WC Guide
WC Guide
Hey guys.
After too many topics like this, I think a final one is in order.
Basically what I want to do is have a thread with some good info on wc, anyone that knows what they are talking about is welcome to offer extra information, it will be a help.
I think the first thing to clear up is the whole non-conductive fluid / leaks story.
Non-conductive fluid is amazing stuff. But usually, they cost a small fortune. Fluid XP is said to be non-conductive, but in my experience, it is, sadly, conductive. You see the thing is it usually in non-conductive or barely conductive, until it comes into contact with any other contaminants, in my case, it was dust that cause my fluid to be conductive, I know it was conductive because it killed my psu. If I had to suggest it, I would have to say spend the money on MCT-5 or MCT-40. These fluids are manufactured for Danger Den. They are the least conductive, but obviously there is a premium. If you weren't interested in spending so much, the next best would be PC-Ice or Primochill-Ice.
But the fluid usually isn't an issue. If you build your system correctly, you need not worry about leaks. The only necessities of a watercooling system would be that it is anti-corrosive and anti-algae. The local gurus usually use distilled water or preferably de-ionised which is virtually non-conductive, mixed with about 10 to 20% anti-freeze with a drop of sunlight. Another method is 1l distilled water, 2 table spoons bleach and 2 drops of sunlight .
Deciding on components is the first step to take once you have got over the leak story. A regular loop has a pump, a cpu block, a t-line and a radiator. These are the bare necessities. A more complex loop can have a cpu block, gpu blocks, pumps, radiators, reservoirs, passive cooling, flow meters, temperature monitors, northbridge blocks, ram coolers, hard drive blocks. The possibilities are endless, not to mention the combinations.
If you decide on taking the plunge, its best to set yourself a budget, and aim to stay a few hundred rand over it at most. There is no use in buying Gigabyte, Thermaltake or Vantec watercooling. There are many reasons for this.
They are cheap and mass produced. There is one rule in life, you get what you pay for. Swiftech for example, only make watercooling components. There is a reason for this. They are good at it, they have specialized. The RnD that has gone into these components is much more than what has gone into the massed produced rubbish that Thermaltake uses to rip people off. Just as a comparison, you wouldn't buy a Panasonic or Pick n Pay car now would you? If you can't afford a proper system, rather buy something like a TR U120X, it will perform better, for cheaper.
Just as a quick comparison, this is the internal maze of the Fuzion D-Tek, which is currently the market leader.
This beautiful design must have taken thousands of man hours to perfect. To come up with something that performs well does not happen on the first few attempts.
Now here is a marketing image from Thermaltake.
I believe this is enough to show the difference in design and quality.
The cpu block is one of the main watercooling components. It can potentially make the biggest difference temperature wise. Other good examples of waterblocks are:
Swiftech Apogee GT
Swiftech Apogee GTX
D-Tek Fuzion
EK Supreme
These are some of the best cpu blocks available at present.
Radiators play the next biggest role. They act as a heatsink for your system so they are vital. They usually come in 120mm sizes, like 120x120, 240x120 and so forth. These are very debatable though. There is a definite best when it comes to these, but it is priced very high. The Thermochill series of radiators literally leave the competition in an oven. The specialize in radiators. They are based in the UK which causes the prices to be so high.
I personally believe that these make a difference. Other people disagree. Some other good suggestions would be:
Black Ice Pro 3
Black Ice Extreme 3
A pump is just as important as the rest of your setup. This is more simple. Basically, you can choose to build a high flow, or high pressure system. High flow cools better, but doesn't perform as well with multiple blocks or resistance in the loop. High pressure supports more components but doesn't cool as well individually.
The two main competitors are:
High Pressure:
High Flow:
These two aren't the be all end all of pumps, but most of the designs are reincarnated versions identical to these.
I beleive this will be enough for part 1
Mike
After too many topics like this, I think a final one is in order.
Basically what I want to do is have a thread with some good info on wc, anyone that knows what they are talking about is welcome to offer extra information, it will be a help.
I think the first thing to clear up is the whole non-conductive fluid / leaks story.
Non-conductive fluid is amazing stuff. But usually, they cost a small fortune. Fluid XP is said to be non-conductive, but in my experience, it is, sadly, conductive. You see the thing is it usually in non-conductive or barely conductive, until it comes into contact with any other contaminants, in my case, it was dust that cause my fluid to be conductive, I know it was conductive because it killed my psu. If I had to suggest it, I would have to say spend the money on MCT-5 or MCT-40. These fluids are manufactured for Danger Den. They are the least conductive, but obviously there is a premium. If you weren't interested in spending so much, the next best would be PC-Ice or Primochill-Ice.
But the fluid usually isn't an issue. If you build your system correctly, you need not worry about leaks. The only necessities of a watercooling system would be that it is anti-corrosive and anti-algae. The local gurus usually use distilled water or preferably de-ionised which is virtually non-conductive, mixed with about 10 to 20% anti-freeze with a drop of sunlight. Another method is 1l distilled water, 2 table spoons bleach and 2 drops of sunlight .
Deciding on components is the first step to take once you have got over the leak story. A regular loop has a pump, a cpu block, a t-line and a radiator. These are the bare necessities. A more complex loop can have a cpu block, gpu blocks, pumps, radiators, reservoirs, passive cooling, flow meters, temperature monitors, northbridge blocks, ram coolers, hard drive blocks. The possibilities are endless, not to mention the combinations.
If you decide on taking the plunge, its best to set yourself a budget, and aim to stay a few hundred rand over it at most. There is no use in buying Gigabyte, Thermaltake or Vantec watercooling. There are many reasons for this.
They are cheap and mass produced. There is one rule in life, you get what you pay for. Swiftech for example, only make watercooling components. There is a reason for this. They are good at it, they have specialized. The RnD that has gone into these components is much more than what has gone into the massed produced rubbish that Thermaltake uses to rip people off. Just as a comparison, you wouldn't buy a Panasonic or Pick n Pay car now would you? If you can't afford a proper system, rather buy something like a TR U120X, it will perform better, for cheaper.
Just as a quick comparison, this is the internal maze of the Fuzion D-Tek, which is currently the market leader.
This beautiful design must have taken thousands of man hours to perfect. To come up with something that performs well does not happen on the first few attempts.
Now here is a marketing image from Thermaltake.
I believe this is enough to show the difference in design and quality.
The cpu block is one of the main watercooling components. It can potentially make the biggest difference temperature wise. Other good examples of waterblocks are:
Swiftech Apogee GT
Swiftech Apogee GTX
D-Tek Fuzion
EK Supreme
These are some of the best cpu blocks available at present.
Radiators play the next biggest role. They act as a heatsink for your system so they are vital. They usually come in 120mm sizes, like 120x120, 240x120 and so forth. These are very debatable though. There is a definite best when it comes to these, but it is priced very high. The Thermochill series of radiators literally leave the competition in an oven. The specialize in radiators. They are based in the UK which causes the prices to be so high.
I personally believe that these make a difference. Other people disagree. Some other good suggestions would be:
Black Ice Pro 3
Black Ice Extreme 3
A pump is just as important as the rest of your setup. This is more simple. Basically, you can choose to build a high flow, or high pressure system. High flow cools better, but doesn't perform as well with multiple blocks or resistance in the loop. High pressure supports more components but doesn't cool as well individually.
The two main competitors are:
High Pressure:
High Flow:
These two aren't the be all end all of pumps, but most of the designs are reincarnated versions identical to these.
I beleive this will be enough for part 1
Mike
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Very well written indeed, nice info on here.
The Fuzion D-Tek is indeed a work of art.
I have also heard that you can get better results with a watercooling/TEC combination, since a radiator can never cool down the water beyond room temperature, whereas a TEC can lower the temperature down below ambient room temperature.
A problem I have heard of using de-ionised water is that it continually seeks to replenish the lost ions, which would strip away and degrade the water blocks themselves over time. Another thing of adding a chemical mix is the way it reacts to the various cooling circuit, particularly the pipes and blocks.
Or so I have read/heard. But then again, I'm not even a n00b at WC, so this is more theory than anything else, just wanting clarification and reconciliation of different information sources.
Keep up the good posting re: WC bazik.
The Fuzion D-Tek is indeed a work of art.
I have also heard that you can get better results with a watercooling/TEC combination, since a radiator can never cool down the water beyond room temperature, whereas a TEC can lower the temperature down below ambient room temperature.
A problem I have heard of using de-ionised water is that it continually seeks to replenish the lost ions, which would strip away and degrade the water blocks themselves over time. Another thing of adding a chemical mix is the way it reacts to the various cooling circuit, particularly the pipes and blocks.
Or so I have read/heard. But then again, I'm not even a n00b at WC, so this is more theory than anything else, just wanting clarification and reconciliation of different information sources.
Keep up the good posting re: WC bazik.
1x Athlon 64 3200+
1x Sapphire Pure Element mobo
1x 6600GT 256MB PCI-E
1x 1GB DDR2 800Mhz
1x 160GB SATA HDD
1x Sapphire Pure Element mobo
1x 6600GT 256MB PCI-E
1x 1GB DDR2 800Mhz
1x 160GB SATA HDD
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Thermo Electric cooling is expensive and inefficient. It uses much more power and can cause condensation. If you want something serious, go all the way and do phase.Triatium wrote:I have also heard that you can get better results with a watercooling/TEC combination, since a radiator can never cool down the water beyond room temperature, whereas a TEC can lower the temperature down below ambient room temperature.
Not sure about the degradation of the internals, but it loses its non conductivity very quickly. I don't think it will have a major effect on the blocks, I mean metals don't suffer badly from transfers of this like caliber for lack of a better word.Triatium wrote:A problem I have heard of using de-ionised water is that it continually seeks to replenish the lost ions, which would strip away and degrade the water blocks themselves over time. Another thing of adding a chemical mix is the way it reacts to the various cooling circuit, particularly the pipes and blocks.
Or so I have read/heard. But then again, I'm not even a n00b at WC, so this is more theory than anything else, just wanting clarification and reconciliation of different information sources.
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Maybe also talk about radiator saturation.
another good topic to cover would be the use of multiple pumps in a loop...so many people ask about it...and so many more are uninformed about it.
If you like, when I finally build up my PC again, I could take some pics of your old loop being put together, blah blah! You know...sort of a pictorial guide to building a look up from start to leak free coolness in the end
another good topic to cover would be the use of multiple pumps in a loop...so many people ask about it...and so many more are uninformed about it.
If you like, when I finally build up my PC again, I could take some pics of your old loop being put together, blah blah! You know...sort of a pictorial guide to building a look up from start to leak free coolness in the end
Basically the water in the loop is carrying more heat energy than the radiator can remove and thus the radiator is saturated and not big enough or efficient enough to cool the water.
So me trying to run an OC'd 8800GTS and E6420 OC'd to 3.8GHz would easily saturate a single 120mm radiator, and temps would rise to unacceptable temps very quickly.
To sort this you need more airflow or more surface area or both.
So me trying to run an OC'd 8800GTS and E6420 OC'd to 3.8GHz would easily saturate a single 120mm radiator, and temps would rise to unacceptable temps very quickly.
To sort this you need more airflow or more surface area or both.
Last edited by viceroy on 15 Nov 2007, 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
Ok, so i have a few questions please i34z1k ;
1. can you make a custom reservoir out of plexi? if so, what's the best to glue the res together with?
2. does it have to be a particular size?
3. does the size of the pump matter in relation to the length of the tube and the size of the reservoir?
i think that's all for now.
i want to do my own watercooling setup, but not the waterblocks as i don't have a milling machine (apparently you need that), that and the radiator i think i will purchase rather...
1. can you make a custom reservoir out of plexi? if so, what's the best to glue the res together with?
2. does it have to be a particular size?
3. does the size of the pump matter in relation to the length of the tube and the size of the reservoir?
i think that's all for now.
i want to do my own watercooling setup, but not the waterblocks as i don't have a milling machine (apparently you need that), that and the radiator i think i will purchase rather...
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true - but just one difference. i don't want the reservoir that comes with the kit, i want to make my own for my case... so if i can get all the parts and put it together myself, then cool...vampyre 2099 wrote:doug, it'll probably be the same price(if not cheaper) and ALOT easier to to just go out and buy a proper WC kit, it's also almost guaranteed to work
also, i have heard that while the Apogee GT that comes with the top of the range Apex Ultra Kit is good, there are better. so why not get all the stuff together and do it yourself...
the other reason i would prefer to get the stuff and do it myself is because i don't have a case made for WC, it's a Aerocool AeroEngine II, but i have a couple really good ideas to make it fit...
so that's kinda why i want to do it myself... trust me, i hae looked at the kits, they look nice, really nice, but if i can do it myself, all the better... and also, why must i go pay for a reservoir that i ain't going to use? then also find that some of the tubing is too short?
does this make sense to anyone?
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I see where you coming from, although the Apogee GT isn't top of the line, its still on of the best out there. If you want then go for the Fusion D-Tek, its pricey but its brilliant.
I'm sure you could build a reservoir yourself, I don't see why you cant. I'm sure just normal super glue would be ok or silicone will do fine to stick it together. Just make sure it dries properly before you use it
I'm sure you could build a reservoir yourself, I don't see why you cant. I'm sure just normal super glue would be ok or silicone will do fine to stick it together. Just make sure it dries properly before you use it
1) yes you can make it out of plexi. I'd guess that some sort of clear slightly flexible epoxy would be best. Just make sure though that it's safe for plastics. I would actually go the whole hog and use screws, silicone and o-rings...but thats just me.douglash wrote:Ok, so i have a few questions please i34z1k ;
1. can you make a custom reservoir out of plexi? if so, what's the best to glue the res together with?
2. does it have to be a particular size?
3. does the size of the pump matter in relation to the length of the tube and the size of the reservoir?
i think that's all for now.
i want to do my own watercooling setup, but not the waterblocks as i don't have a milling machine (apparently you need that), that and the radiator i think i will purchase rather...
2.) you don't even have to have a res in a water loop. The res is just there to enable you to have more coolant in the system which I believe helps with overall cooling
3.) yes the size of the pump does most definately matter in terms of what length of tubing you use, esp if you're going or a high flow pump over a high pressure pump. Basically you want as little tubing as possible, unless you're not using a reservoir in which case a little extra tubing to hold more water is good. As with most things in life, it comes down to balance.
Last edited by viceroy on 16 Nov 2007, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.