Fukushima Nuclear Crisis

[GreyWolf]

People, please go to the register and read ALL the articles they have there on fukushima.

Some points that might interest you:
-not even the clean up crews have gotten a remotely dangerous dosage of radiation.
-there have been 2 injuries due to radiation... both men now have the equivalent of 1 hour suntan on their feet.
-the ambient radiation has increased by LESS than natural radiation level of a human body.

[Prime]

People, please go to the register and read ALL the articles they have there on fukushima.

Some points that might interest you:
-not even the clean up crews have gotten a remotely dangerous dosage of radiation.
-there have been 2 injuries due to radiation... both men now have the equivalent of 1 hour suntan on their feet.
-the ambient radiation has increased by LESS than natural radiation level of a human body.

Exactly!

ok ok just get back on topic.
I don't think Prime really grasps the severity of this situation.

Really? What situation?
Unlike yahoo and half the press, I don't take it out of context, and I actually do my own reading. More people are going to die in Japan from poor hygiene and exposure that from radiation exposure (According to the register, this stands at 0). You know the first things that go in a big earth quake? Clean Water, Sanitation and Electricity.

It's cheaper to declare a state of emergency and move people in order to cover your own bottom, than risk a law suit in 20 years.

RiaX: It does depend on the dosage. A small amount is fine, and a high dosage might actually be high enough to fight tumours that might develop. The exposure level somewhere in between is the worst though and definitely is dangerous and to be avoided. And if new Iodine-131 is being continually created until the fuel is spent, then it most certainly is a big factor that has to be considered.

That would assume the reactor is spraying it on all the people, it's not. some of it escaped with the steam. It takes an average of 10 days for airborn particles to circle the globe. Whatever didn't stay with the condensate is long gone.

Radioactive Iodine decays after 8 days. Big woop!

wrong... iodine 131 , which is usually the "radioactive iodine" has a half-life of 8 days

half-life is the time taken for a quantity of radioactive isotopes to decrease in quantity by a factor of 2 (in other words half)

so if you have 10g I(131) in 8 days you would have 5g then days later 2.5g

Go read my follow up post.

Radioactive Iodine decays after 8 days. Big woop!

It can settle in the thyroid before that and cause damage there when it decays. I think you mean the half life is 8 days? That means it takes quite a bit longer for it all to decay.

Yeah, the half life. Still, that's short. 64 days later, it's a quarter. Not Hafnium short but short none the less. And it's not like it's concentrated in a little box. in 10 days, any particles in the air have been scattered across the globe. So all you've got are people innitally exposed and deposits in the soil and water which people can still be exposed to.

Sorry but that yahoo article is useless scare mongering.

Siemens, You have granite counter tops?

Radioactive Iodine decays after 8 days. Big woop!

It can settle in the thyroid before that and cause damage there when it decays. I think you mean the half life is 8 days? That means it takes quite a bit longer for it all to decay.

well i dont suppose harm can be done from iodine 131 if they were exposed to it FOR a short period of time, we use it all the time as contrast in radiology, i think its the heavier radioactives they have to worry about

Again, assuming that they are actually exposed to it for a long enough length of time.

Kalster for that you need to know what material they used for fuel and how much...

AFAIk, atleast 2 of the reactors with MUX fuel reactors. They used spent uranium and plutonium.

ok ok just get back on topic.
I don't think Prime really grasps the severity of this situation.

What situation.... if it is something nature will rectify or in this case establish an equilibrium then I don't see an problem. Yes there was a tragedy. Yes some people got nuked. They knew the risks of staying that close to the damn thing. If they build a reactor in Centurion I will be the first person to move out of any possible affected zones. But it was kinda stupid from the world nuclear societies to give any kind of go ahead for a reactor to be built in Japan given their history with natural disasters. We are in a country that is tectonically completely stable. I see no such risks over here.

Back to Japan, all that happens now is the area has to be quarantined... Not much difficulty in that seeing as everyone there already knows that you really don't want to go in there. So one generation further, or rather a conservative 3 years down the line it will be safe to go in. On the other hand if they are hit again and the reactor completely tears open they might have a different picture altogether.

It wasn't the quake that did it, it was the Tsunami.
It was designed to withstand a quake or it would have been far worse.
Things went wrong when a giant wall of water wiped out the pump and generators, and yet the reactors are still standing so...

[Siemens]

Prime, so you really think that evacuating all those town is no big deal? Even if there are 0 deaths there are still 1000s of lives that has been ruined due to this. Your comments seems so inhumane.

Big woop!

[GreyWolf]

Simens, you misunderstand. Prime is not dismissing the loss of life and/or lifestyle, he is merely trying to point out that the power plant posses at worst MINIMAL danger to the surroundings.

[KALSTER]

That would assume the reactor is spraying it on all the people, it's not. some of it escaped with the steam. It takes an average of 10 days for airborn particles to circle the globe. Whatever didn't stay with the condensate is long gone.

Sure, the most obvious advice for a nuclear disaster would be: "Don't go there", but that's not really the problem. As the problem continues, more and more radiation escapes and larger areas has to be evacuated. The radioactive decay is sill producing new pollutants that could find it's way into ground water and such.

Not even the doom prophets think thousands will die or anything. The problem is the environmental impact of radioactive material leaking all over the place. There are tons of contaminated water just sitting there left over from earlier efforts to cool the reactor for instance.

[doo_much]

That would assume the reactor is spraying it on all the people, it's not. some of it escaped with the steam. It takes an average of 10 days for airborn particles to circle the globe. Whatever didn't stay with the condensate is long gone.

Sure, the most obvious advice for a nuclear disaster would be: "Don't go there", but that's not really the problem. As the problem continues, more and more radiation escapes and larger areas has to be evacuated. The radioactive decay is sill producing new pollutants that could find it's way into ground water and such.

Not even the doom prophets think thousands will die or anything. The problem is the environmental impact of radioactive material leaking all over the place. There are tons of contaminated water just sitting there left over from earlier efforts to cool the reactor for instance.

The "environmental impact" will probably be negligible and localised.
Yes, it's bad, but it is not Chernobyl (yet). This will hoewever become ammo in the armory of those greenies that hate nuclear power.

*disclaimer
My brief 2 year stint as RPO does not make me any more qualified to comment than anyone else with leet Google skills.

[Prime]

Prime, so you really think that evacuating all those town is no big deal? Even if there are 0 deaths there are still 1000s of lives that has been ruined due to this. Your comments seems so inhumane.

Big woop!

No, i'm not being inhumane. I'm very sorry the Japanese people are going through hell, and it looks like the mother of all earthquake storms building. But they have far bigger issues than fukashima. The damage from the Tsunami is far greater and will have far more of an impact on their lives in the long term than a minor radiation problem.

That would assume the reactor is spraying it on all the people, it's not. some of it escaped with the steam. It takes an average of 10 days for airborn particles to circle the globe. Whatever didn't stay with the condensate is long gone.

Sure, the most obvious advice for a nuclear disaster would be: "Don't go there", but that's not really the problem. As the problem continues, more and more radiation escapes and larger areas has to be evacuated. The radioactive decay is sill producing new pollutants that could find it's way into ground water and such.

Not even the doom prophets think thousands will die or anything. The problem is the environmental impact of radioactive material leaking all over the place. There are tons of contaminated water just sitting there left over from earlier efforts to cool the reactor for instance.

You clearly haven't met green peace and peta

Just to put nuclear power in context.

[quote=""http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_an ... _accidents]Comparing the historical safety record of civilian nuclear energy with other forms of electrical generation, Ball, Roberts, and Simpson, the IAEA, and the Paul Scherrer Institute found in separate studies that during the period from 1970 to 1992, there were just 39 on-the-job deaths of nuclear power plant workers worldwide, while during the same time period, there were 6,400 on-the-job deaths of coal power plant workers, 1,200 on-the-job deaths of natural gas power plant workers and members of the general public caused by natural gas power plants, and 4,000 deaths of members of the general public caused by hydroelectric power plants.[11][12][13] In particular, coal power plants are estimated to kill 24,000 Americans per year, due to lung disease[14] as well as causing 40,000 heart attacks per year[15] in the United States. According to Scientific American, the average coal power plant emits more than 100 times as much radiation per year than a comparatively sized nuclear power plant in the form of toxic coal waste known as fly ash.[16][/quote]

Yeah, I know, it's from wiki but still

[RiaX]

RiaX: I seriously doubt any nation that can think for themselves will stop their nuclear programs because of this. This was a freak accident.. a once in a 100 year thing at the most. They will learn from it and put more stringent counter measures in place but I doubt it will stop any nuclear development.

it maybe a once in a 100 years type of disaster however the effects last longer

[Prime]

RiaX: I seriously doubt any nation that can think for themselves will stop their nuclear programs because of this. This was a freak accident.. a once in a 100 year thing at the most. They will learn from it and put more stringent counter measures in place but I doubt it will stop any nuclear development.

it maybe a once in a 100 years type of disaster however the effects last longer

Nuclear paranoia lasts about 30 years. it takes about 20 of those years before the truth emerges.

[RiaX]

anyways to hell with the hippies if they oppose nuclear power then they must be useful and help research an alternative instead of crying on tv otherwise stfu

... ok now im trolling mah bad

[RuadRauFlessa]

No RiaX I agree completely.... These tree huggers irritate the hell out of me. If they can't do something constructive then it is not worth doing. They advocate the abolishment of power stations and I don't just mean Nuclear but coal as well. But all of them go back to their cosy houses in the eveing and enjoy a hot bath and a cooked meal or central heating.

[Hman]

Why don't we all just go back to the dark ages. I'll become a wizard and the hippies can become trolls.

[doo_much]

No RiaX I agree completely.... These tree huggers irritate the hell out of me. If they can't do something constructive then it is not worth doing. They advocate the abolishment of power stations and I don't just mean Nuclear but coal as well. But all of them go back to their cosy houses in the eveing and enjoy a hot bath and a cooked meal or central heating.

cough cough...

Please don't group all 'tree-huggers' under the same umbrella. There are actually quite a few of us that believe that the sensible, responsible use of nuclear power is the only logical way to go.

[jee]

No RiaX I agree completely.... These tree huggers irritate the hell out of me. If they can't do something constructive then it is not worth doing. They advocate the abolishment of power stations and I don't just mean Nuclear but coal as well. But all of them go back to their cosy houses in the eveing and enjoy a hot bath and a cooked meal or central heating.

cough cough...

Please don't group all 'tree-huggers' under the same umbrella. There are actually quite a few of us that believe that the sensible, responsible use of nuclear power is the only logical way to go.

+1

[RiaX]

oh ya and what of the waste products that are produced by nuclear power?

[KatrynKat]

Wikipedia...

Solid waste

Radioactive waste

[jee]

sweetie.. wiki is a good source for many subjects - be careful with biographies of current people, DONT believe any politics and be careful of some of the religion sites.... and use your noggin... most of those articles are well written and informative

[RiaX]

no im asking the tree hugers who agree with nuclear power as a viable sorce of energy, what about the nuclear waste?

[doo_much]

Yes Riax, that is a difficult one.
Be clear about it - I'm a proponent of nuclear as opposed to coal power, as I believe that these are still the only two viable generation means for our electricity needs. That does not mean I believe that nuclear is a perfect solution.
The waste? My personal favorite is long term storage for now and investing some serious money into means of reducing the hazard level of those waste. Google nuclear transmutation.
Koeberg's current 'solution' to our lack of long term storage facilities for high-level waste sucks - they keep it on site and just don't call it waste.

[Anakha56]

http://llrc.org/

I will leave this here for everyone to gnash their teeth over...

[Ron2K]

I found this interesting little piece on Slashdot this morning...

An anonymous robot operator at Japan's Fukushima nuclear plant has kept a blog describing in candid detail his day-to-day life at the crippled facility, including robot training exercises and actual radiation-survey and clean-up missions. The blog was recently deleted, but some copies existed around the web and IEEE Spectrum has translated and published portions of it in English. The blog shows that although the operators use remote-controlled robots, they have to work in areas of high radiation, using protective gear and shielded trucks. They also rely on a great deal of improvisation, and there have been a few incidents that put the robot missions at risk.

/EDIT: whoops, forgot that the Fukushima nuclear issue has its own thread. Moved the post accordingly.