ATI... erm, AMD vs nVidia!

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 23 Feb 2005, 15:58

What do you mean cooler..... I'm not fighting, I just want to know temps. And the 6800nu is actually a great buy, if you know if the extra tx pipes can be unlocked, plus it's 256bit for about 2500..... Okay I'm talking AGP..... so you're most likely saying PCIE. The Leadtek A400TDH (AGP) you'll see that on the box where it says 12 tx pipes, it might be a sticker you can pull off, and you'll see it says 16 instead, it's not a joke, I'm telling you it's the truth. Secondly, even by unlocking the extra pipes and ocing the card my temps never went above 58C.....

lancelot · Post by **lancelot** » 23 Feb 2005, 16:48

I do not know what all the fuss is about, there is nothing better than a Geoforce 6800GT, 256.

whipme · Post by **whipme** » 23 Feb 2005, 16:58

to prove a point with the heat difference between ATI and Nvidia, just look
at the difference in size of the heatsink on the 6600 cards and the X700.
i suppose it's negligible if you spend some extra cash and get yourself a
Zalman vga cooler, but then your price difference is filled again by cooling.

i myself would love to get a 6800GT pci-express card, but the only
way to get it at a reasonable price is to get it from the US,
but that is not as easy as it seems.

NinjaTic · Post by **NinjaTic** » 23 Feb 2005, 17:02

Hey Voodoo how do you unlock those extra 4 pipes on the 6800?

The major difference between the 6600 & 6600GT when compared to the 6800, 6800GT and 6800Ultra is the type of memory used on the boards. The 6600 range has 128bit whereas the 6800 range is fitted with 256bit (the GT and Ultra having GDDR3!) This constitutes to about a double in speed from the 6600's to the 6800's. the other obvious difference is the fact that the 6600's have only 8 pipelines, where as the 6800 has 12, the 6800GT and 6800Ultra having 16!

If you can save up a bit more cash you will be very much happier with the 6800 range of cards (the 6800 is very good value for money). As for the new ATI midrange, they are really below average, and I'm quite sure you'll be more happier with a Radeon 9600XT as opposed to a X700 or X600.

One last point, try and have a look at the 6800LE, this is a lot better than the 6600GT as it has 256bit memory, but unfortunately is only fitted with 8 pipelines (the same as the 6600GT however). You should be able to pick it up at an affordable price too.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 23 Feb 2005, 21:03

Shouldn't new cards be out soon anyway? Prices will drop hugely when they eventually hit the shelves.

Word has it high-end ATI's will ship with 512Mb RAM, even the current X850XT PE is said 2 get an overhaul boasting 512Mb Ram in as soon as a week internationally.

Good news... But @ what price?

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 24 Feb 2005, 07:13

Look I've said it a few times before, and it came from one of the marketing dudes from ATI.... If PCIE is well utilised, you won't need a lot of memory. Even with todays games you can sit with 128mb and it should be enough...... and if ATI is bringing out this new flagship what's the point of giving it 512mb...is it only so that people glare and see 512 ooooh yes I'm gonna get it or is it because it really would increase performance......

This whole thing is a joke, and try as much as you like.... we will loose tho whole time, cause tech does not stand still, I just pitty the developers trying to keep up with software utilising the full potencial of current hardware....

Tolklein · Post by **Tolklein** » 24 Feb 2005, 07:43

Oh what a twisted web we weave. I'm just glad we have two video card giants battling it out for best performance and highest sales.

I agree with VoodooProphetII, the whole thing is ridiculous, its all just moving to darn fast, so fast in fact that in a couple of years time the comparisons we made today would be irrelavent because cause a X850XT would be just as useless as anything before it.

whipme · Post by **whipme** » 24 Feb 2005, 18:47

that's true,
but you can't overlook the fact that people will always want the
latest and greatest and that is why they make them.
guys an dcomputers are exactly the same as guys with cars.
it's a "mine is bigger than yours" complex that is genetically programmed
into us guys, and untill we find a way to alter the gene that controlls
penis envy, ATI and Nvidia will release a brand new bigger-than-before
card every six months.

we cannot win, unless our budgets permit.

Dakes · Post by **Dakes** » 24 Feb 2005, 19:05

whipme wrote:that's true,
but you can't overlook the fact that people will always want the
latest and greatest and that is why they make them.
guys an dcomputers are exactly the same as guys with cars.
it's a "mine is bigger than yours" complex that is genetically programmed
into us guys, and untill we find a way to alter the gene that controlls
penis envy, ATI and Nvidia will release a brand new bigger-than-before
card every six months.

we cannot win, unless our budgets permit.

That's not entirely true, ATI's new wonderful cards are usually smaller than that of nVidia and I prefer ATI

whipme · Post by **whipme** » 24 Feb 2005, 19:13

finally, another ATI fan.
a buddy of mine bought a 9800 beginning of last year and
all our Nvidia friends went "oooh, aaaah" but never changed.
i on hte other hand have seen the light and am shuffling costs
around to try fit an X800 into my budget, currently looking at an
HIS X700 for about R2400.

Colin_69 · Post by **Colin_69** » 24 Feb 2005, 19:50

Go to www.megagames.com, go to ATI releases a surprise card, or something like that. Check out the future cards of the king of graphic card producers.

Snakker · Post by **Snakker** » 25 Feb 2005, 01:21

whipme wrote:finally, another ATI fan.
a buddy of mine bought a 9800 beginning of last year and
all our Nvidia friends went "oooh, aaaah" but never changed.
i on hte other hand have seen the light and am shuffling costs
around to try fit an X800 into my budget, currently looking at an
HIS X700 for about R2400.

I just have to say that I'm not a fan-boy AT ALL!! (got the cards to prove it..excuse the pun) I go with who-ever is giving me the best bang for my buck at that time, and if that JUST SO HAPPENS to be the same manufacturer I got my previous part from, so much the better then - I'm rewarding them for continuously producing quality hardware, and everybody wins!

Just to explain: I previously (6 mnths ago) had a Radeon 9800Pro and these were fabulous! Used to laugh at everybody stuck in the 5000-series of Nvidia, and let's face it: these were CRAP!! They couldn't come close to ATI.

When the 6800's appeared, though I KNEW there was a change in the air... These were performing at almost double the speed of the R9800's and that's no small feat!! With a COMPLETELY new core, these cards were flying at even lowish core and memory speeds (relative to x800 speeds)

A month or so later the X800's started appearing, with a far less ambituous approach than NVidia. Rather than redesigning the wheel, ATI sticked with what worked for them, and simply went for raw power through high core and memory speeds (with the downside of increased heat production and consequently high card temperatures)

In benchmarks, the x800 series seems to slightly outrun the 6800's but only just!! Let me tell you this: the guys at ATI were sweating when they saw what Nvidia has come up with in the 6800 series!!! We should be seeing a rather innovative approach to the next series of graphics cards from ATI, as they won't get much more from the x800 core. Also, I don't think they would like to be surprised like this again..

So to conclude as to why I switched to NVidia:

1.) They were offering the cheapest high-end solution: at R2200 (at that time) the 6800nu's were a steal, since it could unlock all 16 pipelines and overclocked performs on a par with the 6800GT. Now THAT's good stuff!!

2.) For me they rose from the ashes. Learnt from their mistakes. The big brother (Nvidia) beaten up by the grown-up and destructive younger brother (ATI) goes training in the woods, and comes back ready to put the youngster in it's place. This kind of technological jump has to count for something!!! And for such great development costs as would have gone into the 6800's they are offering it pretty damn cheap!! On the x800 level, all of them are worse value for money solutions than it's Nvidia counterpart, which is strange since I can't imagine the development costs of the already established ATI technology being higher ?!

3.) NVidia offers more options. Tailored to suit your pocket, Nvidia offers 3 solutions: the plain/vanilla 6800nu with 12pipes (possible to unlock to 16), the 6800GT (most overclock to Ultra levels!) and the 6800Ultra (at higher clock and memory frequencies than GT). The x800's simply come in the pro and XT versions (not going to mention PE's and x850's - the prices get ridiculous!), both more expensive than the 6800GT.

4.) ATI drivers have been optimized. Although this is good, remember that the cards are using "dated" technology which means they have had time to refine it's drivers. Nvidia, however, at the moment has programmers and engineers focussing on driver development to get us both better 3dmark scores (for bragging rights..hehe) and better FPS for games. The point I'm trying to make is there is still alot of room for improvement on the driver level side, meaning that it would not be too far fetched to see 6800's in 2mnths time outperforming the x800 series completely!! There still alot of wholesome goodness locked inside these beasts!!

So whipme, I'd say you'd be a FOOL to go spending R2400 on an X700. Rather go for the 6800nu at around R2500, then unlock to 16pipelines (high success rate reported) and overclock it a bit. That's a pretty cheap ticket into the top-end NVidia market!! 8O

And I score about 11500 in 3dmark03, and 4600 in 3dmark05!! Now let's see your x700 beat that, with or without 256mb ram!!

Post by **Anakha56** » 25 Feb 2005, 06:56

i wouldnt go near the X700 even if it got given to me for free, it is by far ATI's worse performer card, and it has been proven in reviews.

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 25 Feb 2005, 06:57

Snakker.... Those scores are on parr with my A400TDH (6800nu) softmoddded and overclocked..... And I tell you, that card is rock solid, and for the Leadtek brand, even with overclocking and softmod, me temps did not even go up that much 2 - 3C.

I also got me the GT, and those scores you got is also on parr with the GT at stock speeds.... I ripped up up 70K in AM3

http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=621445568

And talking about drivers, check at www.guru3d.com and you'll see the 75.90 drivers, which increase performance, and with full OpenGL 2.0 support....

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 25 Feb 2005, 06:58

Yeah.... Nice post Snakker...

Ive been telling these guys that the X800 is basically a oversouper up old card... Nvidia has a new backbone to build on, ATI still need to design it...

Snakker · Post by **Snakker** » 25 Feb 2005, 10:37

Yep, VoodooProphetII - this IS in fact a Leadtek, and I LOVE the absolutely retro and oversized copper cooler - they didn't even TRY to hide it. Very heavy but it doesn't bother ME, don't know about my cracking motherboard..hehe

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 25 Feb 2005, 11:16

Yep, VoodooProphetII - this IS in fact a Leadtek, and I LOVE the absolutely retro and oversized copper cooler - they didn't even TRY to hide it. Very heavy but it doesn't bother ME, don't know about my cracking motherboard..hehe

Amen to that Snakker.... You said it, and I'll second it, once again... What I liked about what you said......

The point I'm trying to make is there is still alot of room for improvement on the driver level side, meaning that it would not be too far fetched to see 6800's in 2mnths time outperforming the x800 series completely!! There still alot of wholesome goodness locked inside these beasts!!

....And it's gradually happening.....

Still I feel (and know that they won't) that Nvidia must not relax now.... They have this stepping stone on which they can build....

SquattingDog · Post by **SquattingDog** » 25 Feb 2005, 12:01

Don't know if any1 posted something about the new R520 core from ATI. Appartly the core will run at 700Mhz and the Memory at 500Mhz. This chip should be relase at the Cebit show in the next 2-3 weeks.

There also a thing about at The Inquirer

sun_walka · Post by **sun_walka** » 25 Feb 2005, 12:14

VoodooProphetII wrote:Look I've said it a few times before, and it came from one of the marketing dudes from ATI.... If PCIE is well utilised, you won't need a lot of memory. Even with todays games you can sit with 128mb and it should be enough...... and if ATI is bringing out this new flagship what's the point of giving it 512mb...is it only so that people glare and see 512 ooooh yes I'm gonna get it or is it because it really would increase performance......

Maybe they're looking forward to something that I would like to call "the future"?

sun_walka · Post by **sun_walka** » 25 Feb 2005, 12:37

SquattingDog wrote:Don't know if any1 posted something about the new R520 core from ATI. Appartly the core will run at 700Mhz and the Memory at 500Mhz. This chip should be relase at the Cebit show in the next 2-3 weeks.

There also a thing about at The Inquirer

We speculated that the current X850 wouldn't be able to take the world record from the 6800 in its current form, and we were right. We have had a few titbits land in our lap that suggest the cards ATI will be taking to the event are hand-built and hand-modded with resistors and wires to provide extra voltage to the memory and the processing core. ATI hopes that these super-duper cards will finally be able to reign in the 6800.

Read more: The Inquirer

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 25 Feb 2005, 13:03

Yeh Sun Walka...just keep telling yourself that......

Just kidding... You got a point, which will all be clear to us in due time.. I would like to see what they cooked up this time....

sun_walka · Post by **sun_walka** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:05

All yer answers await you here Prophet...

http://s3.invisionfree.com/TeamLC/index ... try4311582

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:09

Been there, read that......And I still can't see what you all would call the light.....

It's the drivers man....It's always been the drivers....

sun_walka · Post by **sun_walka** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:37

And if it'll always be the drivers till death do us part, what good are Nvidia to anyone might I then ask?

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 25 Feb 2005, 14:48

Nothing in your pc can run without drivers.... and by drivers I mean interface and all.....not just the developement..... But with the interface thing, I know that's more personal choice then anything else...