piracy

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 10 Apr 2004, 21:00

why do the police care more about piracy than about catching rapists and murderers

???????????????????????????????????????????????

Psych0_Cr1tt3r · Post by **Psych0_Cr1tt3r** » 10 Apr 2004, 21:31

Cuz noone goes to jail on their first Piracy bust, they just get a fine and when they get a fine the officer who bust's you gets a cut.

ICE-VaPa · Post by **ICE-VaPa** » 10 Apr 2004, 21:32

Because it is SA!

Post by **Thrall** » 10 Apr 2004, 23:16

Because it's easier

Screeper · Post by **Screeper** » 10 Apr 2004, 23:48

they DON'T care more about piracy than rapists and murderers etc..

Its like the same question people ask when they get pulled over for speeding "why aren't you out catching murderers rather than lil ole me?"

The cops in the traffic police are very rarely involved in murder cases and vice versa. The cops involved in solving murders and the more serious crimes are not seen on the street with radar guns trapping motorists. Just because you see the cops out with the radars more than you see the serious crimes detectives doesn't mean they're not out there working!!

Have some faith in the police force, we only read the bad news about rubbish cops cos that's what the media like to show us, *shock gasp horror* is a better story than a cop solving a case.

Plus the police involved in stamping out piracy are not supposed to be solving murders and the like, they won't have even trained in that field.
Its like saying to an electronic engineer, "how come you can't fix my car? you're an engineer aren't you?"
Just because SA has a bad serious crime problem does not mean the police force should ignore other crime. It ALL needs to be irradicated.

optimistic post isn't it?

bb_matt · Post by **bb_matt** » 11 Apr 2004, 10:08

Screeper wrote:
optimistic post isn't it?

Very optimistic considering the obvious and frequent corruption/fraud/murder/hi-jacking charges that get levelled at our wonderfully adept police force.

I certainly praise the Police who are trying to make a difference, but unfortunately, they are overshadowed by the ones that are definately not.

Virtually every week in our papers thiers scandals involving our Police force - admitedly, it's usually up at high level, which is very very worrying.

Do you realise, the only thing protecting the majority of middle to upper income earners is our army of security guards ?
Sad, but true.
There's nothing protecting the poor in this country.

I'm sorry, but in the space of 10 years, our police force hasn't improved - yes, agreed, it's because they need to police a much wider area now - but still, the government makes huge arms deals worth billions that have no relevance in our current political climate, yet they throw (in comparison) a meager amount of money for the people trying to protect our citizens !

It's a sad state of affairs and no amount of optimism will change the facts.
We have the highest rape and murder rate in the world.

In fact, our murder rate is higher than freakin' Columbia !

I sound pessimistic, but I'm not, I'm being realistic.

To add some optimism, this problem CAN be turned around if the ANC FATCATS !!! that "govern" our country get of thier lazy GRAVY TRAIN ARSES and start WORKING !

Hmmmphf - everyone vote for the only option we have at an official opposition (crap that it is) and maybe we'll stand a chance.

Psych0_Cr1tt3r · Post by **Psych0_Cr1tt3r** » 11 Apr 2004, 10:22

Screeper wrote:they DON'T care more about piracy than rapists and murderers etc..

Its like the same question people ask when they get pulled over for speeding "why aren't you out catching murderers rather than lil ole me?"

The cops in the traffic police are very rarely involved in murder cases and vice versa. The cops involved in solving murders and the more serious crimes are not seen on the street with radar guns trapping motorists. Just because you see the cops out with the radars more than you see the serious crimes detectives doesn't mean they're not out there working!!

Have some faith in the police force, we only read the bad news about rubbish cops cos that's what the media like to show us, *shock gasp horror* is a better story than a cop solving a case.

Plus the police involved in stamping out piracy are not supposed to be solving murders and the like, they won't have even trained in that field.
Its like saying to an electronic engineer, "how come you can't fix my car? you're an engineer aren't you?"
Just because SA has a bad serious crime problem does not mean the police force should ignore other crime. It ALL needs to be irradicated.

optimistic post isn't it?

Be that as it may, you must consider the ratio of prison punishment for piracy over punishment for stealing money with equal value.

Screeper · Post by **Screeper** » 11 Apr 2004, 13:50

put my head on a block with my post didn't i ?

You're both correct and i won't even try and argue that our police force doesn't need a kick in the pants (a bit like the powers above them).
However i don't think the police care more about piracy than murder etc.. like da_ripper suggests.

What Psych0_Cr1tt3r says is grim tho, i can only imagine that the people done for pircay are delivered harsher sentences because of the powers behind the courts pushing against pircay. ie. Microsoft etc..
You think that could be the reason? Its certainly not fair but that may be why we see irregular sentencing.

Starkiller · Post by **Starkiller** » 11 Apr 2004, 14:52

I was just thinking about the police not making any raids on people that sell pirated goods. Well how about we start our own 'piracy police' firm where WE and the police raid people/firms/stalls that sell pirated goods, and arrest/fine them. That way piracy shold come down quite a bit. I am sure that the people that work on the PC FORMAT magazine will give us their support as well as Nu Metro and Sterkinekor (movies) and also the software developers!

We should stand up against piracy NOW and make sure that these people know that they are stealing money from the products developers and/or publishers when they sell pirated goods!

Psych0_Cr1tt3r · Post by **Psych0_Cr1tt3r** » 11 Apr 2004, 14:58

Starkiller wrote:I was just thinking about the police not making any raids on people that sell pirated goods. Well how about we start our own 'piracy police' firm where WE and the police raid people/firms/stalls that sell pirated goods, and arrest/fine them. That way piracy shold come down quite a bit. I am sure that the people that work on the PC FORMAT magazine will give us their support as well as Nu Metro and Sterkinekor (movies) and also the software developers!

We should stand up against piracy NOW and make sure that these people know that they are stealing money from the products developers and/or publishers when they sell pirated goods!

They do, the problem is they need proof. They cant just bust someones door down, they need a warrant.

Starkiller · Post by **Starkiller** » 11 Apr 2004, 15:03

Then we set up a phone number where people can say that someone they know has got pirated goods. Then we get the warrant and arrest the person/people!

Psych0_Cr1tt3r · Post by **Psych0_Cr1tt3r** » 11 Apr 2004, 15:08

There is an organisation (Cant remember name) where you can report illegal software copying, but they arent going to go storming just because you sed so. First there needs to be an investigation and such.

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 12 Apr 2004, 23:34

i had no idea this was such a heated debate

yes i under stand what you say about only bad things getting in the paper. but why do peple pirate goods (majority of people)

cause companies like microsoft rip us off. bill gates doesn't need any more money. in fact he could probably pay the retirement funds of every microsoft employ and still be rich.

what gets me though is the music industry. music is so expensive.
could they not even lower the price of SA music during SA music week.

who wants to pay r150 for a cd with one decent song.

bb_matt · Post by **bb_matt** » 13 Apr 2004, 07:57

If you guys want to waste your time fighting piracy, that's your perogative.Personally, I'm more interested in looking after myself and making a living.

Piracy is about the least important thing in my life.
It means absolutely nothing in a country like ours.

What I'm concerned about is having to look out my gate into the street before opening it. Having to double check the area every single time I enter my gate, just in case. Living in a suburb where there's a hijacking every week - like most of you do - well, someone copying a DVD suddenly becomes a whole lot less important.

In fact, horrible to you as it may sound, in a country with 30 to 40% unemployment, illegal DVD sales are providing families with food and shelter.

Maybe you will lead the cops to someone selling illegal DVD's - some poor dude on the side of the road - well, he gets busted and his family doesn't eat. Simple as that. How would you feel then ?

This is a developing country and issues like piracy should really take a back seat - let whoever the watchdog bodies are handle it and simply don't buy pirated goods. That's all you really need to do. The guys that the watchdog bodies go after are the big boys, not the little guy on the street trying to earn money any way he can. Rather that than him breaking into your house and stealing stuff.

In a first world country, these issues take on more importance, but in a country ravaged by aids, unemployment and crime, they mean very little.

That's my 2 cents on the issue.

Post by **Y0da** » 13 Apr 2004, 08:44

bb_matt have you ever considered that piracy might eventually put YOU out of a job? The way things are going more and more software companies are withdrawing from software projects as it's just not worth it. So if we don't start doing something about it now, the whole pc market will eventually come tumbling down with serious consequenses for everyone in the IT industry. I guess you are also one of those people that refuse to vote coz it's not going to change anything.

AngryRabbit · Post by **AngryRabbit** » 13 Apr 2004, 09:19

bb_matt wrote:If you guys want to waste your time fighting piracy, that's your perogative.Personally, I'm more interested in looking after myself and making a living.

Piracy is about the least important thing in my life.
It means absolutely nothing in a country like ours.

What I'm concerned about is having to look out my gate into the street before opening it. Having to double check the area every single time I enter my gate, just in case. Living in a suburb where there's a hijacking every week - like most of you do - well, someone copying a DVD suddenly becomes a whole lot less important.

In fact, horrible to you as it may sound, in a country with 30 to 40% unemployment, illegal DVD sales are providing families with food and shelter.

Maybe you will lead the cops to someone selling illegal DVD's - some poor dude on the side of the road - well, he gets busted and his family doesn't eat. Simple as that. How would you feel then ?

This is a developing country and issues like piracy should really take a back seat - let whoever the watchdog bodies are handle it and simply don't buy pirated goods. That's all you really need to do. The guys that the watchdog bodies go after are the big boys, not the little guy on the street trying to earn money any way he can. Rather that than him breaking into your house and stealing stuff.

In a first world country, these issues take on more importance, but in a country ravaged by aids, unemployment and crime, they mean very little.

That's my 2 cents on the issue.

This is the most narrow-minded, stupid and thoughtless post I have ever read. If I had more time before my next lecture, I would pick it apart and explain to you, bb_matt, just how wrong you are.

You remind me very much of the smartly dressed business man I saw the other day. He was walking along the pavement and threw a piece of rubbish on the ground. I went up to him and told him that he appeared to have mistakedly dropped something, so he casually turned and said
"I'm creating a job."
and walked away.

Wow, if only we had more people like that in the world, imagine what a wonderfull world we would live in.

bb_matt · Post by **bb_matt** » 13 Apr 2004, 10:26

Oh give me a break !

Can you not SEE the country around you ?
Do you not SEE the unemployed everywhere you look ?

I never said I condone the practice, merely the fact that it DOES PROVIDE MONEY FOR SOMEONE !

Yes, you may sit in your luxury with your computer and internet connection like me, but at least I'm aware that there are people out there who are so desperate, it's not even funny.

You may feel like the good moral citizen when you've got a full stomach and a roof over your head, protecting the world from those nasty pirates, but if you were out on the street without a penny to your name, I'm sure your opinion would differ greatly.

I can explain to you right now, just how WRONG you are with your totally thoughtless opinion on my post. You obviously read what you wanted to and didn't look any deeper into the situation.

I personally do not see Hollywood or the music industry suffering aside from a small drop in profits. These are just simple consumer goods, they are NOT A LIFE AND DEATH MATTER !

Yes, you could turn around and say that the factories that produce the DVD's and CD's will suffer if piracy gets out of control, but on the same token, you could also say that the profit margin of the huge media conglomerates is so dis-proportional it's a disgrace, compared to what they pay the actual artists.

Wow, if only we had more people like that in the world, imagine what a wonderfull world we would live in.

The analogy of "dropping a piece of paper" is such an idiotic statement as it has absolutely no connection with what I was refering to.

Yes, piracy is an issue but I'm pointing out just how small an issue it really is in comparison with what REALLY needs to be done in this country. Right now, piracy is at least providing work for people that otherwise wouldn't have any.

Yes, it's wrong, of course it is, but it's REALITY, so wake up and smell the coffee !

It's obvious to me that the current distribution of media no longer works effectively. The products are overpriced, overhyped and oversold, especially in developing countries.

But it really doesn't matter. There are just so many other pressing issues at hand.

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 13 Apr 2004, 10:48

Reality check. If those ppl were to stop selling pirate software the SA currency would propably do a tad better and thus the export market would be a tad better. Thus it would in turn create jobs again. That together with the fact that the employment equity laws restrict companies to such an extent that they would rather remain small than go and creat a massive ammount of jobs accentuate the Government's inability to actively do something regarding poverty and job creating. So one might say that our wonderfully Democratic Government has shot us all in the foot with it's attempts of creating equality within the workplace by its laws regarding this.

The fact of the matter is that those ppl on the sidewalks selling stuff has a higher propability of getting a job than white or indian ppl have so why don't I see any indian or white ppl on the sidewalk selling piratd goods. You see it is all about how you think. Everything depends on the perspective with which you look at it. You have looked with a sympathetic eye towards these ppl and I looked with a political eye. Now see what a diffirence that makes towards our answers of the same problem. Piracy in your eyes is a good thing when looking sympathetically to those who does not have a job and really need the money. My viewpoint (a political one) shows how much a drain piracy is on the government while trailing of the subject like a true poletitian would. The thing is that I am looking further than my nose whereas by piracy ceasing to be a problem we would be able to boost the economy, increase SA's export strength and create jobs for a multitude of ppl. So I am not thinking of one poor soul standing on the corner of the street selling pirated goods but many ppl that used to have jobs and are now retrenched. It would give these poor souls that are in fact victums of economic disasters within our country a new hope of actually getting an income.

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 13 Apr 2004, 10:49

I think I said enouth there.

Post by **Y0da** » 13 Apr 2004, 11:03

So bb_matt, you're saying we should just let the piracy issue slide coz it creates job for poor underprivileged people? Wake up dude! Those other crimes that you are more worried about also creates jobs for these people so we should just ignore all crime coz shame at least the thieves and killers and rapists are generating an income out of it.

BTW, this is a IT related forum, and piracy is IT related hence the participation in these discussion.

Post by **-ASSASSIN-** » 13 Apr 2004, 11:55

If those ppl were to stop selling pirate software the SA currency would propably do a tad better and thus the export market would be a tad better. Thus it would in turn create jobs again.

I dont quite agree.... with RuadRauFlessa....

If we use the assumption that by ceasing the sale of pirated goods the SA Rand will strengthen (i.e. 'be a tad better'), then this means our exports will look more expensive in the eyes of the global market (the same product that cost them $20, now costs $30 (if the rand appreciated by 30% with respect to the dollar)). This will in turn cause exports to fall, and local industries will pass this burden onto their workforce by kindly informing them that they "will not be requiring their services anymore". 8O

The only thing that might be 'a tad better' is the situation with the imports, whereby cheaper foreign goods will be imported, therby destroying any possible chance that local industries had of surviving.... In any case, its a lose-lose situation, so they might as well continue selling

.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 13 Apr 2004, 12:13

ok so bb_matt thinks piracy can help.....well WRONG!!!

Piracy is linked hand in hand with black markets... this leads to the underminding of our rand as companies all over S.A have to compete against lower prices, hence making our major industries lose profit..

A loss in profit then leads to companies having to have to cut back on resouces.

RESOUCES = labour = employees........hence our HUGE UMEMPLOYMENT RATE!!!

So in the end, yes for the few individuals they manage to make a quick buck here and there, but ultimately for the good of S.A.....our country SUFFERS

I feel very strongly about this and my reasoning above is based on FACT.
The benefits of University ECONOMICS.... go study man.

Not to mention the effect on Imports/Exports.....don't go there

freakno1 · Post by **freakno1** » 13 Apr 2004, 13:04

AngryRabbit · Post by **AngryRabbit** » 13 Apr 2004, 14:11

Well said RuadRauFlessa and Snail. If I had more time, that would have been pretty much what I would have said.

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 13 Apr 2004, 14:19

-ASSASSIN- wrote:
If those ppl were to stop selling pirate software the SA currency would propably do a tad better and thus the export market would be a tad better. Thus it would in turn create jobs again.
I dont quite agree.... with RuadRauFlessa.... If we use the assumption that by ceasing the sale of pirated goods the SA Rand will strengthen (i.e. 'be a tad better'), then this means our exports will look more expensive in the eyes of the global market (the same product that cost them $20, now costs $30 (if the rand appreciated by 30% with respect to the dollar)). This will in turn cause exports to fall, and local industries will pass this burden onto their workforce by kindly informing them that they "will not be requiring their services anymore". 8O

The only thing that might be 'a tad better' is the situation with the imports, whereby cheaper foreign goods will be imported, therby destroying any possible chance that local industries had of surviving.... In any case, its a lose-lose situation, so they might as well continue selling .

Did I or did I not say that I am looking from the viewpoint of a poletitian. That would be an average South African Poletitian.