why are we paying so much ??

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:17

Ok I dont get it !!!
everywhere on the net the Ati 4850 gets sold for about $200 ( R1600 ) now why in the flippen hell do we get our local retailers selling it for between R2400 and R3100. WTF, that is not rite or am I just looking in the wrong places ??

And the excuse of, welcome so SA is not gonna cut it, I need actual answers. FFS.

*this is me irritated*

Post by **Stuart** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:20

So why don't you buy one for $200, import it, pay the shipping, pay the import duties and see what it comes to. Then if you have to RMA it, you can pay to send it back again from wherever you bought it, and probably again when they send it back to you, plus the import duties again.

Or you can just pay R2.5k and get it locally, with all that stuff already included.

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:24

so what it gets made and packaged in the US ???

Ark · Post by **Ark** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:27

schase wrote:So why don't you buy one for $200, import it, pay the shipping, pay the import duties and see what it comes to. Then if you have to RMA it, you can pay to send it back again from wherever you bought it, and probably again when they send it back to you, plus the import duties again.

Or you can just pay R2.5k and get it locally, with all that stuff already included.

But dude, local suppliers get all that in bulk, so I seriously doubt it will come up to that much

Post by **Stuart** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:30

Ark wrote:But dude, local suppliers get all that in bulk, so I seriously doubt it will come up to that much

Well, I'm sure they might get some sort of a bulk discount, but how many of those cards do you think they order at a time?

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:30

Ark wrote:But dude, local suppliers get all that in bulk, so I seriously doubt it will come up to that much

Exactly . . .

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 14:37

So you are telling me that paying almost DOUBLE what the rest of the world is paying, and I do mean rest of the world, ( US, UK, Sweden freaken Australia, And it wont surprise me if you can get it for cheaper in ZIM) is fine with you and that import cost make up all that ??
That just sounds ridiculous. I can accept a bit of a higher price, I know we are on the southern tip of Africa, and people are scared to some here and peddle their goods cuz of the crime and what not. But dammit, a good price would be R2000.

halo · Post by **halo** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:00

PhReaK_K wrote:So you are telling me that paying almost DOUBLE what the rest of the world is paying, and I do mean rest of the world, ( US, UK, Sweden freaken Australia, And it wont surprise me if you can get it for cheaper in ZIM) is fine with you and that import cost make up all that ??
That just sounds ridiculous. I can accept a bit of a higher price, I know we are on the southern tip of Africa, and people are scared to some here and peddle their goods cuz of the crime and what not. But dammit, a good price would be R2000.

even though your point of view is valid you arent looking at it from a business point of view.

In the US, the price of those cards isnt 200$, its 200$ excluding tax, and tax depends on which state you purchase the cards from, ranging from 7.5-15% so worst case one card could cost up to 230$. the price SA importers pay per card is less than this, lets say 10%, that means SA importers pay 207$ per card...

now factor in costs of Shipping, handling fees and customs and you are sitting some where at the 250$ mark.... now add markup ( or else there is no point in selling goods) say 50%, meaning 375$ per card on the shelf, at 8 rand per dollar = R3000.... I think you are paying a fair price in SA... sure it isnt cheap, but when you consider the costs involved, it aint all that bad...

It could be worse, you could want to by a PS3 and find out that SA prices are ..... about twice the cost of the same PS3 in the US... hell my 80GB PS3 with a dual shock 3 controller and MGS4 and a bluetooth head set cost me than a 40GB PS3 in SA.... now thats expensive!

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:03

UK pay about 200E and Aus pay about the same as us. Brazil has it worse, they have exorbitant import duties IIRC. Try import it yourself and you'll end up getting it for slightly cheaper. It will stabilize at about R2k once the initial release hype dies down.

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:08

Hex_Rated wrote:UK pay about 200E and Aus pay about the same as us. Brazil has it worse, they have exorbitant import duties IIRC. Try import it yourself and you'll end up getting it for slightly cheaper. It will stabilize at about R2k once the initial release hype dies down.

yea, we will then have to wait... again..
damn !!!
*facepalm*

Mow · Post by **Mow** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:16

I can see these cards going for 1700 soon.

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:17

A few years ago it used to be that we'd have to wait 3 months for the component to even make it into the country. At least now we get it the same week (even day) so you shouldn't complain so much.

The retailers that make the mission to get it to us as quick as they do have every right to charge what ever they want. If you don't want to pay that amount, you don't have to. It's not like it's bread or air or something you have to have.

I can see these cards going for 1700 soon.

Definitely. Probably about 2 months time after nVidia is forced to drop their prices.

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:18

Mow wrote:I can see these cards going for 1700 soon.

I can but only pray that you are speaking the truth ... and the visions you see are not drug induced hallucinations

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:24

[quote"Hex_Rated"]
The retailers that make the mission to get it to us as quick as they do have every right to charge what ever they want. If you don't want to pay that amount, you don't have to. It's not like it's bread or air or something you have to have. [/quote]

mmm, like we have to accept Telkom pricing paired with bad service, or Eskom price hikes, or windows charging R5000 for an OS, etc. Just because we don't have a choice does not make it right.

Yea and I can remember the days where we used to ait months hell sometimes six months for stuff to even hit our shore, and that was not a long time ago. I am still just saying that does not make it right.

The mentality of " you need it we have it, and if you don't want to pay then your screwed " is wrong to start off with.

If they can sell it for cheaper and still make a profit, why not ?

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:30

Telkom and ESKOM are monopolies, the graphics hardware business is not.

So why don't you start importing graphics cards then? You've obviously found a gap in the market that no one else can see.

Hman · Post by **Hman** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:32

Rule of thumb for getting IT prices in SA:

Take [US$ price x (current exchange rate + 20c)] + 1000 = SA Price.

That formula is pretty accurate most of the time.

PhReaK_K · Post by **PhReaK_K** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:36

and the people that import and sell is clearly have a monopoly??
As you put it, importing yourself just does not make sense .. So we have to get it from them.

On the other hand they are probly just taking advantage of people that need to have the biggest e-penis, cuz they dont mind buying overpriced stuff. Lets see in a month or two what happens ??

Zana · Post by **Zana** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:42

dont forget the custardy customs... this is also an unecessary add on , pluss the VAT which goes to goverment, to keep them fat and well fed..
These items get added on parts and components, as well as software disks. Yup its ****** , unfair world... I still dont understand how and why the exchange system works... the ups and downs of price exchanges and so on so forth...i find it makes no sense.

VoodooProphetII · Post by **VoodooProphetII** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:45

Looking at it from a financial business point of view:

You purchase said item for R2000.00. You need to pay import duties on said item, which is between 14% to 16% (I think). But what about shipping. Now say you bring in 20 units, it will work out cheaper on your shipping then to bring in only 1, 2 or maybe even 5 units.

Now the shipping for 20 items would be: say roughly "R1000.00" from the US to your door. Now I'm not too sure about this, but right when we import stuff from SA to Swaziland they include the shipping to the cost price of the products being imported, before they calculate the import duties, but lets just say that's not the case.

So the price for each item works out 2000, plus say 15% would be R2300 plus the shipping R2350 (R1000 divide by the 20 units. But now you need to make some profit. Now say you add 20% contribution. That would take the price per unit up to R2760.00. Adding the 14% vat you sitting with R3146.40. Now you might think that 20% contribution / profit is a lot. Well to be honest it's a little low. That 20% is what's called gross contribution. You still have your indirect cost. Your overhead labour, your building maintenance, and all those other sometimes big expenses, which is not possible unless you reach budget on turnover. But even if you reach budget, that 20% could still be insufficient, for now you but sitting with what is called profit at the gate.

There are also the admin overheads and sales and marketing that some companies leave separate before getting to operating profit / profit before tax.

Now I know this is maybe an explanation why big companies charge what they charge, but there a lot more other costs I didn't even mention.

I'm not saying that we always paying a fair price, I'm just say that there's more to it then just these general calculations we so easily do to justify why we get upset about what we paying for some things.

I got my G92 GTS a week after it got released for roughly R2500.00 That's exactly R1000 cheaper then what it was available for in SA. Now the reason I got it so cheap was the fact that I was in Washington DC for December. Now that's just brilliant. But...what did my plane ticket cost me, and not to mention other costs included in me being in the US.

Direct comparisons doesn't always work.

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 30 Jun 2008, 15:47

PhReaK_K wrote:and the people that import and sell is clearly have a monopoly??
As you put it, importing yourself just does not make sense .. So we have to get it from them.

LOL. There is no monopoly, anyone can buy and sell. It just doesn't make sense because the margins are so small which is what everyone in this thread has been trying to explain to you. It's not because of some grand worldwide conspiracy to keep hardware expensive in South Africa.

You could probably import an HD4850 for R2,000 if you wanted to. But is it worthwhile when you can get one for R2,300 from Landmarkpc or another e-tailer who has already gone through all the effort of importing and taken all the risk.

dont forget the custardy customs... this is also an unecessary add on

Customs works to discourage people from importing products from overseas which could be made locally. They are there to improve our own economy. AFAIK there are very little to no customs on most IT products because SA does not have their own local producer of most IT goods. Most of the additional cost of importing is from taxes and shipping.

wizardofid · Post by **wizardofid** » 30 Jun 2008, 23:21

Customs works to discourage people

Tax!! need is say more SARS is the devil.It's just a money making scheme thats all..I worked long enough at the airport I should know.You can import as much as you want it's the vat that SARS is after which it loses from an import.

They are there to improve our own economy

uhmm that statement is false.

Either way making it locally or importing some thing your still going to pay tax.

Zana · Post by **Zana** » 30 Jun 2008, 23:29

I agree fully with wizzard of id, the system stinks...SARS is the Devil, and the government is the antichrist....
They dont care for smaller business that need to grow.. they wanna hog everything, and be scruges

andyddr · Post by **andyddr** » 30 Jun 2008, 23:33

PhReaK_K

I've been down the road of importing goods from the US and let me break it down for you:

Ati 4850 - $199.00
Shipping from online store to forwarding company: $6.00
Handling cost of forwarding company: $10.00
Payment into forward company account (4.7% of $199.00): $9.36
Shipping and insurance: $55.00
VAT on total: $39.11

Total: $318.47
Converted into Rands (at 8.0): R2547.76

Obviously the large suppliers in SA get a nice discount on bulk goods as well as save a lot on shipping (sea freight) so let's take off $100.00 per card. That leaves us with a theoretical price of R1747.76 (supplier selling price). Add to that their mark-up as well as VAT. Then the retailers need to add their little bit as well as VAT again.
So why are prices so high? It's not the suppliers or retailers, but rather Mr. Taxman.

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 01 Jul 2008, 00:22

wizardofid wrote:
Customs works to discourage people
Tax!! need is say more SARS is the devil.It's just a money making scheme thats all..I worked long enough at the airport I should know.You can import as much as you want it's the vat that SARS is after which it loses from an import.

They are there to improve our own economy

uhmm that statement is false.

Either way making it locally or importing some thing your still going to pay tax.

Whether you believe it works or not is irrelevant. Import taxation's main purpose is to deter people from importing foreign products and to encourage the growth of native industry. Done correctly it should be more beneficial to a countries economy than detrimental. What are the duties on IT equipment anyways since you worked at an airport?

Interfan · Post by **Interfan** » 01 Jul 2008, 01:06

Import duties are protectionism BS imho. Meant to protect the weak and in the end hurting the consumer.

Totally against any form of duties or important levies. See no point in artificial protecting companies or industries. If they can't stand on their own feet than they should be operating in the first place.

On duties. If I remember correctly Mister Manuel a few budgets back removed duties from certain computer components. He kept import vat but took away the duties. At least that's what I remember. Those in the know correct me if my memory has failed me.