SP's Grammar thread

[StarPhoenix]

What, in simple terms, is the distinction between "due to" or "owing to"?
At school, I was told to use the latter. Is this always correct or are there exceptions?

[Stuart]

The ultra-pedantic amongst us (rusty, for example, and possibly Stone_Ice) would argue that "due" should never be used as a preposition, but only as an adjective.

So, for example, "the cricket was delayed due to rain" is incorrect, but "the delay in the cricket was due to rain" is acceptable since in the latter example "due" acts as an adjective modifying "delay."

Bit of a moot point, if you ask me. My dad has corrected me on this a hundred times, but in my view "due to" has become so common it should be accepted (and probably is by most people).

[ADT]

So this is like a online-dictionary thingy??

[D3PART3D]

and possibly Stone_Ice

Good idea for a thread SP. English feels like a second language to me lately.

[KALSTER]

This is a very good idea. The quality of my English often nose dives from the already low perch it rests on. I will appreciate any corrections suggested to me. I am Afrikaans, but English is the better of the two languages I speak and the only one I use in a more than everyday simple conversational kind of way.

(No doubt I have already made a few mistakes in the above few sentences )

[rustypup]

caused by = due to
because of = owing to

but it really shouldn't make a difference these days as only a minuscule percentage of the population would feel it necessary to hunt you down and put you to the torch for the abuse of either...

[Anthro]

Living on the Coast makes things easy, my daily operating language (in most cases) is English,
I work in a medical call centre environment, dealing with doctors and their receptionists,
I am shocked at the illiteracy of some people working in the 'professional' world.

[hamin_aus]

I am shocked at the illiteracy of some people working in the 'professional' world.

I always make exceptions for people who speak English as a second language.
There seems to be a bit of a double standard, especially with Afrikaans people as we expect them to be fully bi-lingual here in KZN, while we are a lot more tolerant of Zulu first language people...

I say if English is not your first language you are allowed to make a mess of it occasionally.

My tolerance is however limited to the spoken word.
When typing an email you have a spell checker which also polices your grammar, and if you are too lazy to use it to not look like an illiterate then I have little sympathy for you.

[Anthro]

I say if English is not your first language you are allowed to make a mess of it occasionally.

I envy you actually (since im still on the desktop support section)
In a sense when you only do 'server' support you generally speak to quite intelligent people, however the questions become slightly harder..

[StarPhoenix]

The ultra-pedantic amongst us (rusty, for example, and possibly Stone_Ice) would argue that "due" should never be used as a preposition, but only as an adjective.

So, for example, "the cricket was delayed due to rain" is incorrect, but "the delay in the cricket was due to rain" is acceptable since in the latter example "due" acts as an adjective modifying "delay."

Bit of a moot point, if you ask me. My dad has corrected me on this a hundred times, but in my view "due to" has become so common it should be accepted (and probably is by most people).

You wouldn't think it, but I'm something of a grammar-nazi myself. I noticed this while proofreading our company's website
and being annoyed at errors that some might consider trivial. I have even been accused of nit-picking.
Disclaimer:I make no guarantees that I shall not committ any atrocities against the English language in this or any other thread.

The work that I have been doing has given me a reasonable excuse to spend time reading articles on grammar and punctuation online, though I forget most of it, for example, the distinction between the different types of phrases and clauses
and how to spot them in their natural habitat. I should be paying more attention.

One of the more obvious howlers [to me, at any rate] was the apparently contradictory "...working remotely onsite..."
I needed help with that one.

I may yet take a dictionary, a thesaurus and 'Fowler's Modern English Usage' to work with me, even if I don't everything he says. For example: I am in favour of "elegant variation". Seeing the same set of management buzz-words used throughout
the website grates me more than it probably should, which is when a thesaurus comes in handy.

I agree with jamin that those whose first language is not English [Kalster, you could have fooled me] should be given some
leeway. Most of the time. I am not yet so diplomatic as to want to fire off an email regarding the misuse of a word during
our tea-time gatherings.

According to Microsoft Word, the passive voice is used too often by me.

[KALSTER]

Kalster, you could have fooled me

Thanks.

The thing is that the relatively acceptable level of English I speak is mostly limited to the written format. Some of the words I use quite regularly I have actually heard pronounced only recently or not at all. Often when I hear it pronounced for the first time (usually in videos or movies) I am very glad that it was not me saying it, because I would have made a fool of myself.

An additional but unrelated point: I HATE it when an English person switches over to broken Afrikaans after they have heard me speak, as if they think I won't understand them otherwise. Similarly I think black people hate it (and they should) when someone speaks to them with that condescending accent people use only when they speak to black people.

[hamin_aus]

Some of the words I use quite regularly I have actually heard pronounced only recently or not at all. Often when I hear it pronounced for the first time (usually in videos or movies) I am very glad that it was not me saying it, because I would have made a fool of myself.

You should meet one of the Afrikaans guys I work with... he does this frequently and I give him hell for it...

Some of his most notable attempts at pronunciation:

Epitome he pronounced "epi-toam"
Cumulative was "kew-mew-latiff"

I envy you actually (since im still on the desktop support section)

I spent 5 long years there, brother... I feel your pain

[KALSTER]

Epitome he pronounced "epi-toam"

and I just read it the same way, even while knowing full well how to pronounce it in verbal conversation.

Some words I have been saved from mispronouncing:

meme (thanks Richard Dawkins)
superfluous (thanks Woody Allen)

[Tribble]

What a wonderful thread.

One of my "favourite" sayings is "refer back to". Could hit lecturers when they say that.

I agree about being more lenient towards people who have English as a second language. Goodness knows, my Afrikaans isn't that great. And my Tshwana and Sotho are even worse. (Limited to the likes of Ke Sega borotho ka thipa) But it floors me when someone says "He threw me with a stone." I have a vivid imagination and that one always looks funny in my mind.

[StarPhoenix]

Speaking of mispronunciations, I used to read "mistletoe" as "miss tooly" when I first starting reading of the adventures
of Asterix and thought that Getafix was a "Drud". My pronunciation of certain dinosaur names could also be moderately amusing.

I am confident that I shall find some new material for this thread at work next week.

[Tribble]

Lol we all got words wrong when we were younger.

What I never know is how to pronounce Schedule. Sometimes I use "skedjool" and other times I use "shedjool". Never know which is correct.

[Tribble]

Heeelllp.

Does one say "a useful comment" or "an useful comment"? I know the rule about the "a" or "an" is applied if the word begins with a vowel. You would say "I had an awful day" - so why does "He made an useful comment" sound so wrong? Will have to go and look it up in my text books. Will have to remove the layer of dust first though..... and the cobwebs.....

[hamin_aus]

I also have a problem with "an hotel" - why is it acceptable?

[Tribble]

The "h" is considered silent.

[fallen_angel]

yet you do pronounce the "h"

[hamin_aus]

yet you do pronounce the "h"

Very true.

[Tribble]

Never said that English rules made sense.

[fallen_angel]

they hardly ever do...

[KALSTER]

Well, I refuse to say an hotel. So there!

[wizardofid]

This is way out of my league.I still can't pronounce free and three correctly, instead I say tree have had no complaints yet.Still practice the "th" sound I still sucketh.....