Worth the upgrade?

[Riddick_Jhb]

Hi guys, I'm looking to upgrade my current set up to a new one. I enjoy gaming and would like to go for a mid range gaming rig.

My specs are as follows:
Intel C2D E8400
4G Ocz ddr 2 Platinum memory @ 800 mHz
Asus P5n-d mobo
XFX 5850 Black Edition Gpu

Im interested in the following:
Intel Core i5 760
4G Kingston HyperX 4Gb DDR 3-1600
Asus ASUS P7P55D-E LX LGA 1156
I intend to keep my gpu and other elements like hd's and psu etc.

What do you think about the set up and those of you who are in the know would this upgrade be significantly better than what i already have?

Your help would be much appreciated.

[Stuart]

Nice enough rig. Not sure it will prove "significantly" better for gaming though.

[KALSTER]

What do you think about the set up and those of you who are in the know would this upgrade be significantly better than what i already have?

Nice setup and it will be faster due to the extra CPU cores and because it is i5, but unless you really want a new system, then simply upgrading to a C2Q 9300 (for around R2270) or something would give you loosely comparable performance, if you overclock it a bit (which should be easy to about 3.2GHz or so with mid range air cooling), at high resolutions when games are mostly GPU limited. You will save a bundle of money in the short term.

If you are intent on upgrading I'd suggest going for something with USB 3 and SATA 6. Also, if you can afford it, I'd also suggest going for an i7 CPU to give you an extra edge and a bit higher level of future proofing.

[Riddick_Jhb]

Would it be better to oc a bit and see how it goes?

Because honestly I'm very happy with my rig, it has never given me a moment of hasstle and most of my games i've been playing at max resolution without stutter etc. Would running a second 5850 in crossfire be a better solution if i want an increase in my gaming performance?

[KALSTER]

It would increase things quite a lot (getting another GPU), but I think what will hold you back with quite a few of the new games is that your CPU only has 2 cores. If you wanted to upgrade you GPU as well, maybe consider selling it in favour of a 6870 or similar, which gives you performance similar to that of a GTX470 and close to a 5870.

In short, I wouldn't consider upgrading without doing the CPU as well.

[Stuart]

Would running a second 5850 in crossfire be a better solution if i want an increase in my gaming performance?

I would think so, yes. Although a quad core would complement it nicely too.

Edit: What he said.

[Riddick_Jhb]

Hmm, as you can see i'm somewhat conflicted. A new quad core immediately means wipping out ye olde credit card and signing me into slavery. If i want to go quad i need a new mobo and if I want to crossfire 2 cards i'll probably need a new psu. I currently only have a 650 w

On the other hand again my 5850 is running like a monster on steriods, so by putting in a second card how much of an increase will I experience ? Pcformat did a review on running 2 5850's in crossfire and they claimed up to a 70-80% increase in performance which sounded unreal but Pcformat wouldnt lie. Im somewhat hesitant because im not too clued up on these matters and i dont want to go through all the hastle and costs and end up not noticably experiencing any difference.

[KALSTER]

A Core2Quad would fit in your motherboard AFAIK. If your single GPU gives you 50 fps, and two in crossfire gives you 85 fps, would you be able to see much of a difference?

[Stuart]

Bear in mind that PCF's improvement is probably related to benchmarks, which aren't always a good gauge of real world performance. Truth is, if you're playing games a full resolution and detail on one card, two cards aren't going to make those games look much better. There will probably be some noticeable performance increase in terms of framerates, etc. but I somehow doubt you'll rate it as an 80% performance boost to the naked eye.

I'm not sure why you'd need a new motherboard for a quad core. Upgrade to a Q9xxx and you can use it on your current motherboard.

What PSU do you have? Is it a generic, or something decent?

[Riddick_Jhb]

Stuart, it's a Coolermaster PSU.

Kalster, would it be worth going C2Q when the Core i range is out? Wouldn't that be upgrading sideways in some respect?

[Prime]

Stay away from the q9300. It's not a good CPU. Performance is fine, it's the temperatures or faulty sensors that aren't.

Your board should support quad. Selling your Current CPU would cover some of the costs. Those were popular with the OverClockers

[KALSTER]

Kalster, would it be worth going C2Q when the Core i range is out? Wouldn't that be upgrading sideways in some respect?

Yes the i range is faster, but most of the time you won't know the difference between an i5 760 and a Q9200 or Q9300. You might with an i7 though when you are running a lot of apps at once.

I am suggesting a Core2Quad, because then you would only need to spend money on the CPU for performance acceptably close to that of an i5 760. If you upgrade to i5, then you'll need a motherboard and RAM as well.

Stay away from the q9300. It's not a good CPU. Performance is fine, it's the temperatures or faulty sensors that aren't.

I haven't heard about this before, but then the Q8400 is R1500.

[Prime]

there is a whole thread about my troubles with it somewhere.

[KALSTER]

there is a whole thread about my troubles with it somewhere.

Ok, but are a lot of Q9300s specifically defective? It is just binned differently from the Q8200 and Q8400, isn't it?

[Riddick_Jhb]

So going crossfire and maybe overclocking my current cpu might be a better endouver than splashing out alot of cash on a new rig? Because to be honest i don't feel my pc is "outdated" and most of the gaming power lies with the gpu in any case as i know in my limited knowledge.

I can see on the horizon you two having a long debate on the quad core vs core i argument. Bottom line is i don't want to waste a perfectly good pc if the one im replacing it will only be modestly better. When i upgraded from my Amd rig to the Intel one i could honestly say without a shadow of doubt that it was a massive increase in performance.

[Prime]

there is a whole thread about my troubles with it somewhere.

Ok, but are a lot of Q9300s specifically defective? It is just binned differently from the Q8200 and Q8400, isn't it?

from what I could find online, it wasn't widespread but it was a known problem. the 9400 was also known to have issues. I tried 2 different boards, 2 different cases and 2 different CPU coolers including my thermalrite. the Core temps were always excessively high but the temperature reading on my motherboard software was always low. it went into thermal shutdown at least once.

I should have bought another CPU, would have cost less.

[Riddick_Jhb]

So what's the bottom line for me? I'm willing but not too interested in upgrading and splashing out alot of money. My initial thoughts before contemplating new cpus, boards etc (reason for thinking that was because i saw a "special" at a pc store which turned out not to be that special) was to get another 5850 Black Edition and run the one i have with it in crossfire. That was my initial bee in the bonnet. So I don't know anymore.

[KALSTER]

Like me and Stuart said, if you are getting good frame rates in your games already, then going crossfire will not give you much of a performance boost to the naked eye. You will mostly only see a difference in benchmarks. On the other hand, some games show quite a lot of improvement when more than just two cores are present, no matter how fast those two cores are clocked to, so the most pertinent upgrade at the moment would be to upgrade your CPU IMO. It is what I would do. The limitations of your current CPU is not speed related, but that it is only a dual core.

As for between the i5 and C2Q, it is just a matter of what you can get for the least amount of money and getting a C2Q would give you loosely similar performance to an i5 at high resolutions and settings where fps is limited by GPU more than the CPU. So you can basically choose between two systems that perform almost similarly, where one costs as much as only a C2Q and the other costs as much as an i5, motherboard and RAM.

[Riddick_Jhb]

Your answer makes a lot of sense and thanx for your patience. As I stated earlier im not too familiar with all these technologies and the do's and don't regarding them. So in idiot speak, what would the quad core offer to what i have at the moment and which one would you recommend?

[KALSTER]

Your answer makes a lot of sense and thanx for your patience.

No problem at all.


A quad core would allow you to do more at the same time as it is physically twice the CPU you have now. That means you could run twice the number of applications you can run now without your system slowing down. While you would not notice a difference in fps in most games, some games do show quite a large improvement when you have more than 2 cores (Battlefield: Bad Company 2 being a good example) and more and more games will be written to take advantage of more than two cores as time goes on. So while you won't notice much of a difference in most games, as time goes on you will be happy you switched.

So, if you want to upgrade something now and let your computer be good enough for the next year or so at least IMO, then I'd suggest getting a Q8300 or Q8400, popping it into your current motherboard and maybe clocking it to 3.0GHz or 3.2GHz. If you are still mostly happy with your system, then I'd suggest waiting first and saving a bit more money so you can go the i7 route and have it last for quite a bit longer. Once your frames eventually start to drop in newer games, then your next upgrade could be another 5850 or a newer gen GPU.

Maybe a good idea would be to try and get a second hand CPU from the For Sale section of this Forum or a place like Carbonite and save a few bucks. As long as you buy from a reputable buyer it will perform just like a new one.