PCF August Question

Post by **KillerByte** » 03 Jun 2008, 09:17

Do Anti-Piracy Measures Affect You?

UrBaN · Post by **UrBaN** » 03 Jun 2008, 09:39

I think the people most affected by logical anti-piracy measures are the counterfeiters. Sure, there are some horrific examples - Steam comes to mind - but in general they are there for a valid purpose. If done unobtrusively (ie. not requiring updating every week etc.) the use of anti-piracy measures is acceptable, if unfortunate.

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 03 Jun 2008, 09:40

yes.

i get why they're there, just not the insistence on using them when the only people they affect are legitimate users...

the morally corrupt cesspool of snot-nosed gits out there who feel that their human rights include games for free are not going to stop, regardless of how much 'protection' is put in place...

the sad thing is that it is rarely the developer, but the publisher, who determines what, if any, protections are used... which often results in some or other release issue, (a good case in point is breed... the publisher took a working product, ham-fisted the protection into place and then proceeded to make certain other 'refinements' which produced a completely unplayable product...)

admittedly, i only have issue with certain systems, (starforce and RIAA's rootkit and region stupidity ranking the top of the list).
[size=0]spelling demonm, get thee behind me![/size]

D3PART3D · Post by **D3PART3D** » 03 Jun 2008, 09:41

They affect me, but not the Pirates!

Post by **Anakha56** » 03 Jun 2008, 10:14

KillerByte wrote:Do Anti-Piracy Measures Affect You?

OT but is that question worded correctly? For some reason it sounds clumsy...

Just me being silly...

What Rusty said...

Firestrm_ZA · Post by **Firestrm_ZA** » 03 Jun 2008, 10:15

The measures that are meant for the pirates are shown to hinder the paying user rather than pirates.

D3PART3D · Post by **D3PART3D** » 03 Jun 2008, 10:17

KB is an English major, so I guess you're just being silly

Besides, Rusty would have crucified him.

Mow · Post by **Mow** » 03 Jun 2008, 10:48

Im all for improving online activation systems. But against CD based anti piracy. The games rights belong to you , protect it game publishers. The cd however belongs to me . If i would like to make an iso to protect my original cd's I should be able to without the need to run a crack.

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:05

Mow wrote:Im all for improving online activation systems. But against CD based anti piracy. The games rights belong to you , protect it game publishers. The cd however belongs to me . If i would like to make an iso to protect my original cd's I should be able to without the need to run a crack.

+1 and a gold star.

Please print that in the mag!

Post by **Anakha56** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:14

jamin_za wrote:
Mow wrote:Im all for improving online activation systems. But against CD based anti piracy. The games rights belong to you , protect it game publishers. The cd however belongs to me . If i would like to make an iso to protect my original cd's I should be able to without the need to run a crack.
+1 and a gold star.

Please print that in the mag!

+1 and another request to go into the mag...

MIA · Post by **MIA** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:18

*agrees with jamin*

Post by **KillerByte** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:29

jamin_za wrote:
Mow wrote:Im all for improving online activation systems. But against CD based anti piracy. The games rights belong to you , protect it game publishers. The cd however belongs to me . If i would like to make an iso to protect my original cd's I should be able to without the need to run a crack.
+1 and a gold star.

Please print that in the mag!

i'll see... lol

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:36

MIA wrote:*agrees with jamin*

i don't

the content protection mechanisms tied to the media are, (aside from the aforementioned tripe), some of the least intrusive... doing away with these will only prompt an upsurge in the more intrusive ones..

frankly, i have only ever encountered a single issue with a disc 'wearing out' through use, and that's because it has never left the drive... (diablo 2)... other than that, the rest are still in good nick, mainly because i've never played them that much.. the whole "back up my discs" argument falls by the wayside when you consider that the replacement cost now is less than R100 for the full game and expansion.. it's a fop used by the whiners to mitigate their morally ambiguous lifestyles..[size=0]hehe[/size].

Post by **Anakha56** » 03 Jun 2008, 11:47

good counter rusty...

Okay how about copy protection systems that work hand in hand with Game Jackal(an example)? It allows the user to create a profile of the cd/dvd and be able to launch the game without the need for a cd/dvd. Currently it does a good job but some system it does not work with like starforce and Tages also the new Securom is also looking at making GJ die a slow and painful death

.

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:03

not ever having used it, i have no idea... if the 'profile' can be shared, then this clearly cirumvents the whole idea of legal/fair use..

securom does a decent job with minimal hassle...

Post by **Anakha56** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:16

profile cannot be shared it is created to a random key generated during install. you can backup the key and profiles so in that way it can be seen as going against legal/fair use...

except now securom wants you to dial home during install and limit your install amounts

Jonboy · Post by **Jonboy** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:21

It's the same situation with DVD piracy, I buy an original DVD and they put that irritating "YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A PURSE..." advert on. If only they could convince the pirates to attach that add to their dodgy DVDs...

Back to PCs though, couldn't designers come up with a flash disk based encryption whereby all new game purchases came with a flash disk that you needed to have inserted with the cd in the drive to install, but then could play the game without the cd in the drive or something?

MIA · Post by **MIA** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:25

Back to PCs though, couldn't designers come up with a flash disk based encryption whereby all new game purchases came with a flash disk that you needed to have inserted with the cd in the drive to install, but then could play the game without the cd in the drive or something?

That already exists. I have seen programs that needs a "dongle" in the com port (yea, its an oldish program) before you can run the program. You can install it without the "dongle", but not run it.

Jonboy · Post by **Jonboy** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:27

MIA wrote:That already exists. I have seen programs that needs a "dongle" in the com port (yea, its an oldish program) before you can run the program. You can install it without the "dongle", but not run it.

It works like that for certain really expensive software packages like some of the geological modelling and engineering packages we have at work.

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 03 Jun 2008, 13:43

rustypup wrote:i have only ever encountered a single issue with a disc 'wearing out' through use, and that's because it has never left the drive... (diablo 2)... other than that, the rest are still in good nick, mainly because i've never played them that much..

Well there you go then!

Can I name for you the discs I have worn out over the years through use?

Deadlock - bought in 1996, cracked sometime in 2002 - found another copy at Cash Converters
Starcraft - bought in 1998 scratched beyond use about a year ago - have not as yet replaced
Homeworld - bought in 2000, died in a tragic accident when my chair rolled over it - not replaced as yet
Warhammer 40000 - bought in 2005, CD 1 scratched beyond repair
Civilization 4 - Bought in 2006, scratched beyond repair - not replaced as I have both the expansion packs that don't need it to play.

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 03 Jun 2008, 14:21

jamin_za wrote:died in a tragic accident when my chair rolled over it

PBCAK

i'm not denying it doesn't happen.. .i'm saying; given the volume of games purchased vs those worn down through use doesn't warrant the amount of repetitive bleating that pops up around the 'fair-use' eyepatch afflicted twits in defence of their ill-gotten booty...

thinking it through, i've also had a disc shatter in the drive... but, here's the thing.. neither the developer nor the publisher is responsible for my hardware... why make them responsible by proxy?

in many cases, the purile logic runs:
1) My disc is dead.
2) I paid for this game.
3) Referring back to 2), there is zero rational reason for me not resorting to piracy because, technically, refer to point 2.

So, my tyres are flat - i paid for them, i'm taking yours... because... i paid for them, dagnabbit!

Worship · Post by **Worship** » 03 Jun 2008, 14:52

Jonboy wrote:It's the same situation with DVD piracy, I buy an original DVD and they put that irritating "YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A PURSE..." advert on. If only they could convince the pirates to attach that add to their dodgy DVDs...

Best anti-piracy idea ever! Put a retarded advert that you can't skip on a real DVD so you feel like buying a pirated one just to skip watching it. The advert being shown at the movies is also irritating although less so. If it had to be shown, rather show it on television or put in only in magazines or something.

Post by **KillerByte** » 03 Jun 2008, 15:05

ever seen the ad on disney discs for Blu-Ray, its worse than watching the old DVD ad on VHS tapes (you could at least fast forward past that). the disney Blu-Ray ad is about 3-4 minutes long and boy is it a brain killer

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 03 Jun 2008, 15:11

rustypup wrote:
jamin_za wrote:died in a tragic accident when my chair rolled over it
PBCAK

Okay, that one may have been a poor example

rustypup wrote:1) My disc is dead.
2) I paid for this game.
3) Referring back to 2), there is zero rational reason for me not resorting to piracy because, technically, refer to point 2.

www.gamefaqs.com wrote:Is it legal to make a copy of a game I own?

Yes. U.S. Copyright laws allow you to make one backup copy of software you own. However, that backup copy is "tied" to your original. If you sell or give away your original software, you must destroy your backup copy or package it with the orignal when you sell or give it away. Likewise, you may not sell or give away your backup copy without the original.
Of course, with the advent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), breaking the copyright protection on a piece of software you own has been made a crime in many cases, so if the software you are backing up implements copyright protection, it may also be illegal.

You see, that hurts me personally, because I generally buy a game and play it to death several times over.
I recently started playing Empire Earth again for the umpteenth time. And that CD now looks a bit dodge as well - I don't know if it will survive long...

I want to be able to make a copy of any CD or DVD I purchase. I'll even keep the broken original if I have to. The problem I have with copy protetion has been mentioned already.
It makes it impossible to copy the disc legally.
Pirates dont have that compunction. Copy bypassing tools are a dime a dozen, really, whats the point?

Online activation like Steam does not affect me, and I likewise don't have a problem going online to validate an install of a game - provided that in the event of my original breaking, my copy will do it too.
Really, the only anti-piracy measure that bothers me is copy-protection.

rustypup wrote:So, my tyres are flat - i paid for them, i'm taking yours... because... i paid for them, dagnabbit!

since making a copy of a disc you own is not theft, tell me again how you came up with this delightful parable

Jonboy · Post by **Jonboy** » 03 Jun 2008, 15:21

I would pay slightly more for a game if I didn't need to activate online. Some of us only have access to ADSL at work and my 3G at home is WAY too expensive for steam, so to-date I still haven't played Half-Life 2 and am already lamenting Mass Effect. Methinks a game will be pirated eventually, regardless of the copy protection, so until an infallible method of copy-protection becomes available, they should just skip the whole thing.

It's the same as trying to buy a car and being forced to drive it over to said manufacturer occasionally to ensure that you haven't stolen it. It's an expense that the legitimate buyer has to deal with while the thieves are still getting the soft option. It's infuriating!

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