Watercooling Hassels

[Thug4life]

Hi all.

I have recently had a bad experience with water cooling. I had installed the bloody thing soo carefully and there wasn't a single rebelionous drop of water trying to turm my state of the art motherboard into a smoldering wreck. Allas condensation! MOisture in the air condenses on the outside of the tubes and runs down the tubes to the blocks. In my case it was the Grafix card that went when the water landed on it. My beautiful 5900 all up in smoke. 3000 bucks. So my final words on this miserable bloody subject is don't get watercooling.

[Azgard]

I have a second hand water cooling system and it works fine for me. Still a bit worried about the water inside my PC though.

Mine only cools the cpu through, the pump is weak and I don't really have much else to cool except the n/s bridges anyway.

Anyway sorry to heard that If that happened to me I would be very unhappy to say the least

[-ASSASSIN-]

My beautiful 5900 all up in smoke. 3000 bucks.

All I can say is "I would like to express my condolences.... "

No seriously, that is sad, melancholic in fact....

[naughty]

well all i can say is that for condensation to occur outside the tubing you would need to go 5 degrees below the dew point which again depends on the ambient temps and most of the time water wouldnt even begin to get to near ambient temps alone leave being 5 degrees below your dew point - there is no way in hell that your watercooling could get you block to around 15 degrees celcius or even your water to around 10 degrees which is more or less what it would take to create that condensation

unless you did something totally stupid like trying to run your watercooling with iceblocks in the reservoir or something like that

in which case you probably deserve everything that happened to you - if you werent running ice in there then my apologies but ive been running watercooled for around 6 months with a custom watercooled rig and havent had a problem at all and maybe if you can tell us what equipment (watercooling related) that you are using im sure it had to be a leak of some kind - i also researched water and phase change cooling for over a year and yes MrBean and enigma and solo would know a bit more about those than i do but im about there with theoretical knowledge and ive never heard of such a thing as you claim - and ive seen plenty watercooled systems in my time

also most of the time watercooling doesnt blow the item when you get a leak since you should have been using distilled water instead of tap water and once the rig switches off with the resulting short circuit you leave it off to dry for about two days and clean up the leak - redo the watercooling loop with an extended leak test and everything works after that two or three days

take your ambient temps and apply the relevant to calculate your dew point then subtract 5 degrees from that figure and in most of south africa you will see that the condensation will only occur if you water was indeed cooled down to below 15 degrees so i definitely dont buy that story - something doesnt seem kosher there

[Thug4life]

well there might have been a couple of ice blocks knocking around I take it that this isn't a good idea. I thought it would heep the whole joint cooler as it is a big kit with 2x HDD grafix and cpu coolers by the time the water got to the second hdd (the last part of the cycle) it was pretty warm so I thought that a few ice blocks would keep the water cooler longer - and it did for about 2 weeks until this whole thing happened and that is why I didn't attach any significance to the ice as it had worked fine with it for quite a while. But the grafix card FRIED . Ok well then I suppose I should change my final comment to don't use ice in your water cooling kit.

Well at least on the bright sige that means that I don't need to scrap the water cooling kit aswell as buy a new grafix card. Thanks for the heads up naughty.

By the way I have a Thermatic Kit that I bought from over-clock.co.uk with extra block for the grafix card and two hdd coolers from overclockers.co.uk

Cheers

[Thrall]

Yowch - why can't the lessons that PCs teach us be inexpensive ones?

[goku]

Yowch - why can't the lessons that PCs teach us be inexpensive ones?

A modders worst nightmare. One mistake and POOF.At least it's not like working C4 or something

[Synkronos]

naughty: It may be obvious to you, but not to everyone else

[Y0da]

hehe - I've never heard of someone overcooling their system.

[naughty]

well sorry if i seemed overagressive in my reply but that wasnt my intention - and now as a result we have all learned that ice in the watercooling is defenitely a no-no unless you have covered the parts being cooled with die-electric grease and also insulate the tubing

plain watercooling is totally safe - and im sorry the guy had to learn his lesson the hard way - i certainly do hope that it does continue working once everything dries since a graphics card is indeed a big loss to bear - he should set everything back to failsafe defaults in the bios after that two days and as i said an extended leak test and stay away from the fridge and freezer until he learns about supercooling LOL - then when everything seems right and hopefully the graphics card works again then you can start re-tweaking

there are material that you can put around the cpu soclket such as neoprene and also materials that you can get from freezer companies which will prevent any condensation that forms from leaking into the case - my watercooling keeps my cpu at a constant idle of 34/36 degrees and full loads that havent ever gone above 45 even after multiple runs of 3dmark whilst overclocking a 1.73ghz chip to 2.4 ghz so watercooling is the way to go - ice definitely cools the water to some cold temps and then the cold water and warmer ambient temps is a bad idea since condensation occurs when something that is freezing comes into contact with something far warmer - safe temps in my opinion would be around 5 degrees above ambient and since 21 degrees is generally considered room temperature i would say you shouldnt have anything going to below 27/28 degrees unless you prepare it for that using the neoprene and die-electric grease - and then even supercooling can become safe - Mrbean runs his vapochill evap block at -30 degrees and the cpu is at around 0 degrees and thats with an overclock that gets his 3.2 chip to around 3.8 to 4 ghz for daily usage and he hasnt had a single problem with that either

hoepefully we now know that when trying something like this its better to ask instead of experimenting which can cost big-time - there are lots of guys out there who know about this stuff and are willing to share if asked

as i said thug4life - im sorry if i was over sarcastic but please do try and see if that card is really fried or wether it works after 3 to 4 days - im sure it should work - cos once it short circuits most of the time it just switches the entire pc off before any permanent damamge is done unless you are totally unlucky

[SS_Titanic]

Did you know that water only condensates when there is a big variance in temp? Don't remember the exact variance. IOW your system was not cooling sufficiently. Reasons for this is as follows:

Water is moving to slow in the loop
Your pipes are to thick
Your pump is stuffed
You have to little water ciculating the system.

Remember these when running liquid cooling.

[naughty]

ok ss_titanic - just to correct a few things you say

Water is moving to slow in the loop

flow rate has little if any effect on a well designed watercooling system - a nice well designed block with an efficient radiator will work well - and the water cannot move too fast since it has to remain in one place long enough for the heat to be transferred which is why most watercoolers will be looking to use turbulence to slow down the flow rate sufficiently for that transfer to take place - remember turbulence principle = watercoolers best friend

Your pipes are to thick

at the very worst will cause laminar flow (which is where the water in the sides are doing all the cooling while the water in the center of the pipe does nothing and also sometimes flows at different rates - but normally thicker pipes increase flowrate which means a slower pump (thus obviously less power required and even more obviously less heat generated)

Your pump is stuffed

will have very little to do with the temps until the pump completely stops working and there is absolutely no circulation whatsoever - i have forgotten to switch on my watercooling on three occasions and logged onto the net and browsed for 15 minutes - thanks to bios setting for thermal related shutdown at 60 degrees all that happened was that the system shut down after a small alarm buzzer from my mobo - then i switched the watercooling on and rerstarted the machine and - MBM5 showed it back at 36 within one minute

You have to little water ciculating the system.

the smaller the loop - the more effecient it works - miles of tubing means more movement required and using stronger pumps which will need to pump the water harder for good circulation thus add heat of their own which can decrease your actual cooling power

Did you know that water only condensates when there is a big variance in temp

i agree there 100% - well done - only the term is condenses not condensates but nevertheless a great point

Don't remember the exact variance

you wont ever need to know it since you shouldnt be reaching anywhere close to there with a good watercooled system - as ive said above its a complex formula worked out from your measured ambient temps then working out the dew point at that particular time and this factor can change in as little as 10 minutes if the weather decides to change

Remember these when running liquid cooling

lemme not say anything about this

[SS_Titanic]

Yes you are right.

Then let me ask you this, why did your sytem go on you?
Why if you are such an expert did it not work for you?
This petty...we are not here to argue but to make a point.
Mixed up my sates and ses, ,,,whatever china.

Then again where did you get your cooling system? Who made it you?
How high are you above sea level? What is the average temprature where you stay?
How educated are you when it comes to physics?

[naughty]

dude - LOL if it means that much to you then you > me LOL

my watercooling switched my machine off three times and saved it which means well designed LOL - my machine is still running and is amongst the 15 fastest in this country and it does not take much to see that whatever i do know about physics you know even less

as for watercooling - despite your watery nickname you know almost next to nothing - thats not an opinion - thats a fact

Then let me ask you this, why did your sytem go on you?

it did - thats news to me

Why if you are such an expert did it not work for you?

it did work - that was my point - can you not read properly

i have a custom made watercooled system with the waterblock being imported - using a golf2 heatercore (big bottom mofo) with a 600l/ph pump - i bought a few things from Mrean and modified it - i have also subsequently built many watercooled rigs - and im upgrading mine right now to include a gpu and chipset block

many forum goers in this country know me and my system - i dont have such pleasure with yours - - show me a watercooled system you did and ill change my mind about you - i live in durban so im at sea level DUH like you needed a rocket science degree to figure that out - average temps - my guess is as good as the tv weather bureaus and i try to spell right when i post also im 37 years old (you seem far younger from your response) - as for my education if i had a reason to send you my CV i would but its probably too much reading for you

anything else you care to know im here to comply my dear sir

also bewarned - do not call me a donkey in a personal message ever again and realize its not about you or me "winning" - cos the loser is the guy who listens to uneducated comments - lets not try too hard to figure whose those were

[goku]

Hi Guys (naughty and SS Titanic)

I see this is getting a real heated discussion(Without water cooling ) but lets not started flamming each other.

The reason for this forum is to help each other and get input and suggestions from members who knows more than others and not who knows more or are right.

With you two guys input we(not so wise members) learn from your good deal. I personally know SS titanic and his quite clever as for Naughty what I read in the forums you know what your talking about and when you give advise I know it can be trusted.

So please stop fighting and put your knowledge together so that we (not so wise members) can gain from it.

[naughty]

goku im not heated up (yet) but there is merit in what you say so ill leave it as

SS_TITANIC is > little ol me

still doesnt mean that he has the first clue about watercooling though

[Thug4life]

Ok well thanks for the info Naughty. No prob about being sarcastic I think I deserved it as I should have thought of the problems but as I say it was a long loop of pipes between all the bits and pieces and the water wasn't cool by the time it reached the last item (second hdd). Anywy I will be trying the grafix card at regular intervals and will keep you posted.

Lastly I hope that it is a lesson to the rest of you modders out there - don't do what I did and come to regret it like me

Thanks again Naughty 4 sharing your knowledge on the subject with us.

[goku]

Thanks Naughty