Star Wars KOTOR2

SoulErazor · Post by **SoulErazor** » 13 Mar 2005, 15:49

I solved most of my crashing issues, i formatted & reloaded now I'm gonna finish the game & only then install all my crap I had on my system!!!

StarBound · Post by **StarBound** » 13 Mar 2005, 17:41

The game has a name of greatness but the game sux. How could they have done this to us?!

someidiotsa · Post by **someidiotsa** » 21 Mar 2005, 21:07

To those of you who are finding the game to slow,

http://www.tweakguides.com/KOTOR2_1.html

Post by **OnlyOneKenobi** » 22 Mar 2005, 07:59

StarBound wrote:The game has a name of greatness but the game sux. How could they have done this to us?!

The game doesn't suck, it's not as good as the first one, and the story is kinda weird, but it's pretty good overall.

TheAlteredState · Post by **TheAlteredState** » 22 Mar 2005, 20:48

I think it's pretty cool, though at the moment, I also have to play Republic Commando, Tribes and Riddick. So I don't get a chance to play all that often! But I still think it's cool! It will probably get better more into the game, lke the first one!

Crusader · Post by **Crusader** » 02 Apr 2005, 18:41

I just finished the game a few days ago. It's pretty good. Let's face it good RPG's are few and far between. KotOR2 could just as well have been an expansion to the original seeing as nothing except the storyline have changed much.

One word of warning though. My game slowed down to an unplayable level when I reached Dantoine. Luckily patience got me through that bad spot.

They definitely left the playing field wide open for a KotOR3, lets just hope that if and when it comes, they'll have something new to add.

pesospesos · Post by **pesospesos** » 02 Apr 2005, 20:00

ayayai, im stuck with the infamous dantooine error, oh no, there are many of those... no, with the one where you get a black screen. man it makes me angry. I just had THE ultimate jedi ready after playing 32 hrs of the game and the only solution is to reinstall it and start over. GRRRR. Obsidian's got a long way to go...

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 03 Apr 2005, 02:10

OnlyOneKenobi wrote:The game doesn't suck, it's not as good as the first one, and the story is kinda weird, but it's pretty good overall.

The game does suck and it's not just MO. The story is weird b/c they cut a huge chunk(files still on cd) of content for the rushed X-mas release. This game could have surpass the original if they had taken the time.

I've been lurking around lucasfarts and Obsidian for a while waiting for any restoration patch info but I think that aint gonna happen.

Let Lucasarts know that an incomplete game is unacceptable: Petition
http://forums.lucasarts.com/thread.jspa ... 3&tstart=0

http://www.theforce.net/jedicouncil/edi ... 030405.asp

KOTOR2: The Incompletion Controversy
By Craig Dixon

In 2003, Knights of the Old Republic was released to enthralled fans and critics alike. An engrossing story that rivaled that of the movies, impressive, addictive gameplay, and interesting, deep characters helped to make Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic into the 2003 game of the year. Fast forward to December 2004, and the sequel to the 2003 game of the year is already on the shelves, and flying off of them just as quickly. It seemed like a very short time to develop an epic successor to KOTOR. "How can anyone make a game worthy of the KOTOR title under such a deadline?" was the question being asked by fans and professional game critics alike, the task just didn't seem possible. It was indeed too good to be true.

In December 2004, game reviewers at sites such as IGN and Gamespot, brought a sigh of relief to fans of the series around the world when they reported that the game indeed managed to fill the shoes of its older sibling, despite the fact it was developed by Obsidian this time around instead of Bioware. Not only was it given high marks by numerous reviewers, more recently it was awarded "Game of The Year" by RPG Vault and "RPG of the Year" by RPGDot, in addition to similar awards by other groups. Upon initial release the game sales were quite pleasing for LucasArts...of course that was the intention of the December deadline after all. Booming sales, great ratings, awards...the game must be incredible, right? Not quite. Many gamers have since changed their view on the game upon completion.

Upon reaching the later events of KOTOR2, it becomes clearly evident that the game has suffered greatly from its short time in development. It's been uttered on forums around the internet but no major site has been willing to admit it or say it...LucasArts rushed this game onto shelves for holiday sales before it was ready to be released. The latter part of the game is clearly missing cut scenes, certain subplots and many elements of the main plot are left unresolved, gaping plot holes emerge that are never explained, supporting characters of the player character's party completely disappear from the game, never to appear again, with NO explanation as to where they are (evidence of these issues can be found by clicking on the hyperlinks that are provided at the bottom of the page). Bugs have ruined entire files, many gamers have reported constant crashes, having to restart the game entirely, quests that cannot be completed due to bugs, and a generally poor frame rate. The final cut scene, what some people have called a "cliff hanger" is lacking in even the slightest bit of resolve to be considered a cliff hanger.

Let's take a look at "The Empire Strikes Back", which some people have inaccurately compared the game to. "Empire" was a true cliff hanger, it was an example of masterful story telling, and though it was a cliff hanger even it had some resolve, enough to let you comprehend the story. Luke is rescued from his certain doom and is given a new robotic hand, Leia and Luke look out from aboard a Rebel ship into the galaxy knowing they face more challenges. I won't give away any "spoilers" (if it's possible for this non-ending to have any) but the ending would be comparable to ending "Empire" at the moment when Han is frozen. Complete games, books, movies, or any form of medium that is telling a story simply do not end in such a manner! It's preposterous!

In the past few weeks, problems that have arisen as a result of the game's incomplete state have become more and more evident. Numerous audio clips containing lines of cut dialogue have been found within folders on the game discs, events from the games original script that were cut (such as a more fleshed out ending) have also emerged.

One of the strongest pieces of evidence to support the accusations of the game's incompletion is a sub-plot involving G0T0 and Bao-Dur's remote droid. A conflict arises between the two in a video sequence that was left in game and yet a resolution is never shown on-screen.

According to the development team themselves in a recent interview with RPG Vault "...we had this incredible design for a planet of droids. We actually did the first pass on art and built the character models for the location. But we had to look at the schedule and make a big cut after E3. We cut the entire planet. " Not surprisingly, it was a planet you were to visit late in the game?s progression. What was the reason for cutting it? Time constraints. This comment reveals just how damaging this deadline that LucasArts gave to Obsidian was to the development of a complete game with a fleshed-out story.

Upon finishing the game it becomes apparent that visiting the cut planet was important not only for sub-quests involving HK-47 (subquests that cannot be completed in the released version), but it becomes obvious that the events that were supposed to transpire were central to explaining other events on Malachor V. It was central to explaining the resolution between G0T0 and the remote droid. More importantly, it was a key to explaining the final cut scene which currently makes little to no sense, it gives absolutely no explanation of what has happened to the characters or what is going to happen next...and then...the credits roll.

A growing number of fans are upset, angry, and concerned. A petition has been posted at PetionOnline.com demanding that LucasArts and Obsidian take the time and effort needed to re-insert these vital elements back into the game, address other technical bugs, and frame rate issues that plague the game. It is perplexing that the critics have rated the game so highly, one has to wonder how many of them actually completed the game before reviewing it, regardless, their opinions are being increasingly countered by paying customers who are learning that the game is not quite as spectacular as "professional" gaming reviewers have been claiming.

Numerous events, found in the original script can be found in this thread.

Some of the audio tracks cut from the game have leaked onto the internet, they can be found at the Obsidianent Forums.

If you would like to sign the petition, it can be found at PetitionOnline.

This is an important petition to those who feel KOTOR2 was severely damaged by pressure from its deadline. Beyond the purpose of having KOTOR2's story told in its original intended manner, it will send a message to LucasArts that fans feel it is unacceptable to sacrifice the quality of such a potentially fantastic series in order for quicker profit. This petition is for the sake of preserving the value of story telling in the Star Wars universe. To many, the stories Star Wars provides us with are the reason we hold it dear.

We are all aware LucasArts is a business before anything else, but this petition will also send them another message, they will lose fans if they continue their trends of rushing developers and in turn, lose money. Their Christmas deadline was not financially sound in the long-run. A number of people who bought KOTOR2 on launch day without waiting to hear the opinions of others will not be doing so with KOTOR3. I know I won't be. Many people have even claimed to be done supporting LucasArts altogether. If they want our support as customers they need to be willing to release complete products as we are paying full prices.

For additional reading on the issue:
Christopher Buecheler, a member of Gamespy's staff, has expressed his own thoughts on the game, and has expressed his own dissatisfaction with the game's current state of incompletion. He goes against the trend of industry writers who hold the game in high regard. He shares evidence proving that KOTOR2's quality has suffered due to deadline cutting. That editorial can be found at The Resident Cynic: A Rush and A Push.

Craig Dixon
March 4th, 2005

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 03 Apr 2005, 02:13

some more.
Other game sites are begining to notice.
Gamespy

The Resident Cynic: A Rush and A Push
On KotOR II and the continuing tradition of rushing games out the door.
By Christopher Buecheler | Feb. 15, 2005

I am afraid I must disagree with the esteemed Mr. Allen Rausch and his review of KotOR II. While he did knock a star off for the bugs and glitches which plague the game (and which were indeed frustrating), he neglected to address one of the very real issues with the title: the storyline.

Oh, sure, there's discussion of how the game contains a rich, full story with a plot as complex and interwoven as a tapestry. That's true. Right up until a very specific spot in the game, when all of that is tossed aside in favor of hurrying the game out for Christmas, and shoving the player through several obviously rushed endgame levels, without wrapping up half of the story threads (and that's not even getting into how damaging the influence system can be to the story).

I'm not going to spoil the ending for you, nor even dwell too much further on what exactly the issue is, but believe me, it's there. I'm not talking about leaving the story open-ended in order to facilitate sequels. That's fine and I can thoroughly understand it. The problem is that they waste one of the creepiest bad guys in recent history, then promptly send your character off on a series of solo missions, and actually forget to even explain what's happening to the sidekicks you've spent so much time training and equipping.

The storyline is engrossing. It's deeper than KotOR's, expands on the events of the first story, fleshes out the mythology of that era in Star Wars history, and it allows for a lot more depth in the interactions with your sidekicks. That's saying something, since the original title's story, history, and character progression were pretty nifty. But just as the story is starting to wrap up and the "Oh, okay, I think I get it" moments are starting to eclipse the "Wait ... what?" moments (and there are a ton of the latter), the game basically gives up and initiates the mediocre endgame.

In short, I'd have knocked a full second star off the game's review score, bringing it down to three, because of the terrible way in which it abandons everything that made it worth overlooking the bugs, right at the end.

So who's to blame for this? Well, my friends, I did some digging around on the Internet, spent some time on various forums, and found some interesting information. There are massive endgame sequences fully scripted (in the screenplay sense, not the programming sense) that give your sidekick characters much more robust endings. There are even paths that can be taken where some of them will kick off, sacrificing themselves for the main character. Some of the dialog is startlingly moving and all of it would be much better than the poor attempt at Fallout's "glimpse into the future ending" that the game provides.

So we know, then, that Obsidian was planning a much more robust ending for the game. We know that the guys who work at Obsidian are responsible for some of the greatest stories in video-game history. We know that developers, in general, are aware when they're releasing something that's not done, and would largely prefer not to.

Oh, and we know that LucasArts is notorious for handing developers ridiculously short development timetables, and forcing them to shove things out the door before the holiday rush. It's the reason why most of the company's titles suffer in one massive way or the other. Jedi Knight II was relatively bug-free, for example -- Raven Software knows how to make its games work -- but the level design was abysmal, filled with look-the-same hallways and hidden doors. Why? Because they had twelve months to create the game from scratch.

Anyone in the industry will hear "12-month development schedule" and immediately grimace. You can't make a complete game in 12-months, not one of that scale, let alone one the size of KotOR II. It's not possible. So you get Jedi Knight II, a functioning game with mediocre content, or you get KotOR II, a broken game with great content that gets abandoned near the end.

This is symptomatic of most (all) major publishers, but LucasArts seems to have it down to an exact science at this point. I think the only reason KotOR managed to largely avoid these issues is that BioWare was simply too large, too established, and too concerned about its (excellent) reputation to allow LucasArts to bully them. A startup developer working on sequels doesn't have the same luxuries that the world's premiere RPG powerhouse does. I'll be curious to see whether Obsidian is given more time on Neverwinter Nights 2. 'Course ... I didn't like the first game, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

In the end, it comes down to a pretty simple observation: LucasArts knows the Star Wars license is an excuse to print money. Always has been, and probably will be at least for the rest of my life. For the past several years, its policy has been to push out products in that franchise as fast and furiously as possible. Because of this, quality has been spotty, at best. It's an insult to the customers, but it doesn't matter, because the games are going to sell either way. This is a shame, because LucasArts used to invest an unbelievable amount of time and effort into making sure its games kicked bottom.

LucasArts recently underwent a management change. New management stated that it was going to focus on fewer core titles. Then it laid off 32 people in preparation for that new mission. Let's hope at least some of those people were the ones responsible for the last five years of unrealistic schedules and rushed products.

KotOR II was on my "buy immediately, sight-unseen" list, a very sparse list in the last few years. The inevitable KotOR III? I'll wait for the reviews.

TheAlteredState · Post by **TheAlteredState** » 03 Apr 2005, 12:29

Well it is very cool, and very buggy! Wish they would bring out a patch already! Although it won't really help now! I finished it on the easter weekend!

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 03 Apr 2005, 12:35

It's not soley the developers fault. I blame LucasFarts for rushing the game because all they care was $$$. I blame Obsidian for bending over backwards offering a mental BJ for LucasFarts.

It's a sad trend happening between developers and publishers. I came over this Website Plotting Anti-EA Activities

http://www.gamersagainsteagames.com/

Oh man, my windows calendar says it's not April Fools' Day anymore.
These guys are for real!

EA buys sole rights to NFL for next 5 years
EA buys out Dice (makers of the Battlefield series)
EA is going after Ubisoft.
Ea bought out westwood then killed the company
Ea bought out Origin systems then killed that company as well.
They were the makers of RPG series ultima.
EA is now working with ESPN. This means there will be alot of
less competition for sports games in the future.

What are we looking for in a game that we buy. Great graphics, good story line, Runs smooth, Good tech support, Fair price, Among many of the other things. If you agree with the above small list then our advice for you is to stay away from EA games.

Past history shows EA has dropped support on there games faster then any other company out there. Past history also shows the games are released before they are ready to be released which means games full of bugs that customers become beta testers instead of game owners.

TheAlteredState · Post by **TheAlteredState** » 03 Apr 2005, 13:47

EA wants to be like Microsoft and Telkom! Lol!

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 04 Apr 2005, 19:56

I'm glad I didn't get this game. Too many crashes would have just caused me to throw it away.

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 05 Apr 2005, 00:05

Yeah!!

Kotor2 Restoration project.

SPOILER ALERT
http://magestrix.com/K2End/

Post by **ryanrich** » 05 Apr 2005, 07:46

Mine never crashes, haven't found any bugs yet... But the more I play the more I hate it!

Really not getting into this game.

Kher-za · Post by **Kher-za** » 05 Apr 2005, 08:58

Grrr...i really liked Origin, i knew they disappeared from the gaming world but i had no idea EA brought this upon them!!!

i'm a Sierra fan, one of my first cd-rom games was sierra.

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 05 Apr 2005, 19:29

Kher-za wrote:Grrr...i really liked Origin, i knew they disappeared from the gaming world but i had no idea EA brought this upon them!!!

Origin syetems: WE CREAT WORLDS~
EA games: WE destroy them~

DEeRaY · Post by **DEeRaY** » 05 Apr 2005, 23:05

ryanrich wrote:Mine never crashes, haven't found any bugs yet... But the more I play the more I hate it! Really not getting into this game.

yip, Its no good.....

TheAlteredState · Post by **TheAlteredState** » 06 Apr 2005, 00:04

Well mine's never crashed, I've just noticed a few bugs here and there!

AMDfan · Post by **AMDfan** » 06 Apr 2005, 00:12

WAit for the content restoration patch and bug fixes. It will surpass the original in everyway.

TheAlteredState · Post by **TheAlteredState** » 06 Apr 2005, 00:34

When is this patch being released? Do you know?

Hawk21 · Post by **Hawk21** » 06 Apr 2005, 01:23

i dont think anyone knows at this point, its pretty much a watch and wait situation at the moment.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 23 Apr 2005, 17:56

TheAlteredState wrote:When is this patch being released? Do you know?

Here guys :

http://support.lucasarts.com/patches/kotor2.htm

(12.2Mb)

*Now I will play this game*

Mattik · Post by **Mattik** » 12 May 2005, 15:48

Dude. You know better - Synkronos

Nerevar · Post by **Nerevar** » 12 May 2005, 18:06

lol you may not talk about crackes in this forum!