Radeon's explained please?
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Radeon's explained please?
Ok, so I'm a Nvidia fanboy with a older 8800GT in one machine, and 2 x 460's in SLI in my current rig.
For another (not gaming application) I might need to purchase two 5770's or 5750's.. I see a fairly small price difference, so can someone give me the quick and nasty on if the 5770 is worth the extra R200 per card? What makes it that much better? (oh and where do they fall vs the Nvidia opponent?).
Many thanks..
The old timer
For another (not gaming application) I might need to purchase two 5770's or 5750's.. I see a fairly small price difference, so can someone give me the quick and nasty on if the 5770 is worth the extra R200 per card? What makes it that much better? (oh and where do they fall vs the Nvidia opponent?).
Many thanks..
The old timer
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Second part of the question:
Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart
Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart
Important Thread:
- Hey everybody, I have returned (2013) and I am not Dead.
- Explaining RAM - SDRAM, DDRx and GDDR
Re: Radeon's explained please?
i have a 5770 and i L-O-V-E it!!
CPU: Intel Core i5 @ 2.66Ghz
MOBO: MSI P55-GD56
GPU: ATI Club3D HD5770 1G
SCREEN: Samsung SA350 24"
MOBO: MSI P55-GD56
GPU: ATI Club3D HD5770 1G
SCREEN: Samsung SA350 24"
Re: Radeon's explained please?
A 5770 is roughly equivalent to a GTX260 core 216 or a GTS450.
A 5750 is roughly equivalent to a GTS250. I'd say the difference is worth R200.
But why not just get a better and newer single card? A single 6950 will outperform two 5770's in CrossFire with ease at around R3300. Even a 6870 will be a better choice.
How much are you paying for your 5770's?
A 5750 is roughly equivalent to a GTS250. I'd say the difference is worth R200.
But why not just get a better and newer single card? A single 6950 will outperform two 5770's in CrossFire with ease at around R3300. Even a 6870 will be a better choice.
How much are you paying for your 5770's?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
-
- Registered Pervert
- Posts: 6879
- Joined: 30 Jul 2004, 02:00
- Processor: Intel i7 4790k
- Motherboard: MSI Z97 Gaming 7
- Graphics card: MSI GTX780Ti Gaming
- Memory: G.Skill Sniper 1866mhz 16GB
- Location: The Greater Unknown
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Here it goes:
5770 is 128bit memory. Your 460GTX is 256bit (I hope you dont have the 192bit versions).
Both cards are dx11.
AMD/Radeon cards are better when processing video and movies.
Nvidia has physx if you really want to enable it.
I don't know the price differences but the 460gtx is better than the 5770.
5770 is 128bit memory. Your 460GTX is 256bit (I hope you dont have the 192bit versions).
Both cards are dx11.
AMD/Radeon cards are better when processing video and movies.
Nvidia has physx if you really want to enable it.
I don't know the price differences but the 460gtx is better than the 5770.
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Ok, maybe a bit more explanation needed. The GTX 460's I have are the decent one's...1gb EVGA EE Superclocked babies. They rock for gaming, but for a MD5 bruteforcing application called 'oclhashcat' they're not that great.
With two (they don't need SLI) you get about 2009m/s (yes thats a lot of math happening on them).
As a reference a 8800GT will give you around 400m/s. I took the MD5 hash of the word "abc123" and it cracked it in 1 second flat! The MD5 hash for "password" took 3 minutes flat to crack.
The application likes ATI cards a bit more
A 5770 overclocked to about 900Mhz will get near 3000m/s (single card). Put two in, and we're talking nice gravy here, and quite a bit cheaper than the 460's. Anyway, it's all just research at the moment. I didn't consider any bigger cards really, though I see 5830's are coming down nicely, or I could just look for two second hand cards to buy.
For some really insane calculations, see here: http://ob-security.info/ <-- 8 (yes EIGHT) 6970's doing 45billion/s..
And http://www.secmaniac.com/february-2011/ ... ng-server/ has 8 (yes EIGHT) GTX580's for CUDA cracking applications.. I'd hate to see their Eskom bills though
With two (they don't need SLI) you get about 2009m/s (yes thats a lot of math happening on them).
As a reference a 8800GT will give you around 400m/s. I took the MD5 hash of the word "abc123" and it cracked it in 1 second flat! The MD5 hash for "password" took 3 minutes flat to crack.
The application likes ATI cards a bit more
A 5770 overclocked to about 900Mhz will get near 3000m/s (single card). Put two in, and we're talking nice gravy here, and quite a bit cheaper than the 460's. Anyway, it's all just research at the moment. I didn't consider any bigger cards really, though I see 5830's are coming down nicely, or I could just look for two second hand cards to buy.
For some really insane calculations, see here: http://ob-security.info/ <-- 8 (yes EIGHT) 6970's doing 45billion/s..
And http://www.secmaniac.com/february-2011/ ... ng-server/ has 8 (yes EIGHT) GTX580's for CUDA cracking applications.. I'd hate to see their Eskom bills though
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
Re: Radeon's explained please?
If this is what you want, grab two 6990s.
Important Thread:
- Hey everybody, I have returned (2013) and I am not Dead.
- Explaining RAM - SDRAM, DDRx and GDDR
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Re: Radeon's explained please?
GDI_Lord wrote:If this is what you want, grab two 6990s.
There's several problems with this idea :
1 - C/card doesn't have that much limit
2 - Family is used to three meals a day
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 10962
- Joined: 03 Oct 2003, 02:00
- Processor: Intel 2500K
- Motherboard: Gigabyte B75M D3H
- Graphics card: inno3d Jericho 570GTX
- Memory: 8Gig DDR3 1333mhz
- Location: I'm so Goth, my wrists slit themselves.
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Well, which is more important, family or 3 meals a day...2 - Family is used to three meals a day
sigh, essentially a trick question...
The, silly question do you really require....so much power...?
"In my weird politically incorrect hypothetically incoherent contradicting obscured world definitively maybe"
Re: Radeon's explained please?
I'd say load your grafix-needing app(s) up onto your existing rig(s) and test performance to get a gauge on how those do - based on that you might not need to get the big cards.
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Re: Radeon's explained please?
The only problem I might have with this (and hence the theorycrafting) is that if my thesis proposal gets approved, and involves decoding a mass of MD5 hashes (including salts), it might take a few days.. I don't want to commit my gaming rig to doing this if I could spend 2k on some cheap Radeon's and they will do it while my main rig happily plays Duke NukemSojourn wrote:I'd say load your grafix-needing app(s) up onto your existing rig(s) and test performance to get a gauge on how those do - based on that you might not need to get the big cards.
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 673
- Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 15:32
- Location: Durban, Pinetown
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
could you please tell me what you do this for? As far as I can tell your using a brute force attack to crack passwords by using your gpu? Is that right? It sounds pretty interesting:) are you studying CEH?
[i7 2600K @ 4.6 ghz 1.35V] [Asus P8P67 Deluxe] [G-Skill RipjawsX 2x2GB DDR3 1600 CL6 (6-8-6-24) 1.5V]
[Sapphire Radeon 6870 @ 975/1200 1.2V] [Coolermaster V6 GT] [WD Caviar Black 640GB SATA3 6Gbps]
[Samsung SA350 23" LED] [NZXT Phantom White] [Corsair TX750W V2] [Zalman RS6F-USB 5.1 Surround Sound Headphones] My rig and benchmarks
[Sapphire Radeon 6870 @ 975/1200 1.2V] [Coolermaster V6 GT] [WD Caviar Black 640GB SATA3 6Gbps]
[Samsung SA350 23" LED] [NZXT Phantom White] [Corsair TX750W V2] [Zalman RS6F-USB 5.1 Surround Sound Headphones] My rig and benchmarks
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Ok, first thing, I'm typing this from memory, I might make mistakes in my explanation!
Now, it's not brute-forcing the password in the traditional way. Bruteforcing means you're running a complicated amount of possibilities against whatever application and hoping you strike gold.
I'm more interested in decrypting encrypted passwords. Linux for example stores the password shadow files in MD5 hashes. Another favourite is websites / content management systems store usernames and passwords in eg. a mysql database. Now, if the coding is silly, you can probably retrieve it via some sql injection. To counter that, they encrypt the password using MD5, and store the MD5 hash in the db..
So now you're bored, you found a way to retrieve the entire username and password db from the site via XSS, but the passwords are MD5 hashed. Take the hash(es), give it to something like oclhashcat and ask it to decrypt it. This is where the GPU's come in. GPU's (depending on the speed and amount) will run through it like a knife through butter! 2 X 460's do 2000m/s, a single 5770 using oclhashcat will do around 3000m/s.. Imagine having 4 x 6990's running!
The other way to do it is rainbow tables. It's basically a precomputed table of hashes. If you have a rough idea of the password (say you are working on a old unix system that still uses 6 chars), you precompute a rainbow table of all possible hashes for 6 chars using the gpu power. Find the hash, and you just match the obtained hash with the hash you have and you have the password.
For a real world example, read the Anonymous hack of HB Gary details using XSS and rainbow tables here: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... y-hack.ars
Of course, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but yes believe it or not, there are other uses for your GPU's than BFBC2, Star Craft 2 and soon Duke Nukem'...Forever!
As for the studying, I'm doing a Msc in Applied Information Security through Rhodes University...
Now, it's not brute-forcing the password in the traditional way. Bruteforcing means you're running a complicated amount of possibilities against whatever application and hoping you strike gold.
I'm more interested in decrypting encrypted passwords. Linux for example stores the password shadow files in MD5 hashes. Another favourite is websites / content management systems store usernames and passwords in eg. a mysql database. Now, if the coding is silly, you can probably retrieve it via some sql injection. To counter that, they encrypt the password using MD5, and store the MD5 hash in the db..
So now you're bored, you found a way to retrieve the entire username and password db from the site via XSS, but the passwords are MD5 hashed. Take the hash(es), give it to something like oclhashcat and ask it to decrypt it. This is where the GPU's come in. GPU's (depending on the speed and amount) will run through it like a knife through butter! 2 X 460's do 2000m/s, a single 5770 using oclhashcat will do around 3000m/s.. Imagine having 4 x 6990's running!
The other way to do it is rainbow tables. It's basically a precomputed table of hashes. If you have a rough idea of the password (say you are working on a old unix system that still uses 6 chars), you precompute a rainbow table of all possible hashes for 6 chars using the gpu power. Find the hash, and you just match the obtained hash with the hash you have and you have the password.
For a real world example, read the Anonymous hack of HB Gary details using XSS and rainbow tables here: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... y-hack.ars
Of course, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but yes believe it or not, there are other uses for your GPU's than BFBC2, Star Craft 2 and soon Duke Nukem'...Forever!
As for the studying, I'm doing a Msc in Applied Information Security through Rhodes University...
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
-
- Registered Pervert
- Posts: 6879
- Joined: 30 Jul 2004, 02:00
- Processor: Intel i7 4790k
- Motherboard: MSI Z97 Gaming 7
- Graphics card: MSI GTX780Ti Gaming
- Memory: G.Skill Sniper 1866mhz 16GB
- Location: The Greater Unknown
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
I believe in russia they banned nvidia geforce cards because of this. I might be wrong but a 8800gt could be used to hack police frequencies. But then again a ps2 processor can be used as a missle guidence system. Its not a game anymore XD
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 673
- Joined: 11 Aug 2010, 15:32
- Location: Durban, Pinetown
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Wow that's hectic! I'm busy with my mcitp now but security and what not intrigues me. But hardware takes the cake, I am fascinated by it and that's why I asked about gpus doing processing work? Never heard of it before now:) thanks
[i7 2600K @ 4.6 ghz 1.35V] [Asus P8P67 Deluxe] [G-Skill RipjawsX 2x2GB DDR3 1600 CL6 (6-8-6-24) 1.5V]
[Sapphire Radeon 6870 @ 975/1200 1.2V] [Coolermaster V6 GT] [WD Caviar Black 640GB SATA3 6Gbps]
[Samsung SA350 23" LED] [NZXT Phantom White] [Corsair TX750W V2] [Zalman RS6F-USB 5.1 Surround Sound Headphones] My rig and benchmarks
[Sapphire Radeon 6870 @ 975/1200 1.2V] [Coolermaster V6 GT] [WD Caviar Black 640GB SATA3 6Gbps]
[Samsung SA350 23" LED] [NZXT Phantom White] [Corsair TX750W V2] [Zalman RS6F-USB 5.1 Surround Sound Headphones] My rig and benchmarks
Re: Radeon's explained please?
You can also use GPUs to crack WiFi passwords. Good old faithful rainbow tables...
Important Thread:
- Hey everybody, I have returned (2013) and I am not Dead.
- Explaining RAM - SDRAM, DDRx and GDDR
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 10962
- Joined: 03 Oct 2003, 02:00
- Processor: Intel 2500K
- Motherboard: Gigabyte B75M D3H
- Graphics card: inno3d Jericho 570GTX
- Memory: 8Gig DDR3 1333mhz
- Location: I'm so Goth, my wrists slit themselves.
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
youtube may be banned, grain ban may be lifted, and call of duty not banned, and a Russian firm hacked wifi with nvidia cards....but so far google is calling your believe BS, there is even an Nvidia office in Russia, they haven't been bombed yet with PS2 guided missiles...and they haven't used PS2 powered suicide robots either....StarBound wrote:I believe in russia they banned nvidia geforce cards because of this. I might be wrong but a 8800gt could be used to hack police frequencies. But then again a ps2 processor can be used as a missle guidence system. Its not a game anymore XD
it is a safe bet that Nvidia cards can still be legally acquired without getting a KGB smuggle ring involved....
"In my weird politically incorrect hypothetically incoherent contradicting obscured world definitively maybe"
- rustypup
- Registered User
- Posts: 8872
- Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
- Location: nullus pixius demonica
- Contact:
Re: Radeon's explained please?
only if they're still living in 1995... seriously.. MD5 has been a known weak spot for twice that length of time, which is why you will more likely encounter whirlpool/tiger/SHA-2 etc... or even some offshoot of MD5 with a modified dictionary...zimmer-frame wrote:they encrypt the password using MD5
finally.. anyone confusing a hash with encryption is in dire need of not teaching anyone anything... ever...... a hash has nothing in common with ciphered content... it's primarily a signature algorithm used to verify integrity... it should never be used in placed of encryption.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
-
- Registered User
- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 15:01
Re: Radeon's explained please?
..and yet, the amount of times you see it used is frightening!rustypup wrote:only if they're still living in 1995...
it's primarily a signature algorithm used to verify integrity... it should never be used in placed of encryption.
The nice thing about oclhashcat is that it can cater for salted hashes etc as well, so even if they salted the hash, it can work with it. It also caters for SHA-1 with salt, so if the developer thought he was being "smart", you can still have a go at it..
But yes, I agree that SHA-2 etc should be used more, but in the real world I've seen places ftp'ing c/card details around instead of using something like 'scp'..there is simply no patch for human stupidity or lazyness
Intel i-7 950 (4Ghz with HT on) / 3 X 2Gb Kingston Hyper-X (1600MHz) / MSI X58A-GD / 2 x EVGA Nvidia 1Gb 460GTX SuperClocked External Exhaust / 320gb Seagate Momentus XT Hybrid HDD + 2 x Seagate 1TB SATA 6Gb/s/ Corsair H70 Hydro Water Cooling / Corsair TX 850W PSU / CoolerMaster HAF-922 / 2 x 22" Fujitsu LCD Wide
Re: Radeon's explained please?
Important Thread:
- Hey everybody, I have returned (2013) and I am not Dead.
- Explaining RAM - SDRAM, DDRx and GDDR