The Official PlayStation 3 Thread

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 03 Apr 2007, 19:40

Squirly wrote:Thing is they don't need that much RAM. It's just a console, made (pretty much) entirley for gaming. There's no OS overhead or other **** going on in the backgorund, just the game. The enitre architecture is based around gaming so it's a lot more efficient than a PC.

Still gets trounced by the new 8 series thogh.

Ok, so considering Vista uses 512mb Ram, all pc games should be perfect on 1 gig ram (seeing as it leaves you with 512 AND you still have gfx mem as well)... Why do people put 2gig or 4 gig ram in their PC's if they only plan to GAME on it?

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » 03 Apr 2007, 20:02

Zaa, if there ever was a hardcore Sony fanboi, you are it. Good on ya. But...why? You must have some serious SONY loyalty. Sony should be paying you to field all these curveballs.

I myself am happy with my XBOX360, even happier with my Wii. X360's got nothing to look forward to for me, Gears of War is all I play. No titles on the horizon worth writing home about.

As for PS3, no doubt it will come right with time, but at the moment it appears to me like a huge grey elephant chilling in the middle of a room of sleek jungle cats...not very attractive, kind of awkward and expensive with not much going for it. Either it's gonna be eaten alive by the others, or it may come out tops. Just better hope the game developers have got the patience and money to use the dev. kit that's purported to be a bit of a steep mountain to climb.

ZeroS · Post by **ZeroS** » 03 Apr 2007, 20:10

I really don't give a damn about the war between consoles and pc's and inter console war itself.

For me, it's the games I like. If ps3 has them, I'ld like a ps3. If it's on pc, then pc it is.

At the moment it looks like ps3 is gonna be my best bet.
FFXIII
RE5
DMC4
The host of eastern games that'll be released on it.
etc.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » 03 Apr 2007, 21:22

RE5 DOES look awesome.

DMC3 was supposed to be awesome on PS2, never played it though. I know DMC4 is supposed to be coming to XBOX360, as well as RE5. As for FFXIII, I reckon that'll be PS3 exclusive. Also, Metal Gear Solid will probably be PS3 exclusive, and that BETTER be good as a killer PS3 app - supposed to really harness the power of PS3.

Much of a muchness. I wonder if Blu-Ray will be the next big thing, or if it'll fade out like Betamax. I guess time will tell. If Blu-Ray doesn't gain a sustainable market share in the home video market, SONY may be in a little bit of ****.

Whatever happened to SEGA? Haven't seen any hardware from them since the Dreamcast. Guess they bombed out. I remember having heated debates at my junior school with other Nintendo owners about which console was the best - GENESIS or SNES. Lolzorz. I woz being an idiot. Brand loyalty makes the fat cats laugh all the way to the bank. Sukkaz.

maestro_za · Post by **maestro_za** » 03 Apr 2007, 21:37

@ Mikdog
SEGA only make games these days. Dreamcast was their last foray into consoles.

Nintendo on the other hand are serving a "niche" market with their Nintendo DS & Wii. In fact, if it wasn't for Microsoft, Sony would have a free reign.

The PS2 practically wiped the floor with the Dreamcast and the original XBox in terms of sales. Thank goodness for alternatives in the console and handheld space.

L8r

ZeroS · Post by **ZeroS** » 03 Apr 2007, 21:54

Yeah, they really gotta do something good with MGS 4. But, damn, snake looks like 'n oupa.

vectaman · Post by **vectaman** » 04 Apr 2007, 01:41

Well this one seriously hit off nicely. IMO the thing is this. Everybody squirmed at the price and quite frankly even though I bought one I couldnt help but think as I was on my way home from the store if I maybe went a bit overboard. When I hooked up I re-affirmed my choice as this machine is top class. Its not about being a fanboy or knocking the 360 or whatever. At the end of the day the thing delivers. What you got here is an entertainment system that plays games and then some, and if you someone who doesnt care for titles like MGS4 or FFXIII as it may well be exclusive then the PS3 may not be for you. Then you gotta factor in whether you're going for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Where HD's are easier to manufacture Blu-Ray is preferred by the developers (that being in the PC market) because of its bigger storage capacity. Where HD players are supposedly cheaper, there are more big name studios supporting Blu-Ray. The more software sales on Blu-Ray, the price will come down. In the last month and a half Blu-Ray sales shot up aswell. Check these out:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Featur ... 5559342874

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/20 ... _blu-r.php

At the end of the day if you are gonna sway towards Blu-Ray then the PS3 is a bargain cuz you already have a top-class player where at the moment Blu-Ray players retail for about 12K. If you gonna go 360 you have to buy the HD-DVD add-on drive. The other thing is that 360 games are on normal DVD format as opposed to PS3 games being on Blu-Ray. We talking 9GB DVD-DL games vs max 50GB Blu-Ray's. Is it safe to assume that sooner or later when the PS3 has its feet firmly on the ground, the level of quality and depth of its games will supercede the 360? And thats purely because the developers can put more into their games with its higher capacity. Remember these are facts, I'm not being biased. The problem here is that the HD-DVD add-on is for video playback only, and will not support HD-DVD games. Refer to http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141930.html. So whats gonna happen if MS have to compete with higher capacity games in the near future? Multi-disc games ala PS1's Final Fantasy series (what will they cost?!) or yet another add-on that will dent your pocket?

Now with regards to pricing of hardware compared to the PS3
Cost of 360 Premium: R3799
Cost of HD-DVD add-on: $200/R1428 converted (not including mark-up)
20GB HDD x2: R2202 (totalling a capacity of 60GB if it were possible to add more than one HDD)

Total of hardware alone on par with PS3: R7429 without the mark-up we WILL get on the HD add-on. Things aren't looking to good here. And yet we have some people complaining about the PS3 HDMI cable for R200. Lets go further.

Xbox Live Subscription: Up to $70/R499.80 annual fee
Xbox Live game points: 0.15c ZAR each
DVD Games: averaging R500

Its free to access the PlayStation Network opposed to R499.80 annually. Average game cost on XBLA is 800 points = R120 for an arcade title. Yes there are only a few games on the PS3 Network but how about Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection in HD costing only R95? And thats a full-game top class title. 360 games on DVD-DL cost average R500. PS3 games on Blu-Ray cost average R500. This statement does not need explaining.

Now after looking at all the these facts, which system is actually more expensive? Do we really want to maintain a console or are we not better off upgrading a PC which focuses not only on gaming? The floor is yours gentlemen.

WiK1d · Post by **WiK1d** » 04 Apr 2007, 03:21

You don't even get 50GB PC games, what are you on about?

Zaa · Post by **Zaa** » 04 Apr 2007, 08:05

Mikdog wrote:Zaa, if there ever was a hardcore Sony fanboi, you are it. Good on ya. But...why? You must have some serious SONY loyalty. Sony should be paying you to field all these curveballs.

I myself am happy with my XBOX360, even happier with my Wii. X360's got nothing to look forward to for me, Gears of War is all I play. No titles on the horizon worth writing home about.

As for PS3, no doubt it will come right with time, but at the moment it appears to me like a huge grey elephant chilling in the middle of a room of sleek jungle cats...not very attractive, kind of awkward and expensive with not much going for it. Either it's gonna be eaten alive by the others, or it may come out tops. Just better hope the game developers have got the patience and money to use the dev. kit that's purported to be a bit of a steep mountain to climb.

Im not a Sony fanboy. I even bought a Xbox 360 at launch. Im just not impressed with the style and quality of games that have been released on it so far. The games are just too similar and im not a fan of most of the genres.

Sure there aren't that many games for the PS3 atm, but thats how launches are. The only real killer app for the Xbox is Gears of War and that was released a year after launch.

vectaman · Post by **vectaman** » 04 Apr 2007, 18:49

WiK1d wrote:You don't even get 50GB PC games, what are you on about?

What has this got to do with anything? This is about the PS3, hence the title of this thread.

ZeroS · Post by **ZeroS** » 04 Apr 2007, 18:52

Hey vectaman, you gotta PS3, tell us more about it.
The games, what're the games like?

vectaman · Post by **vectaman** » 04 Apr 2007, 19:15

ZeroS wrote:Hey vectaman, you gotta PS3, tell us more about it.
The games, what're the games like?

I only bought Def Jam Icon. Its a brawler featuring rap artists like Ludacris, The Game, Sean Paul, all the big names under the Def Jam label. It controls similar to Fight Night Round 3. You damage your opponent (apart from analog strokes and key presses) with the environment and the music. For example in the roof top stage there's a helicopter flying around. If you throw your opponent towards the copter on the beat of the track, it will smack your opponent like a home run. U can also use the analog to scratch the song to cause other environmental damage. Character models are SUPER detailed so the graphics get top scores there.

I downloaded Gran Turismo HD Concept. You should see this. Everything on screen is detailed. The crowd are not sprites as we are used to seeing. Car models are great. The environment is pretty. The gameplay is as good and realistic as the GT series always is. The most popular launch title is Resistance: Fall of Man. Its a FPS. Apparently the gameplay is great but I have not played it. I'll keep you updated as I get more games.

Fcon_Vpro · Post by **Fcon_Vpro** » 04 Apr 2007, 19:59

vectaman wrote:Well this one seriously hit off nicely. IMO the thing is this. Everybody squirmed at the price and quite frankly even though I bought one I couldnt help but think as I was on my way home from the store if I maybe went a bit overboard. When I hooked up I re-affirmed my choice as this machine is top class. Its not about being a fanboy or knocking the 360 or whatever. At the end of the day the thing delivers. What you got here is an entertainment system that plays games and then some, and if you someone who doesnt care for titles like MGS4 or FFXIII as it may well be exclusive then the PS3 may not be for you. Then you gotta factor in whether you're going for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Where HD's are easier to manufacture Blu-Ray is preferred by the developers (that being in the PC market) because of its bigger storage capacity. Where HD players are supposedly cheaper, there are more big name studios supporting Blu-Ray. The more software sales on Blu-Ray, the price will come down. In the last month and a half Blu-Ray sales shot up aswell. Check these out:

http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Featur ... 5559342874

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/20 ... _blu-r.php

At the end of the day if you are gonna sway towards Blu-Ray then the PS3 is a bargain cuz you already have a top-class player where at the moment Blu-Ray players retail for about 12K. If you gonna go 360 you have to buy the HD-DVD add-on drive. The other thing is that 360 games are on normal DVD format as opposed to PS3 games being on Blu-Ray. We talking 9GB DVD-DL games vs max 50GB Blu-Ray's. Is it safe to assume that sooner or later when the PS3 has its feet firmly on the ground, the level of quality and depth of its games will supercede the 360? And thats purely because the developers can put more into their games with its higher capacity. Remember these are facts, I'm not being biased. The problem here is that the HD-DVD add-on is for video playback only, and will not support HD-DVD games. Refer to http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141930.html. So whats gonna happen if MS have to compete with higher capacity games in the near future? Multi-disc games ala PS1's Final Fantasy series (what will they cost?!) or yet another add-on that will dent your pocket?

Now with regards to pricing of hardware compared to the PS3
Cost of 360 Premium: R3799
Cost of HD-DVD add-on: $200/R1428 converted (not including mark-up)
20GB HDD x2: R2202 (totalling a capacity of 60GB if it were possible to add more than one HDD)

Total of hardware alone on par with PS3: R7429 without the mark-up we WILL get on the HD add-on. Things aren't looking to good here. And yet we have some people complaining about the PS3 HDMI cable for R200. Lets go further.

Xbox Live Subscription: Up to $70/R499.80 annual fee
Xbox Live game points: 0.15c ZAR each
DVD Games: averaging R500

Its free to access the PlayStation Network opposed to R499.80 annually. Average game cost on XBLA is 800 points = R120 for an arcade title. Yes there are only a few games on the PS3 Network but how about Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection in HD costing only R95? And thats a full-game top class title. 360 games on DVD-DL cost average R500. PS3 games on Blu-Ray cost average R500. This statement does not need explaining.

Now after looking at all the these facts, which system is actually more expensive? Do we really want to maintain a console or are we not better off upgrading a PC which focuses not only on gaming? The floor is yours gentlemen.

You forgot the Xbox 360 wifi adapter that costs R999.

Thus hitting near the R9k mark.

PS3 also offers a lot more options:
1. Bluetooth: Besides the normal sixaxis controller.... headsets, headphones and microphones can be connected.
2. Gigabit lan (Afaik xbox 360 is only 10/100 but stand to be corrected)
3. Choose your size and brand of hdd you want ( Dont need ms only hdd)

The whole "HDMI cable not included" isnt a big thing.
There are 4 ways to get video. HDMI, component, composite and svideo.
Including all those cables would add to the cost of the console.
Composite is the most common option so I think Sony got it right. If you want a better cable, then you can choose which one you want based on what will work for you at your home.

There are 2 ways to look at it:
1: Initial cost: Xbox360 is cheaper and thus more appealing than PS3.
2: All the options of the PS3 makes it a far cheaper option over the long run.

Even though Im saying this, I think both machines are good and both have advantages and disadvantages. I just think that over the long run PS3 will take it.

vectaman · Post by **vectaman** » 04 Apr 2007, 20:08

WiK1d wrote:Where's that chop who said PS3 games are gonna cost R1000 cause I wanna kick him in the head please.

Spicy-McHaggis wrote:Same here!

There was this guy on the AMD forums a while back whoim also mentioned the same thing of PS3 games being 1K...

Stil rather have XBOX 360...

But het thats probly only personal choice...

You know Spicy-McHaggis you're a real a*se-kisser. That chop in question was Bootsie and I specifically read how you backed him up. Now you wanna agree with WiK1d after you wiped the floor with Zaa who was RIGHT the entire time? You see what happens before you know your facts? You were opinionated to the point of 360 fanboyism and NOW that the PS3 is actually out and the games are available in Rands, you wanna say it is just about personal choice. Gee wizz, I have no words for you..

vectaman · Post by **vectaman** » 04 Apr 2007, 20:26

Fcon_Vpro wrote:
vectaman wrote:......Now with regards to pricing of hardware compared to the PS3
Cost of 360 Premium: R3799
Cost of HD-DVD add-on: $200/R1428 converted (not including mark-up)
20GB HDD x2: R2202 (totalling a capacity of 60GB if it were possible to add more than one HDD)

Total of hardware alone on par with PS3: R7429 without the mark-up we WILL get on the HD add-on. Things aren't looking to good here. And yet we have some people complaining about the PS3 HDMI cable for R200. Lets go further.

Xbox Live Subscription: Up to $70/R499.80 annual fee
Xbox Live game points: 0.15c ZAR each
DVD Games: averaging R500

Its free to access the PlayStation Network opposed to R499.80 annually. Average game cost on XBLA is 800 points = R120 for an arcade title. Yes there are only a few games on the PS3 Network but how about Tekken 5 Dark Resurrection in HD costing only R95? And thats a full-game top class title. 360 games on DVD-DL cost average R500. PS3 games on Blu-Ray cost average R500. This statement does not need explaining.

Now after looking at all the these facts, which system is actually more expensive? Do we really want to maintain a console or are we not better off upgrading a PC which focuses not only on gaming? The floor is yours gentlemen.
You forgot the Xbox 360 wifi adapter that costs R999.
Thus hitting near the R9k mark.

PS3 also offers a lot more options:
1. Bluetooth: Besides the normal sixaxis controller.... headsets, headphones and microphones can be connected.
2. Gigabit lan (Afaik xbox 360 is only 10/100 but stand to be corrected)
3. Choose your size and brand of hdd you want ( Dont need ms only hdd)

The whole "HDMI cable not included" isnt a big thing.
There are 4 ways to get video. HDMI, component, composite and svideo.
Including all those cables would add to the cost of the console.
Composite is the most common option so I think Sony got it right. If you want a better cable, then you can choose which one you want based on what will work for you at your home.......(edit)

Even though Im saying this, I think both machines are good and both have advantages and disadvantages. I just think that over the long run PS3 will take it.

Finally! Someone who speaks facts instead of being biased. You hit the nail on the head by saying:

There are 2 ways to look at it:
1: Initial cost: Xbox360 is cheaper and thus more appealing than PS3.
2: All the options of the PS3 makes it a far cheaper option over the long run.

If people would only register this then the knocking of the PS3 will stop and the machine will get its due for what it is. They both hold their own as you rightfully put it, but we need to wait another year or so to see a true reflection of what the market says, and ultimately decides. That is, if a 'winner' must be decided.

Fcon_Vpro · Post by **Fcon_Vpro** » 04 Apr 2007, 20:53

To be honest my head says get Xbox 360 just so I can play the games I want in HD right now.
But my heart says PS3... Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy and MGS series are difficult for me to turn down. (althought they all still in production)
All the games I want for PS3 are still in PS2 format whereas the others are already available in hd on xbox360: Fifa, Pro evo soccer, etc.
But the problem is that I dont wanna buy xbox360 and then sell it next year once the games are out in full force for ps3.
Cos ultimately I know PS3 is the console I really really want.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » 04 Apr 2007, 20:53

Sounds like the PS3 is really just a souped up PC. Am I wrong? Choose your own HDD? Gigabut LAN? Blue-tooth? Although, for what you're getting, if I were buying a gaming PC with those specs (which would cost, like, R15,000) I'd rather opt for PS3 (at about R6-7,000)

The XBOX360 and PS3 really are just beefed up dedicated gaming PCs in a box.

I also somehow think the PS3 will take it in the end, unless Microsoft have some serious staying power. When PS1 first came out I didn't give it a second glance. I thought the name was stupid and the games also silly (Clockwork Knight, Jumping Flash, etc...)

I also though the XBOX360 was not worth noticing.

So, I've happily been mistaken. Currently, I think the PS3's a piece of expensive ****, but in the LONG run there's probably going to be lots of reasons to get one with an awesome selection of games, although I'm almost certain the console chassis will go in for a remodeling. It looks a bit bloated like a fridge/toaster machine right now. Kind of how both the PS1 and PS2 had a makeover to fit the same technology in a much smaller and more attractive box.

Anyhow.

Fcon_Vpro · Post by **Fcon_Vpro** » 04 Apr 2007, 21:19

Ya you are right with the pc thing.
The nice thing is that for at least 4 years I can play all my games without worrying about compatibility, lag, etc.
And all at a nice 1920x1080 resolution

Everytime I buy a new graphics card its costs R3k minimum. With that 3k I could buy 5/6 extra games.

I suppose everything works out kinda equal though. Cos if you buy a graphics card and 10 games its about R6000, where 10 ps3/xbox360 games costs about R6000.
But never having to worry about upgrading or selling your graphics card is nice peace of mind.

Only crap thing is I cant network with my pc friends anymore.

I think game developers should start working on ways to get cross platform games to play together when they develop them. I know its probably a tall order but could be really nice.

Mikdog · Post by **Mikdog** » 04 Apr 2007, 21:31

Well, I think they did that with a recent Final Fantasy game, where the entire MMORPG was platform independent, and players could mingle in a game world, whether they were using a PC, PS2, XBOX, etc...

Anyway, I agree with you totally on the grafx card thing. Man, those things are hellishly expensive. That's probably the BIGGEST factor consoles have going for them - that when you pop a game disc in, you're assured it's gonna work, and not have to find out you need to blow another 4k for more memory and another 5/6k for a more capable grafx card. Insane.

ZeroS · Post by **ZeroS** » 04 Apr 2007, 21:43

Mikdog wrote:Well, I think they did that with a recent Final Fantasy game, where the entire MMORPG was platform independent, and players could mingle in a game world, whether they were using a PC, PS2, XBOX, etc...

Anyway, I agree with you totally on the grafx card thing. Man, those things are hellishly expensive. That's probably the BIGGEST factor consoles have going for them - that when you pop a game disc in, you're assured it's gonna work, and not have to find out you need to blow another 4k for more memory and another 5/6k for a more capable grafx card. Insane.

My concerns exactly!

cYcLIc · Post by **cYcLIc** » 04 Apr 2007, 23:26

I have a simple question. Could a top of the range PC beat the playstation in terms of graphics and performance?

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 05 Apr 2007, 00:40

oh yes, anyday, and from the pictures of the PS3 i saw, the graphics are really poor...

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 05 Apr 2007, 06:52

Fcon_Vpro wrote: Only crap thing is I cant network with my pc friends anymore.

Well from what I understand, that would change in the near future when Vista gets going, and we see LIVE (EVERWHERE) in action. I stand to be corrected on this, but as far as I know it will work with titles like R6 Vegas, TDU and say Unreal Tournament 3 when it gets released. Not to mention Halo2.

As for the graphics question by cYcLIc, I think it's obvious that the PC should dominate on that front, but MS also has the option to give the Xenos (360 GPU) DX10 functionality. And by this I refer back to my post on the second page.

For now, I haven't seen the PS3 in action, and would love to, so as for the PS3's graphics, I can't comment. And in the end, with time we'll see the real power of the PS3.

Now if you take all the bells and whistles comming with the PS3, and it's something you really want, or need, then you don't even need to question what your purchase should be. Personally, and I say personally I can't see myself purchasing the PS3 because I don't really need all the extras. If I did need a bigger hard drive, say when IPTV is functional, well then I'll purchase the 120gb which by that time might be cheaper.

As for Blue-Ray....hell I'm still enjoying normal DVD's on SDTV, and by the time I go out to buy an HDTV, by then I'll look at either a dedicated Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player.

For now, gaming on my 19" LCD works fine for me, and if I want to play a game of Tiger Woods or Top Spin2 or maybe some racing in PGR3 with my buddies, I'll hook it onto my TV.

Well right now, I'm just waiting for Army of 2, Mass Effect, Forza Motor Sport 2, Bio Shock, Unreal Tournament 3 and of course Halo 3.

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 05 Apr 2007, 10:25

As for the graphics question by cYcLIc, I think it's obvious that the PC should dominate on that front, but MS also has the option to give the Xenos (360 GPU) DX10 functionality. And by this I refer back to my post on the second page.

Xenos isn't DX10. Having unified shaders doesn't make it DX10 and is not strictly a part of the DX10 specs. In fact, the original G80 spec didn't have unified shaders and was still DX10 compliant. Xenos is better than DX9 but not DX10. Maybe they would call it DX 9.1 or 9.5 if it was standardized, but it's not.

As for PC vs Console graphics, we'll have to wait for Crysis, Alan Wake and Killzone 2 etc to be released before making a direct comparison of the best of the best. The GPUs in the consoles are already outdated when comparing them to G80 and R600 but they are closed systems. The software can be made to run much more efficiently because the devs don't have to compensate for 10,000 different hardware combinations.

It's also a matter of preference, consoles run on relatively low res displays (even the PS3 doesn't have many 1080p games yet) and the textures are less detailed because of memory limitations but they have better special effects in many cases. PC graphics are sharper and more detailed but sometimes have reduced effects to allow people with 7300GS's etc to be able to play the game.

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 05 Apr 2007, 10:36

Okay maybe not complete DX10, but DX10 class functionality.

Things get even better when you factor in the Xenos’ MEMEXPORT ability which allows it to enable “streamout” which opens the door for Xenos to achieve DX10 class functionality. A shame Microsoft chose to disable Xenos’ other 16 pipelines to improve yields and keep costs down. Not many are even aware that the 360’s GPU has the exact same number of pipelines as ATI’s unreleased R600, but to keep costs down and to make the GPU easier to manufacture, Microsoft chose to disable one of the shader arrays containing 16 pipelines. What MEMEXPORT does is it expands the graphics pipeline in more general purpose and programmable manner.

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=9