Upgrading.. Need Pro Help..

sutrax · Post by **sutrax** » 11 Jun 2004, 14:45

Hi evryone who can "hopefully" help me on this.

Im going to upgrade and i have a few bucks to spend but i want to go for value and (lasting)performance.

I can get a the following CPU's at these prices, but which 1 is the best?
Please, Tamsin.. Christo..??

AMD Athlon XP boxed (64 bit fsb 800mhz) 1024k 2800mhz = R1750
Intel Pentium4 512k boxed fsb 800mhz HT 2800mhz = R1540
P4 2.8GHz 800Mhz FSB .09u 1mb cache Prescott = R1526

I dont trust AMD, coz ive seen them overheat..

Ihsahn · Post by **Ihsahn** » 11 Jun 2004, 14:47

If this is a gaming machine, go for AMD
If this is a business machine go for Intel
Or you could listen to me and go for AMD anyway, that you should

sutrax · Post by **sutrax** » 11 Jun 2004, 14:54

and what if it overheats?

and what about memory? is it fast enough?

Ihsahn · Post by **Ihsahn** » 11 Jun 2004, 14:57

It wont overheat, if you give it ample cooling, as for memory, its fine, have you read any PCFormats reviews on the 64-bit AMD, all good reviews, i have a 64bit-AMD and it runs like a dream, that it does

Royal-Falcon · Post by **Royal-Falcon** » 11 Jun 2004, 15:02

I agree, AMD rocks especially if its for games.

However, I dont have anything against Intel. I never had any problems with it.

Based on exoerience, go for INTEL (Prescott),
based on Knowledge go for AMD

Ihsahn · Post by **Ihsahn** » 11 Jun 2004, 15:04

Royal-Falcon wrote:I agree, AMD rocks especially if its for games.

However, I dont have anything against Intel. I never had any problems with it.

Based on exoerience, go for INTEL (Prescott),
based on Knowledge go for AMD

Wise answer, that it is

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 11 Jun 2004, 15:11

I dont trust AMD, coz ive seen them overheat..

Guess what? I've seen one or 2 Intel systems overheat in my time too... any CPU will run hot, if you don't have a sufficient HSF or other form of efficient cooling. Some of the earlier AMD K7 revisions did run a bit warm, but I can certainly vouch for the fact that they seem to be fine now.

I like Intel CPU's (as can be seen from the fact that I own a P4), but I'm no fanboy. If a client wants an AMD, then that's what they get. I have to admit though, that at lower-end to mid-range price points, AMD CPU's offer way better value for money. I mean, if you have the choice between a Celeron or equivalently priced AMD Athlon, you'd be dumb to buy the Intel.

Don't buy a Prescott P4... they run pretty warm! Intel's standard HSF that you get with the chip just barely copes with the heat the chip generates.
Out of the 2 Intel chips you mention, I'd rather go for the 2.8 Northwood. Not only is it cooler running, but it overclocks quite nicely too!

I remember reading (on Tom's Hardware Guide), that the Prescott P4's will only really begin to come into their own, once they start to scale above about 4 GHz. Besides, Intel are now scrapping Socket T (LGA 775) in favour of the new dual-core Dothan chips, so it's being said that Prescott is a little 'dead in the water'.

Although, I wouldn't write off the AMD Athlon64 2800+... that's also one heck of a good CPU. Plus, seeing as it's 64 and 32-bit, whereas the P4's are 32-bit only, you could say that the Athlon64 is much more 'future-proof.'

sutrax · Post by **sutrax** » 11 Jun 2004, 15:15

Ok.. Experience. Knowledge??

I want to know which 1 is better.. what would you prefer? I want to play the latest games and the main feature that i want is performance..

Ive seen AMD overheat and ive seen AMD struggle under heavy loads where an Intel in the same class doesn't give any problems.. and that is with a few different AMD's and Intel's..

Dom · Post by **Dom** » 11 Jun 2004, 18:46

sutrax wrote:Ok.. Experience. Knowledge??

I want to know which 1 is better.. what would you prefer? I want to play the latest games and the main feature that i want is performance..

Ive seen AMD overheat and ive seen AMD struggle under heavy loads where an Intel in the same class doesn't give any problems.. and that is with a few different AMD's and Intel's..

Well, from what I've read and seen, the Athlon64 chips are very good... but I'm saying that from knowledge I have of them. I've never actually used an Athlon64. I have a P4 2.8C (Northwood) and can't complain. Even overclocked, my chip runs no hotter than if it at stock speed.

So, from experience, I would say a P4 2.8C would be the way to go. Of course the Intel chips have HT, which the AMD's don't.

All I was trying to say though is that AMD chips are certainly more than decent currently.

Post by **Iceblade** » 11 Jun 2004, 19:59

sutrax wrote:Ok.. Experience. Knowledge??

I want to know which 1 is better.. what would you prefer? I want to play the latest games and the main feature that i want is performance..

Ive seen AMD overheat and ive seen AMD struggle under heavy loads where an Intel in the same class doesn't give any problems.. and that is with a few different AMD's and Intel's..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When did you see this AMD overheat, in 1980?
My friends AMD 64 3200+ runs cooler than a P4 2800

Really AMD had overheating issues back in the olden days, and if you have seen one overheat recently, it was fiited wrong

AMD rulez in games, AMD 64 is your DADDY

Pino · Post by **Pino** » 11 Jun 2004, 20:10

sutrax wrote:Ok.. Experience. Knowledge??

I want to know which 1 is better.. what would you prefer? I want to play the latest games and the main feature that i want is performance..

Ive seen AMD overheat and ive seen AMD struggle under heavy loads where an Intel in the same class doesn't give any problems.. and that is with a few different AMD's and Intel's..

JY PRAAT 100% SUIWER ****!. I have never seen a AMD overheat! well they did go a bit warm in the old days like Iceblade said.Go for AMD!.

Fishzn · Post by **Fishzn** » 14 Jun 2004, 20:34

Well AMD's previous CPU's like the thunderbird, palomino etc. use to run a bit hot with stock cooling esp if they were overclocked! But with the release of the Bartons, they promised to sort that problem out, it wasn't really seen with the barton core but with some good aftermarket cooler, those CPU's could hit really good speeds and ran nice temps idle!

However with the release of the 64's AMD made another leap forward they got rid of the extremely annoying heat issues, now it is not an issue anymore! They run normal temps for their clock speeds and can be overclocked a bit with standard HSF, so from those CPU's you asked about, i'd reckon you go buy that AMD 64 2800+, as it is sufficient for games, work etc. A rather good CPU!

DJT · Post by **DJT** » 14 Jun 2004, 21:13

dom wrote:Guess what? I've seen one or 2 Intel systems overheat in my time too...

Compared to hundreds of AMD processors.

Memphis_Raines · Post by **Memphis_Raines** » 14 Jun 2004, 21:26

Hey Guys

I've built a pc for a friend of mine and his cpu temp was 35 deg idle and about 41 under load. He has an AMD XP 2000+. Even though it isn't overclocked it has a stock cooler and these temps are fine. I would never overclock any cpu even an Intel without some hectic aftermarket cooling.

Fishzn · Post by **Fishzn** » 14 Jun 2004, 21:35

DJT wrote:
dom wrote:Guess what? I've seen one or 2 Intel systems overheat in my time too...
Compared to hundreds of AMD processors.

DJT, could you please verify this hundreds that have overheated! Prevoius Amd cores were known to run a little hot as i pointed out in my previous post but never have hundreds overheated!

Many ppl make fallacious statements without an inch of research or proof, they just take what they heard from some other noob and perpetuate the stupid opinion! Instead of arguing over how many previous processors had heat problems, TRY ANSWERING the guys question! If you can't then why bother replying in the topic and going OFF-TOPIC!!!

Memphis_Raines · Post by **Memphis_Raines** » 14 Jun 2004, 21:46

I agree. Half the time one guy says his cpu cooked and then the guy who heard it repeats it and so on and so forth. But if the noob actually put on some thermal grease, installed the fan correctly, tried to overclock correctly then nobody would say anything. The percentage of actual damaged cpu's that come from the factory is laughable. Amd would never reliease something if they knew it didn't work, the same with any company. I think its because AMD's are cheaper noobs tend to buy em blow em and ***** about em. Lest we forget who won the 64 bit cpu race. I haven't even heard of a AMD64 burn yet.

MrBean · Post by **MrBean** » 17 Jun 2004, 21:05

sutrax wrote:Hi evryone who can "hopefully" help me on this.

Im going to upgrade and i have a few bucks to spend but i want to go for value and (lasting)performance.

I can get a the following CPU's at these prices, but which 1 is the best?

Question is, best for what?

What are you main use of the PC going to be?

Lest we forget who won the 64 bit cpu race

Point is, in current applications A64+(stock or heavily overclocked) must still prove to me it can beat my Northwood 3.2 overclocked cpu. And there is no stock A64+ chip that will significantly beat the comparable stock P4 in gaming or multimedia benchmarks. And for once, the P4 is quite a bit cheaper per given speed unit as the a64+.

It all depends what the guy wants to use the cpu for, gaming, multimedia, or both. For gaming, go A64+, for multimedia, go P4 Northwood (stay away from Prescott), and if you do 50/50 both applications, any one of these chips will work just fine. There is really no significant difference in performance between A64+ 2800 or 2.8gig Northwood.

Active temperature control and failure prevention issues is in place for both Northwood and A64+ at this point in time, so the notorious melting of Amd cpu cores is something of the past.

Br,
MrBean.

Post by **Iceblade** » 19 Jun 2004, 00:00

Fishzn wrote: Many ppl make fallacious statements without an inch of research or proof, they just take what they heard from some other noob and perpetuate the stupid opinion! Instead of arguing over how many previous processors had heat problems, TRY ANSWERING the guys question! If you can't then why bother replying in the topic and going OFF-TOPIC!!!

So true

MrBean · Post by **MrBean** » 19 Jun 2004, 11:45

Iceblade wrote:
Fishzn wrote: Many ppl make fallacious statements without an inch of research or proof, they just take what they heard from some other noob and perpetuate the stupid opinion! Instead of arguing over how many previous processors had heat problems, TRY ANSWERING the guys question! If you can't then why bother replying in the topic and going OFF-TOPIC!!!
So true

Iceblade, I am not being rude, but you are one of these guys. Problem with a question like this is the inevitable flaming that goes hand in hand with it.

I have found that 80%+ of the Fans that punt a specific cpu is doing it on the back of what many review-sites claim....either Intel is crap or AMD is so bad.

Why don't you guys go out there and play with both cpu's, and then you will discover what good cpu's both really are! Play with it yourself, and make up your own mind.....

In my case for example, I know that I will be able to get significant boost in my 3dMark01 score of i were to use A64+ cpu......I just had to prove to myself that I could get 26k with a P4......on the other hand, if you bench mainly Aquamark or 3dMark03, the P4 kills the Amd.....

And no, I am not riding on the back of some obscure review site out there.....go and visit the PlanetMars Benching Forums to see what I am talking about.

Point is, if you don't have experience, don't diss this cpu or boost that cpu...because 1/2 of the time you're talking ****. You have 2 choices today, a64+, or P4 Northwood.....and for general PC usage, don't matter which one you get. Both will do a speedy, reliable job.

As I said before, if your aim is mainly gaming, go A64+ (not XP), A64+...if you do mainly Multimedia, go Intel....and if you do 50/50 games/multimedia, any one is just fine.

The guy asked for pro advice in his question, not fanboy-ism.

Sorry for the rant, just had to get it of my chest.

Br,
MrBean.

naughty · Post by **naughty** » 19 Jun 2004, 14:07

well one thing that i agree on is that intel needs to be defended - the guys who really know hardware are fully aware that intel makes great processors and would never ever call them "****" - while those knowledgeable people would be against intels monopolistic policies as a company but they could never ever be able to point out flaws in intels design - but management issues of a company is not something that we can do much about so why bother

even the prescott heat problems are not a big issue since amd had that exact same problem - remember the 2200+ which was the suckiest t-bred chip ever - and only a redesign was able to bring amd back into the running - so yeah each chip has its advantages and disadvantages

neither chip is bad and you need to look at the circumstances within which any of those are going to be used - personally i use amd but if i decide to upgrade and intel sells what im after then id buy the intel rather than the amd - buy what is better for the use you make of it

creating a brand preference is like "cutting off your nose to spite your face" - since you are likely to miss out on the good features that the competitor offers - instead of being subjective here we should learn to be a bit objective in our choices - thus we will all be less partisan and get along better

Post by **Iceblade** » 19 Jun 2004, 14:51

MrBean wrote: Iceblade, I am not being rude, but you are one of these guys. Problem with a question like this is the inevitable flaming that goes hand in hand with it.

Why don't you guys go out there and play with both cpu's, and then you will discover what good cpu's both really are! Play with it yourself, and make up your own mind.....

Point is, if you don't have experience, don't diss this cpu or boost that cpu...

As I said before, if your aim is mainly gaming, go A64+ (not XP), A64+...if you do mainly Multimedia, go Intel....and if you do 50/50 games/multimedia, any one is just fine.

The guy asked for pro advice in his question, not fanboy-ism.

Sorry for the rant, just had to get it of my chest.

Br,
MrBean.

Thanks , not rude, don't hope so

If you have been around to read my first ever post on a AMD / Intel topic, you would know that I said just that, I had tested both

Yeah I was Intel Mad for years and did not believe in AMD over these"heat" issues.
A good friend R@zor, forced(basically) me to buy the AMD counterpart of my Intel chip.I had a 2.4 Intel so I went the 2400+ route.

It true, AMD kicks buttom in games but Intel is a work horse

So no Fanboy, I was before I had my eyes pealed open by a friend

And I don't wanna tell the story over in every post I make

Takes to long

So yes now I like AMD, because I still play games alot, if the wife permits me

ROMZOTWA · Post by **ROMZOTWA** » 06 Jul 2004, 09:28

HI Guys

I Love PC's but canâ€™t decide which is better, that is why I own a couple.
I have an AMD62 3000+ which is a very good machine. The performance
is fantastic and â€œNO HEAT PROBLEMSâ€. I also have an P4 2.8E Prescott
which is just as good but only have a â€œlittleâ€ HEAT PROMLEM.
Both Machines runs exactly the same (GAMES,APPS,ect).

You must just remember CPU is not only factor in performance.
There is other factors which contributes to a MEAN MACHINE.

One large factor is the M-Board ,you canâ€™t expect both INTEL & AMD to compete with an â€œ$%&#!!â€ M-Board. So if you buy AMD64 or P4 just get
something which can support it with speed ( PAY MORE THAN R2.50).

Other factor is graphics card, if you can afford something better, BUY IT.

Cooling is also a large factor, donâ€™t expect that an cheap R200 300w casing will do the job. Same goes for CPU FAN.
If you have best CPU & M-BOARD â€œGETâ€ the best casing
which provides best cooling. That is also why I could sort out my P4
heating problem.

So at the end all comes to â€œ DO I LIKE BMW or MERCEDES â€œ

Stay COOL
ROMZOTWA
____________________________________
P4 2.8E Prescott (Clocked to 3.2Ghz)
DFI LANPARTY PRO875B M-Board
512 DUAL DDR400
THERMALTAKE VOLCANO 11 CPU Cooler
THERMALTAKE V7000C casing
____________________________________
AMD 64 3000+
ASUS K8V M-Board
1030 DUAL DDR400
STOCK COOLER
Antec PERFORMANCE II casing
____________________________________

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