setting up a wireless network over a 30km range

[garp]

Hey all

So here is the story. We have 2 locations, a remote location with no internet access, and CCVT cameras, and the other location, (main office) now....

- We want to be able to access the cameras (all linked to a DVR PC) from the head office, about 30km away

- what is the legal side to setup a wireless network with such a long range.

- If all is okay, how would you go about doing this, (equipment and stuff) the locations are almost perfect for "line of sight" setup, and building a Mini tower is also a possibility

- What would the legality be of broadcasting wireless internet over the remote area, and using 'internet cafe' like software to sell internet to the few farm residents of the area. (on like a monthly pass sorta thing)

[Anthro]

You will need a VANS license to broadcast over a municipal boundary (ie street), there are no loopholes unfortunately.
Why not also ask over at the WUG (Wireless User Groups) based in SA ?
www.wug.za.net
To re-sell see the following as said on a ISP website:

You will NOT be allowed to resell/distribute any bandwidth that we supply to you for wireless networks unless you have a valid license to do so. If we, Telkom, SAIX or ICASA find you are operating without a license then we are legally bound to terminate your account immediately and you will not be entitled to any refunds. Your details will be passed on to the relevant authorities for prosecution.

[UrBaN]

The above quote refers to "bandwidth we supply you" - he is generating his own bandwidth so this doesnt apply. a 30 km link i doable but you will not get sufficient bandwidth for video,and certainly no legally. south african law limits transmission power to 100mW,and even then you need to make sure that the total EIRP (gain) of your system, including cable losses etc,does not exceed 20dBm. I don't see this working I'm afraid. not withoutt a repeater or two.

[garp]

Thanks for the replies, So from what I gather, the reselling of bandwidth is out of the question, without the proper license and all that? Okay that's cool, it was really just an after thought. Our main priority is the cameras, and being able to monitor them off-site.

[SBSP]

Thanks for the replies, So from what I gather, the reselling of bandwidth is out of the question, without the proper license and all that? Okay that's cool, it was really just an after thought. Our main priority is the cameras, and being able to monitor them off-site.

Just get a VANS license and you are sorted.

[UrBaN]

does the VANS license allow unlimited/increased transmission power? if not,he still wont have a working solution...

[SBSP]

does the VANS license allow unlimited/increased transmission power? if not,he still wont have a working solution...

I dont know but a VANS license is not something you just obtain.

You renew the license every year, and its cost is based on your income.
30% of your company has to be BEE.
and i think your minimum turnover has to be 1 Bar.

To stream video for your self using a VANS that you bought is not justifiable.
You have to make it work for you.

Some Wifi' stretch over 50Km's

Cant he use one of those yamamoto guns ?

Hehe i think a yamamotogun is that gun attached to a starcraft Human battle cruser.


I'm talking about a pringles wifi type gun.

[Anthro]

SBSP - whats the cost these days for a VANS license ?

[Screeper]

On the licensing side of things i can't help i'm afraid.

However, I've done some big wifi/cctv installations on the mines around mpumalanga.
Using Mikrotiks and careful alignment of antennae we had very good links (good enough to stream a max of 4 IP cameras per link with very little problems) over about 15km.
30km is easily possible, it just depends on your budget. The biggest setup was a 17 camera system all streaming back to the security offices in the middle of the mine.
Our biggest problems were storms. Lightning and Antennae love each other with a fatal attraction

We also had a link from our offices in Secunda to a doctor surgery in Witbank which is about 80km away. Two hops in the link, of which the longest is just over 35km, if i remember correctly. The link was just for data though so bandwidth is not as important as it is for the above mines that require realtime footage.

If you need more info on how we did it just let me know. I did it all last year so the specs of antenna and mikrotiks are not too fresh in my brain, so will need to look it up.

[Nuke]

30Km is nothing if you have LOS.

Just built a link of 112KM from Pretoria to the other side of Warmbaths. Tested it with a throughput of around 14mpbs in one direction, with latency while speedtest is running of not over 80ms, without load its around 3ms. We used Mikrotik for the link.

Its just a POC link for now, when we put it into production we will swap out some of the antenna's and set it to turbo-A to almost double the speed.

[UrBaN]

Nuke, what DB rating are the antennas? And what transmission power is the router using?

[Nuke]

32db dish on one side, 31 db grid on the other. We use XR5 cards, running at 600mw.(you can go up to 1000mw on some 5Ghz channels)

The signal is around -85dbm. Not great, but we still have to do some work. I have to move the dish, there is a steel pole in its way 1m infront of the dish, and the Warmbaths side also need a dish and a better mounting. It on one of the old army pump-out towers 12m in the air, so its not stable now. I believe we can push it down to around -70 with that.

[UrBaN]

Erm...yea, but that just goes to prove my point.

On a 100mW radio (the legal limit in RSA) using a 24dB Patch antennao on a 6m cable, your EIRP is 36dBm. The legal limit for all countries using the European standards is 23dBm.

I have no doubt that this link works, that's easy. What's difficult is getting it to work legally. This is not a LEGAL link.

[Nuke]

I checked the newest ICASA docs, and it is 1000mw on some 5GHZ channels, I have it in a winmail.dat file, just can't seem to open it. Damn winmailopener crashes the whole time. Here a link to MyBB though http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Wireless/7982.html

Its 100mw on 2.4Ghz.

[UrBaN]

Nuke, Thank you, I wasn't aware of the 1W output on 5.8.

[garp]

Thanks to everyone who has replied!

However I'm still confused as to how one would go about doing this...

Do we need a licence just to have a long distance wireless network, or only if we want to resell wireless internet to the local farm community. (we were discussing this, found that creating a wireless hotspot *A very big one... would probably work best, as there are only about 10 famers on the land)

There seems to be a lot of regulations and restrictions as to outputs of your equipment and all that… who can I contact to find out more about this?

[UrBaN]

ICASA.

[SBSP]

Nuke, Thank you, I wasn't aware of the 1W output on 5.8.

thats why PWUG and the other WUG's run on 5.8 Ghz

[ProtZkroG]

nope SBSP, PTAWUG runs on 5.8ghz because there is so much noise and interference on 2.4ghz. In Pretoria East if i do a scan with a 90 degree sector towards moreleta park over garsfontein I pick up about 80 2.4 AP's/networks. On 5.8ghz I pick up about 12 that are not PTAWUG.

We find that setting output power on radios lower than 18dbm (100mW) generally works better - better signal strength, quality and speed. There is a general misconception that more power equals more speed and better signal. You need to find the sweet spot and play around with lower power settings to achieve the best speeds.


www.ptawug.co.za

[garp]

Well the network has been installed, and there is a working link between the 2 locations, however the link seems to drop out every so often for no apparent reason. ProtZkroG, your comment about the output power is an interesting fact, and possibly what is causing problems.

[Nuke]

Whats your signal? Maybe post a screenshot of the status tab where you can see ccq/noice floor etc of the station side.

[garp]

I will try get my friend (the one doing the actual installation) to get some screen shots