Would a mini-compressor work?

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 01 Nov 2007, 11:08

Hey there

Just been wondering about compressor cooling for various parts, like cpu, chipset, etc.

First time I saw a compressor being used was on Tom's hardware, looked quite hectic, but not sure how good using a compressor is in comparison to water cooling etc.

My question is, assuming you can get your tubing etc. set up properly, would one of those mini compressors you see in game and hardware stores (used to inflate dingies and wheels etc, especially the bigger 4x4 compressor) be any good? I'm guessing that it can't maintain a continuous air generation cycle, unless you maybe create a closed loop system, with hot air passing through a radiator system to remove the heat and allow the air to become denser, before looping it back into the air intake? with noise, maybe encase it in that high quality sound proofing foam, to reduce excess noise?

I'm trying to figure out the feasibility of such a system. I'd imagine it being an external system hooked into a case via the tubing, with the compressor itself and a radiator on the outside.

Any ideas or takes on it? Not going to be doing it anytime soon, just thinking of it "in potentia".

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 01 Nov 2007, 11:14

It's not compressor as in air compressor, it's compressors as in refrigeration compressors.

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 01 Nov 2007, 11:19

Ah, that would explain it.

Well, that aside, would an air compressor work? Im thinking that the rate of airflow to the various cooled components would have to be slowed, otherwise the thermal dissipation would not be efficient at all, and probably fry some components.

I'm also concerned about the thought that has just occurred to me, is that when compressing air, it heats up, thus without having a radiator leading into the case, and just out, means warm air will be continuously circulated over the various items. Not great.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 01 Nov 2007, 11:28

You'd need a inter-cooler, cpu / gpu blocks with venturi channeling, and if you plan on recirculating the air a radiator.

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 01 Nov 2007, 11:38

Hmm, only have heard of intercoolers on vehicles and aircraft. From what I've seen, they are damn big! any idea if there are mini-intercoolers that are electrically operated, perhaps?

What is venturi channeling?

The way I see it, will need an intercooler interposed between the air intake of the compressor, and the piping returning hot air from the components, if it is to be a closed system. I assume the intercooler would fulfill the function of a radiator as well in this instance?

I foresee a radiator being needed before the piping leads to the components, to cool the air heated up by compression, and also to slow the rate of airflow down marginally, to try increase thermal dissipation.

The reason why i am thinking of a closed system is in an attempt to ease the burden of the compressor itself, to try up its compression efficiency and maintain a consistent air output, in addition to lengthening the lifespan of it, by reducing the amount of air it has to compress, as it is functionally the same amount of air, with a few discrepancies. Also the air will be more compressed already in a closed system, thus reducing the amount of work.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 01 Nov 2007, 12:45

An inter-cooler can be a plain little radiator, to cool the air coming from the compressor, though it might not be totally necessary. The venturi channeling would mean a circular channel in the block that changes gauge / diameter at a point, with the air coming in through the thinner end and exiting through the thicker end. What you get then is a venturi effect, which means the air speeds up and expands to fill the greater volume of the thicker piece of channel. This requires energy which gets taken from the surrounding area (the block) in the form of heat.

Thinking about it a closed loop with a normal compressor could lead to disaster as the run hot, and the added heat could seize it up.

Then the noise would be a problem as well.

Skidd · Post by **Skidd** » 01 Nov 2007, 12:48

Hman wrote:You'd need a inter-cooler, cpu / gpu blocks with venturi channeling, and if you plan on recirculating the air a radiator.

Intercooler radiator same thing, only one is for water and the other is for air but they do exactly the same thing.

On the subject, first problem, compressing air causes it to heat up. second problem, you will need to have a high pressure tubing, third problem, its going to cost and arm and a leg and maybe a testicle.

Moral of the story, go with tried and tested methodes, like water cooling

I34z1k · Post by **I34z1k** » 01 Nov 2007, 14:10

If you are hardcore, you can make your own system

And no it won't work, and no its not cheap.

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 08:53

Thanks for the heads up on venturi, hman.

Skidd, the proposal of radiators before and after the tubing enters the case to the components is to cool down the air entering and exiting, to reduce thermal stress on relevant parts (pc parts and compressor, respectively). Also, compressed air is approximately room temperature, but the rate of flow makes it "cooler" (blow compressed air across your hand etc. and you get a practical demonstration). Also, the tubing is not really an issue, a bigger one would be the connectors.

As per cost overall, if you look at the respective compressor, tubing, radiators and blocks, then it should be cheaper than a water or TEC system, but more expensive than just getting bigger/more fans installed on the chassis. The objective is to provide a better middle ground between standard air cooling, and water systems, in regards to cooling effect and cost. The biggest thing would be the labour going into specifically modding the case, and also ensuring that the compressor itself is sound-proofed as much as possible.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:04

If you were serious about building something like this, I'd suggest building the blocks in such a manner that they can still cool by normal air cooling effect ie. they should still be heatsinks, in case of trouble with the compressor.

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:13

Why not use the compressed air as a supplement, routing the air through a 'modified' heatsink on the CPU/GPU side?

Basically what I am thinking is that the purpose of the air is more to move over the HSF than to actually having a single copper block for that purpose. Copper block with HSF on top and a rough round hole through the base for the air to run through...

Also, at the speed the compressed air will be pumped through, I'm not too sure on the effectiveness of a 'radiator' in that instance... Even 2. That adds a heck load of other fans as well already...

You need a ☼ type hole. Except the edges pointing in. Thus the air going through the hole / tube would then have more area of contact with the copper to move the heat away from the processor...

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:22

That's a great suggestion, Hman. heres what I was thinking regarding that:

For the CPU and VGA (and possibly chipset) coolers, have heatsink-esque blocks that can also take a normal fan attached to the top of it, that runs off the psu power, since the compressor would be using a different power source, so no real strain on the system anyways, since that is a normal option to take now as well. In the event of compressor failure, the blocks can still be cooled, albeit not as efficiently.

The question now is, what would be the best method of implementing that? I was thinking that getting those crafted would defeat the object of this exercise, as they would be costly. The alternative I thought of is perhaps utilizing normal heatsinks, with thick bases, so can bore through the bases for a single channel inlet and outlet.

Another possibility is to perhaps have a specific base crafted to go on the bottom of the existing heatsink, perhaps have it as a low-profile 'sink, and then have a baffled lower base with inlet and outlet, so heat can still radiate to the heatsink, and allow a more circuitous route for the air to pass through, to absorb more heat, which wont be hindered as much for thermal transfer by heat pipes, hence the baffles.

I do apologise if I don't make sense, typing it down as it comes to mind.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:27

I was thinking about a thick based heatsink too, then it's easy to drill maybe as much as 4 channels into it.

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:31

So perhaps have four channels (I'm assuming side by side) through the base, with maybe all joined into a single exit and entry connector, respectively, or branch the tubing?

The side-by-side configuration would require small diameter holes. Would that be more efficient than 4 larger holes, but two on top, two on bottom, or maybe two or three larger holes on the base, or what?

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:34

I'll make a drawing quickly.

Samaya · Post by **Samaya** » 02 Nov 2007, 09:58

Your first problem would be rather with the compressor itself. Those small 4x4 things get hellishly hot on its own. If you considered using a semi small compressor like a 30 or 40litre unit form say Builders warehouse, you could just use the compressed air to blow directly on the heatsink of your CPU, GPU, whatever. You replace the fans IOW. You will have to "dry" the air from the compressor as it has a lot of water particles in it. Difficult to do IMO.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:08

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:20

thanks for the drawing hman, very neat and illustrative (much better quality than the poo I was busy with in paint)!!!

Got it printed out for reference, I check what you are saying (I think - correct me if I'm wrong):

In the base of the heatsink, from one side drill 3mm diameter holes into a depth of 20mm, then the remainder of the 40mm drill an 8mm diameter hole.

Which side would be the best for inlet and exit, respectively?

Also, I see that the internal drilling meeting point is slanted - can one achieve that? Or is that more an aesthetic representation?

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:29

All you do is drill a 3mm hole all the way through.

Then using the hole as a guide, drill with a 8mm. Steel bits are usually slanted (Except for the new and improved AWESOME bullet point ones). Drill into hole till required depth is reached... The drill bit will create that 'curve' automatically. It is actually preferred to have, increases smoothness of airflow...

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:31

Correct, you drill 3 mm one side and the 8mm from the other. The 3mm side is the inlet and the 8mm the exit. The slanted bit will be produced by the drill bit's angled point. But I'd suggest grinding the bit to get a sharper point. Then you just ned to tap the ends for the connectors.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:34

Slasher wrote:All you do is drill a 3mm hole all the way through.

Then using the hole as a guide, drill with a 8mm. Steel bits are usually slanted (Except for the new and improved AWESOME bullet point ones). Drill into hole till required depth is reached... The drill bit will create that 'curve' automatically. It is actually preferred to have, increases smoothness of airflow...

QFT

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:42

I check what you and Slasher are saying, Hman, didn't even think of that. Mildly embarrassing.

Samaya raised a good point about heat build up on the compressor itself from extended operation. My machine isn't running 24/7, but does run for a few hours daily usually, especially when I'm gaming. Would it be better to take the covers off for increased ventilation of the compressor, or is the operation span not long enough to really make a difference? Also, that part about water particles from the compressor's air worries me, as I am thinking problems especially for the heatsink itself and corrosion.

I've got a few heatsinks lying about, will look at a potential drilling test or few this weekend, after I scale a drill (distinct lack of power tools etc). My father in law to be should have the appropriate kit.

How would one get the connectors to sit securely in the holes? I'm not familiar with the term "tap" used in this context- is it literal tapping of an object with another, or is it a specific thing one does? Would threading connectors in work?

Also, a question arises with the size of tubing to be utilized - would high-spec plastic tubing be sufficient, as I don't perceive the small compressor generating enough pressure to rupture or weaken the tubing, there are no additives or abrasives to again attack the tubing or 'sinks? Or must one get special tubing? Next is the size of the tubing - too small and I imagine it will create back pressure in the system.

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:52

Well, the heat buildup could be an issue. Only way to test is see if you cant find one from somewhere and see the heat after an hour, two etc...

Water should not be an issue if you run it in a closed loop. The pump will just become a water cooler after quite a while...

Tapping is the process off adding thread. Thus threading the holes you made for a barb to be added...

Standard tubing should be fine, doubt you will have an issue...

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:56

Yeah, you have to thread it. You would require a hose capable of holding the pressure. I'd suggest that the inlet tubing should have a id thicker than the 3mm hole so that the pressure forms in the 3mm part.

Triatium · Post by **Triatium** » 02 Nov 2007, 10:59

I check that, Slasher

Ok, so tapping is adding thread. Check that, makes sense now. How would one tap the drilled holes in order to get the required thread to match whatever the potential connectors would have?

I've just thought of a snag that I can't immediately see a resolution for - the idea of adding a bottom plate that has the connector already built in etc to the heatsink - how would they be joined to form an airtight connection (short of welding etc), and also for my idea of the baffles, which I really really like, but how would one then ensure the baffle plates do not have any space between them and the heatsink? They would also need to be secure, to prevent the air just flowing over the top, instead of going through the channels the baffle plates create.