Blu-Ray or HD-DVD?

[Cupis]

knowing that now... yes i think the combined thing will end up happeneing....

so its just going to be another battle of the manufactures and peoples preference won't effect us much if we have the tech that supports both

[Rayne]

Blu-Ray's been cracked already.

Oke's are happily at work decrypting their DVD's as we speak.

[rusty3280]

If you look at the electronics history, it shows that short names always wins the war, take vhs and betamax for instance. I therefore go with HD-dvd, even though its smaller in size. It also already has the most backing, the likes of Microsoft, HP, LG, Samsung, Aopen to name a few. All the big names in optical media. The blue-ray will be in PS3, but HD-dvd will be in the next Xbox and also Nintendo's WII predecessor.
There are a few manufacturers that has gone the route of creating a drive that will support both formats, but then the price comes into effect. Also the HD-DVD is backwards compatible, is a lot cheaper to manufature. The HD-dvd discs in itself will be a lot cheaper per gig compared to the Blueray-dvds.

Cheers

[Cupis]

well if you shorten blu-ray to br then it takes the cake if you go by the shortest name thing

and im sure samsung were one of the first to produce blu ray player and drive but i guess we will have to see what happens don't we

[Rayne]

It doesn't matter.

Both will sell imho, one will simply out-sell the other and dual drives are already available btw.

Both formats has also already been succesfully decrypted, by the same hacker btw, long before either one of them became mainstream.

Once again, content protection failed miserably.

[ryanrich]

There are dual drives as well as double sided dual media, so I shall be getting that to be safe...

[Cupis]

It doesn't matter.

Both will sell imho, one will simply out-sell the other and dual drives are already available btw.

Both formats has also already been succesfully decrypted, by the same hacker btw, long before either one of them became mainstream.

Once again, content protection failed miserably.

agreed

[Hex_Rated]

If you look at the electronics history, it shows that short names always wins the war, take vhs and betamax for instance.

No offence, but this is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. So what your saying is AMD will triumph over Intel because their name is shorter? The brand / product name is important for marketing, but having a few extra letters doesn't make a difference.

Some examples for you:

Pentium vs Athlon - Pentium 4 outsold the A64 even though Athlon was arguably the better product
XBox vs Playstation 2 - Playstation wins
Gameboy Advance DS vs PSP - Gameboy wins

[Hex_Rated]

Once again, content protection failed miserably.

I think they knew it was crackable from the start. Admittedly, I didn't think it would be this easy.

Conspiracy theories:

1) The encryption was weak on purpose so that consumers would buy the version that was easiest to copy. Even if you have no intention to pirate, wouldn't you prefer buying discs that you could make backups of? Or you invested R50,000 in an HDTV and video card 18 months ago that doesn't support HDCP playback, now you can bypass the encryption instead of watching downscaled content.

Both versions have now been cracked so it will come down to the easiest to crack or how much pirated content is offered on which media type.

2) The encryption was weak on purpose so that the content producers could get a government sanctioned internet tax to recoup their "losses" from piracy. Copy protection schemes will be removed after the formats admit defeat and internet usage will be taxed and a significant portion sent to the providers for compensation. Some regulatory panel could look at the percentage of torrents offering certain movies and the corresponding labels would be compensated accordingly.

The more paranoid of the theories but still plausible. Especially in America where the politicians are on the MPAA and RIAA payrolls.

[Zaa]

If you look at the electronics history, it shows that short names always wins the war, take vhs and betamax for instance. I therefore go with HD-dvd, even though its smaller in size. It also already has the most backing, the likes of Microsoft, HP, LG, Samsung, Aopen to name a few. All the big names in optical media. The blue-ray will be in PS3, but HD-dvd will be in the next Xbox and also Nintendo's WII predecessor.
There are a few manufacturers that has gone the route of creating a drive that will support both formats, but then the price comes into effect. Also the HD-DVD is backwards compatible, is a lot cheaper to manufature. The HD-dvd discs in itself will be a lot cheaper per gig compared to the Blueray-dvds.

Cheers

Blue-ray actually has more support from the industry as well as Hollywood.

[SilverBack]

Im brining back the dead! Searched and searched and cant find much, and also not gonna start a new thread...

This HD TV and high definition DVD's has sparked my curiosity...so now Im trying to learn as much as possible. I know how the HDTV's work, and 720 vs 1080 and 1080i vs 1080p etc etc. But on actual high difinition DVD etc Im unclear. Got some questions...

1. I know there was this "fight" between BlueRay and HD-DVD's...Im still unclear as who came out tops? I asked an oke at Look and Listen, he recons BlueRay is the clear winner and that it wins hands down compared to HD-DVD. Is he correct? He says the picture quality is much better on BlueRay compared to HD-DVD?

2. Okie also says BlueRay players are expensive...like R12k for cheapest one and that if I go the BlueRay route, I should just get a PS3 as it has a built in BlueRay player.

3. High def will be awesome with watching DVD's etc, but what about TV? I know DSTV has the high def MNet channel. Is it really worth getting a HD PVR for this, as not all shows / movies are broadcast in high def?

Cheers
SB

[DarkStar]

1. BluRay won long ago. They don't even make HD-DVD drives anymore.

2. Yup. Best bet. You also get a game console as an added bonus

3. Can't answer you there, mate. soz

[SilverBack]

Thanks for the info DarkStar!

[OnlyOneKenobi]

Im brining back the dead! Searched and searched and cant find much, and also not gonna start a new thread...

This HD TV and high definition DVD's has sparked my curiosity...so now Im trying to learn as much as possible. I know how the HDTV's work, and 720 vs 1080 and 1080i vs 1080p etc etc. But on actual high difinition DVD etc Im unclear. Got some questions...

1. I know there was this "fight" between BlueRay and HD-DVD's...Im still unclear as who came out tops? I asked an oke at Look and Listen, he recons BlueRay is the clear winner and that it wins hands down compared to HD-DVD. Is he correct? He says the picture quality is much better on BlueRay compared to HD-DVD?

Blu-Ray won... HD DVD was discontinued... As for comparing the quality of Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD, I couldn't say, I never saw them side by side, and whenever there was Hi definition footage running in a store, you'd never know whether it was a Blu-Ray disc or an HD-DVD Disc.

2. Okie also says BlueRay players are expensive...like R12k for cheapest one and that if I go the BlueRay route, I should just get a PS3 as it has a built in BlueRay player.

That's bull, you can get a blu-ray player for around R3500 now. Or, you could get a PS3 if you wanted...

3

. High def will be awesome with watching DVD's etc, but what about TV? I know DSTV has the high def MNet channel. Is it really worth getting a HD PVR for this, as not all shows / movies are broadcast in high def?

Cheers
SB

I'd rather hang on before getting an HD PVR. Yeah, HD TV is awesome, but with only one channel available, I don't think it's worth it right now... hang on until there's a wider selection, and the price of the HD PVR drops.

[SilverBack]

Thanks OnlyOneKenobi!

One last noob question....will a BlueRay player play normal DVDs, or will I need a seperate DVD player to play my normal DVDs?

[SilverBack]

double post

[Tribble]

It can - but I wouldn't. We have Bluray in a PS3 and an HD Player. We also have the DSTV HD channel and the PVR. It is awesome - I must admit to that. Unfortunately there are tons of bugs in their software and last week it wiped out all our recordings (and there were tons). If you are strapped for cash - I would wait until they get their software sorted out first.

BluRay and HD are both awesome. Can't really tell the difference personally between the disks. Just they not making any new HD disks. As far as I am aware - the PS3 is still the best player on the market at the best price. I could be wrong though. But if you like your TV and your movies - do it! You won't be sorry.

[OnlyOneKenobi]

Thanks OnlyOneKenobi!

One last noob question....will a BlueRay player play normal DVDs, or will I need a seperate DVD player to play my normal DVDs?

Blu-Ray is usually backwards compatible with DVD's, Video CD's, etc... but I suppose you'd just need to double check before you buy.

[GDI_Lord]

This might be a throwback to the old days with the whole DVD/CD thing (if you don't remember it, get off my lawn) but I would keep the BR drive for BR disks and have a separate drive for DVDs and CDs.

[StarBound]

PS3 = Best BR player according to a few people. That other thing to keep in mind is you need your own speaker set so the sound can be as good or bad as your budget allows.

480/720/1080 are just your resolutions (hight pixels) of your TV or movie. 480 is standard NTSC while 576 is standard PAL. 720/1080 are avalible in both NTSC and PAL I think.

i / p : i = interleaved which is 30 frames a second. p = progressive which is full 60 frames a second. Progressive is better.

I wont take DSTV as a benchmark for HDTV. The standard broadcast is worse than it should be so even if I go for HD DSTV I dont know if I will get the proper thing.

[OnlyOneKenobi]

i / p : i = interleaved which is 30 frames a second. p = progressive which is full 60 frames a second. Progressive is better.

No, that's not quite right... the "P" in progressive scan doesn't have anything to do with the frame rate, it just means that the video is output in progressive scan, ( not interlaced )

1080p and 720p can be 60fps or 30fps ( actually 29.97 which is the NTSC framerate ) or even 24, or 25 fps, if it's running at 30fps that doesn't mean it suddenly becomes 1080i

ATSC and DVB support 1080p video, but only at the frame rates of 24, 25\6, and 30 frames per second (1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p30) and their 1000/1001-rate slow versions (e.g., 29.97 frames per second instead of 30). Higher frame rates, such as 1080p50 and 1080p60, could only be sent with more bandwidth or if a more advanced codec (such as H.264/MPEG-4 AVC and AVS) were used. Higher frame rates such as 1080p50 and 1080p60 are foreseen as the future broadcasting standard for production.[3]

1080i is the shorthand name of a format of high-definition video modes. The number 1080 denotes the amount of horizontal scan lines - also known as vertical resolution - and the letter i stands for interlaced. In the alternate format of high-definition video mode, known as 1080p, the p would stand for progressive scan.

[Hex_Rated]

The frames in the interlaced format actually only provide half the resolution that the frames in 1080p. They divide the height component in half and space the corresponding lines of data. They only do supply half the resolution which in turn get filled in by the next frame. They use a form of "trickery" to allow people to see the frames in the full resolution. If you analysed each frame, 1080i frames would only contain 1920x540 worth of viable information.

As a result, 1080i sources often have double the frame rates of (older) 1080p to make sure that this trickery works properly. My 1080p set works at 59 and 60 refresh (1080p60?) but I think that it is a second gen Full HD set. I've heard of 24 or 30FPS full HD progressive sets.

[SilverBack]

It can - but I wouldn't. We have Bluray in a PS3 and an HD Player. We also have the DSTV HD channel and the PVR. It is awesome - I must admit to that. Unfortunately there are tons of bugs in their software and last week it wiped out all our recordings (and there were tons). If you are strapped for cash - I would wait until they get their software sorted out first.

BluRay and HD are both awesome. Can't really tell the difference personally between the disks. Just they not making any new HD disks. As far as I am aware - the PS3 is still the best player on the market at the best price. I could be wrong though. But if you like your TV and your movies - do it! You won't be sorry.

Thanks for the info Tribble!

Thanks OnlyOneKenobi!

One last noob question....will a BlueRay player play normal DVDs, or will I need a seperate DVD player to play my normal DVDs?

Blu-Ray is usually backwards compatible with DVD's, Video CD's, etc... but I suppose you'd just need to double check before you buy.

Yeah, will do that. Thinking the PS3 is the way to go...

PS3 = Best BR player according to a few people. That other thing to keep in mind is you need your own speaker set so the sound can be as good or bad as your budget allows.

480/720/1080 are just your resolutions (hight pixels) of your TV or movie. 480 is standard NTSC while 576 is standard PAL. 720/1080 are avalible in both NTSC and PAL I think.

i / p : i = interleaved which is 30 frames a second. p = progressive which is full 60 frames a second. Progressive is better.

I wont take DSTV as a benchmark for HDTV. The standard broadcast is worse than it should be so even if I go for HD DSTV I dont know if I will get the proper thing.

Did lotsa reading up on the 720 vs 1080 etc...so feel comfortable there.

Thanks for the info...I now feel more enlightened

[OnlyOneKenobi]

As a result, 1080i sources often have double the frame rates of (older) 1080p to make sure that this trickery works properly. My 1080p set works at 59 and 60 refresh (1080p60?) but I think that it is a second gen Full HD set. I've heard of 24 or 30FPS full HD progressive sets.

I have a full HD Video camera, it supports 1080p (60fps), 1080p (30fps) and 720p (60fps) and 720p (30fps)... as well as the standard definition modes at 30fps or 60fps.
The camera doesn't support 1080i - so the double frame rate thing is not for any kind of trickery, it simply gives you an option to display ( or record, in my case ) video at 60fps so that the end result seems smoother.

[Hex_Rated]

But does it support 1080i 30fps? At 1920x1080i the camera is alternating frames at 60fps, the effective output is actually 30fps. If you take the refresh rate of an interlaced display mechanism, you need to half it to get the "progressive" frame rate because it is alternating frames at 1920x540 offset by 1.

Maybe your camera is recording at 120fps which would yield an effective 60fps, I don't know.