F1 2005!!!

[Anakha56]

is every1 else as amazed as i in the fact that this has been the dryest f1 season in a long time? poor old "rain Master" hasent been seeing to much of the wet stuff.

I wonder if Michi has improved there wet compund or if Bridgestone are still the king of wet?

[jPm]

All u guyz make valid points,but at turkey montoya played a read gunner for kimi,montoya was way faster than kimi throughout the wkend and he proved it setting consecutive fastiest laps ,which INDEED WERE FAST LAPS...his championships hopes are dead and burried so he has to help kimi,IN Canada i saw team orders ther,and wateva everybody says,in ure mind u know ther was team orders ther...other than that u all say kimi is gr8,and alonso is not as fast,but the fact remains is that alonso is 20 sumtin points ahead of kimi...and looks like he is gonna win the championship,and even though i support montoya,i wud prefer alonso winning coz then it wud make kimi and montoya try to race harder,if kimi wins this year then montoya rather change teams,bcoz they gonna treat jpm the same as ferrari treat baric,and the same as mclaren treated Coulthard...so i hope kimi doesnt win,for sure MONZA and spa are gonna be awsome races,but i wud luv to see michael back in the picture,bcoz racing with kimi and alonso is kinda boring,for sum reason everybody i know prefer wachn JPM and MSHUMI battle,bcoz they make it exciting...we all know that mclaren wont let jpm try to battle with kimi,which is a shame,monza is gnna be gr8,i think thats an all JPM track...if u look at the fastest driver in dat track u wud see him almost everywher,and spa is gnna be a gud contest btwn him and kimi...ONE more thing is that montoya qualifyd 4th from last with the same fuel as kimi!!!
Looking to the future....Toyota are gonna be a force to be rekoned with,with mR gascognes special aero specs and toyotas powerful engine...another team wot look forward to is BMW F1 works...who i think are gonna do extremely well if they have a good chassis,bcoz that engine is extremely quick and nex yr is gnna have v8's...and JaCK Vill. is gnna be drivin there so its gnna be good fun...buts lets wait and c

HOPE monza and spa are good fun!!

cia0

[Anakha56]

err dude no1 unsaid rule please try to spell better. no2 us grammer and paragraphs. cause that was kinda hard to read.

Alonso being ahead cause he is faster than Kimi errr no you are wrong. The only reason why Alonso is ahead is because his car is more reliable if Kmi didnt have the problems he had then he would be alot more closer to Alonso if not leading.

As for the race thats happened tell me why did Kimi have to push his car when he already had a 30 second gap over every1 else? Montoya was pushing to secure 2nd place which he lost due to A: Being shunted in the rear B: Flat spotted tyre and C: because he was pushing to hard through turn 8 (and that was what he said in the driver interviews).

Kimi will race hard despite the fact if he wins this year why? because if he didnt then he shouldnt be racing. And if Kimi does get treated better well you know what that would cause dont you? it would cause Montoya to push himself even further why? because he is now inspired to beat his team mate.

You say every1 you know would prefer to watch montoya and schumi? well every1 i know would prefer to see Kimi and Alonso and that is also the feelings of the race commentators. What i would like to see is a four way between Kimi, Montoya, Alonso and Schumi but.... Schumi and Ferrari are dead this year count them out. So you are left with a threeway which would also be extremely good.

Kimi also makes race's exciting. And so far this year Kimi holds more fastest laps over Montoya. Kimi has had Montoya's number ever since the season started, its only now that Montoya is coming back.

And one last thing about Montoya he tends to lose concertration whenever he gets under pressure there have been times when he has been brilliant but he throws it all away as soon as he is under pressure it is a fact look at the majority of his races and you will see. He is just to hot headed.

[SquattingDog]

JpM, I think your keyboard is broken or something... I know you might find it cool to let us reaf 30min on something thats suppose to take us 5min/sec.

Anyway, yes I agree with you that watching JP and MS race is fun because the chances are good that either JP or both of them will not be racing in 10min. JP will eaither make the move stick or die trying, WHICH I like bytheway, no guts no glory, this how ever does have it's risks.

You can say wahtever you want about Kimi or my mother for that fact, but Kimi is a better allround package as they would call in F1 terms.

Regarding 2006, Sauber (BMW) and BMW (Cosworth), are teams to be looked at next year. For those off you who don't know, Cosworth has the most expierence in the V8 format, so it would be interesting to see if they can filter this down 2 another level or should I say a higher level.

Sauber (BMW), need I say more about the amounts of power in the BMW V8 but once again can they do it on a higher level, and for once in their life get the aero's right on the car THE FIRST TIME.

So, shut the hell up about JP being the State President of F1 and enjoy it. It's much more fun now than it was when Michael was dominating, all said with respect though.

[VoodooProphetII]

Okay.... JPM.......yup you the member here at PCF... I really love to read all your posts....really the stuff you come up with is really something special. Not you facts, but how you put it into writing. I just come to see what you wrote again..... And please do not take offence by this, I mean it in a funny, but nice way.

As for the Kimi and Monty story.... It's sad because I feel that both of them had there fair share of bad luck, which was mostly due to McLaren mechanics forgetting some silly things okay and sometimes Kimi just driving the crap out of a car......which is why I think his brilliant. What I like is that Kimi matured a lot during this season, mostly due to bad luck, but it changed him for the better I think. Kimi learned to never show his hand till qualifying. Yup he is quick in qualifying, but not as quick as he could go.

Monty is also a bloody good driver, and I can understand JPM saying that he would like to see Monty going wheel to wheel with MS and the reason is obvious. Monty can't stand MS, and will try everything to pass him on the track. I reckon that's why Monty had no real motivation this season, seen that it will not be much of a battle for him to pass the current Ferrari.....except for the aero changes this season hampering the passing game.......

[jPm]

Well everybody knows my opinion...btw this is not my english class which i have finishd sumtime ago,so il type how i want to,u must just decide if u want to read it or not!!! another thing is that in the start of the season montoya was ahead of kimi and then he missed two races!!when he came back he indeed had bad luck, and he was not fit enuf...other than dat it was all good racing,if u look at the prac times in monaco,he was the fastest...was penalised though,canada,well u know wat happnd ther,hmm,hungry well u also know wat happend ther,france was another disaster(engine),hockenheim he did excellent from last to 2nd,silverstone 1st,nurburgring knocked out on first corner after having fastest prac times,hmmm,turkey i wud say was the fastest driver of the wkend(and in his press confer he sed that he raced until the 2nd pitstop and thats y kimi was so far ahead unless i heard wrong), yeah montoya doesnt have any motivation, wen he came into f1 it was michael schumacher to beat,and he was the only driver that done dat,kimi only started to do dat in 2003,and the truth is kimi just was consistent and year thats wat counts i guess,i 2004 mclaren were ***** until the end of the season and thats where kimi bloomed,but u must realise Williams was ***** the whole of 2004 and montoya didnt do dat badly,but thats the past

Its weird because this is a forum and i can express my opinions!!but sumhow all u guyz just try to block them,if u want to do this then y not just keep ure opinions to ureself!!this is the INTERNET ppl not ure DIARY!!!so dont attack me when i view my opinion!!!!!

[Road_Kill]

I have never really been a Kimi Raikkonen fan. To be honest I don't really like him, but I have always been fair and admitted that he really is a good driver. One of the few that possess something special that only a few drivers have, that ability to take those vital few spilt seconds off a lap. Only MS, Monty and maybe Alonso at the moment can claim they too posses this ability. Anyway as a Ferrari fan since my day of birth I follow the Ferrari drivers no matter what, but now it seems I will soon have to become a Kimi fan. Why, because it seems that when MS retires in 2007, Kimi will be taking his place at Ferrari. As much as I have always wanted to believe that it wouldn't happen, I suppose it was inevitable. Ferrari has the one thing that Kimi really needs, reliability. Even though Mclaren could be faster than Ferrari, their relaibility has always been their biggest problem, and the way that Kimi pushes the car to max all the time, he really needs that. So will the combination of Kimi Raikkonen and Ferrari start a new domination in the world of Formula 1 in 2007? Will Kimi even go to Ferrari for sure? I don't know, but whatever happens, it should make for interesting viewing.

I didn't provide a link because I read it in the Newspaper and on BBC.

One last thing, are all those Kimi fans still gonna be his fans or now that he moves to Ferrari will they find someone else?

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[DEeRaY]

find someone else, Basically anyone who joins mclaren, I support the above the driver

But as far as i know thats all just speculation, Apparently they want Alonso too

I dont think Kimmi will leave mclaren quite yet

My2c

[Road_Kill]

Not yet, but thats two years away. So you don't really konw. The reason I mentioned Kimi is cause they already sat down together and were discussing it. It seems pretty sure, but I would prefer Alonso.

[Iceblade]

Looking to the future....Toyota are gonna be a force to be rekoned with

Nice jPm,
I also think so,
but they still a baby in this scene,
as they grow and the riders get better,
they will rule

[SquattingDog]

Don't know if you guys have been following the proposed track to be used for SA's F1 GP. Here is a link to the whole thing, you can also download a 2MB track thingy. 8O

Start saving because these tickets won't be cheap.

Image


Whole thing

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News ... 66,00.html

ENJOY!!!

[jPm]

the lastest news from testing at monza was Montoya fastest,apparently setting a new lap record,faster than his previous one set in prequalifying last year!!!

Monza and Spa are gonna be the best races of the YEAR,no doubt about it,they the most exciting and the fastest tracks

I takes alot of skill to drive around the Franchorchamps circuit, and if u a good driver then you will see great overtaking

and at monza if you good and have straight line speed then you should do well, although you do need a gr8 aero spec for going around the lesmo curves

Lets hope for gr8 clean racing and NO RAIN

[RVFmal]

Lets hope for gr8 clean racing and NO RAIN

Erm, I thought you wanted to see a race where MS was fighting on track with JPM, Kimi and Alonso.

If it rains then that is exactly what you will get. I would love to see a wet race as some of the most exciting racing is produced when the weather plays up.

Seperates the men from the boys.

As for the track in CT...WHY????? Crikey we already have enough white Elephants of racing tracks in this country! They will use it once for an F1 race and maybe twice for local races. The rest of the year it will gather dust.

If they are really serious about bringing F1 to SA and making the millions to be spent on the track viable, they should either renovate and upgrade one of the Gauteng tracks or Phakisa (already a white elephant since MotoGP pulled out).

[qwiksilva666]

Kylami needs a facelift i say

[jPm]

Yeah i would love to see Mshumi fight back,but not on a wet track, we all know the issues about a wet track...michelin are useless and bridgestone are great.

So that wouldnt be fair at all, thats not they type of come back that i wanna see!!!

Maybe next year with all the new rules etc we will see some good racing and a ferrari, williams comeback

Maybe a wet race would be good for the sport, but not at monza, at monza i like to see topspeeds and fastest laps

Maybe Spa will be wet, now that will seperate the MEN from the boyz especially going up that hill at full speed, i can remember last years race at SPA, it was by far the best race of 2004

[RVFmal]

Kyalami is in desperate need of an upgrade and it apparently is on the cards.

Much like the Bridgestones are cr@p in the dry and the Michelins are not? Where is the fairness in that? And who is to say that the Miche's will be bad? We have yet to see this years wet weather spec tyre from either supplier in action during a race.

Any wet race brings out the best in some racers and absolutely annihilates the others.

A ressurgence from Ferrari is a pipe dream at present though it would be nice to see them win some races before the season end on merit (either wet or dry).

[SquattingDog]

To be fair on jpm comment on Mich and Brid tyres the Michelins were appaling in wet conditions...LAST YEAR, with that I agree 100%

I know Michelin did a great amount of wet weather testing (artificially wet tracks). It would indeed be interesting 2 see if they made any ground to Bridgestone on this department, but yes we can speculate unless we see them in action.

Appartly Bernie (Yes I know he needs a haircut, so do I) did not wnat to have the race in Jhb or Welkom. Thats why they decided to have it CT, it would be a great spinoff for the tourism industry in CT, that was also 1 of the reasons, what tourism can you promote in Welkom or Jhb.

Welkom, come and see how cold it can get in the winter, and watch the dust storms in the summer.

Jhb, you think your car is fast, watch this taxi go. Keep your cars locked at all times, including F1 cars.

[RVFmal]

To be fair on jpm comment on Mich and Brid tyres the Michelins were appaling in wet conditions...LAST YEAR, with that I agree 100%

I know Michelin did a great amount of wet weather testing (artificially wet tracks). It would indeed be interesting 2 see if they made any ground to Bridgestone on this department, but yes we can speculate unless we see them in action.

Appartly Bernie (Yes I know he needs a haircut, so do I) did not wnat to have the race in Jhb or Welkom. Thats why they decided to have it CT, it would be a great spinoff for the tourism industry in CT, that was also 1 of the reasons, what tourism can you promote in Welkom or Jhb.

Welkom, come and see how cold it can get in the winter, and watch the dust storms in the summer.

Jhb, you think your car is fast, watch this taxi go. Keep your cars locked at all times, including F1 cars.

It still does not justify the statement that it would not be "fair" on the Michelin runners if it rained.

I somehow doubt that Michelin will be as far off the pace this time round to be honest as they have done extensive WWT testing since their embarresing drubbing in the wet last year.

As if CT needs anymore spin-offs for tourism. However Bernie may feel, it still does not change the fact that HUGE sums of money is going to be spent on a track that is essentially going to be used to it's full potential for one race weekend. Don't tell me that they will find uses to carry the cost for the rest of the year as that will never be the case. Just look at ALL the tracks dotted around SA.

Regardless of one's feelings as to the placement of Phakisa ( I voiced my concern when they built this as well and my concerns have been justified) it is a VERY under utilised world class track as is Kyalami. Whilst I do not think that giving Kyalami would be a good idea given the fact that it is already a nightmare to access during the week with NO races, it must be said that Zwartkops is a very good venue IF enough money and development was thrown at it. It would also cost a LOT less than a brand new track in CT.

Whichever way it goes, I will be there.

[Kronos]

Well everybody knows my opinion...btw this is not my english class which i have finishd sumtime ago,so il type how i want to,u must just decide if u want to read it or not!!!

You didn't do very well in english did you?
But, fine, If you keep writing like this, I'll assume that no one wants to read it (as the general consensus seems to be), and just delete the post. Howz that.

Just in case you were worrying. That was just a joke

another thing is that in the start of the season montoya was ahead of kimi and then he missed two races!!when he came back he indeed had bad luck, and he was not fit enuf

As I've pointed out. It was because of his own stupidity.
Also, remember that Kimi only finished 1 of the 2 races while JPM was injured. When JPM was back, Kimi won the race (Spain)

...other than dat it was all good racing,if u look at the prac times in monaco,he was the fastest...was penalised though

He was the fastest on Thursday's first practice session (with 1:17.152), and again with Saturday's first (1:16.197).
Fastest on thursday was Alonso (1:15.835) and Saturday, Fisichella with (1:13.988).
Kimi Qualified Fastest with 1:13.644, while JPMs qualifying time was 1:14.858. Over a second slower!!! So I don't know where you got your facts from?

,canada,well u know wat happnd ther

Yes, we do. JPM was black flagged for being stupid (running the Red Pit Light) or blind, if you believe what he said about it.
You seem to be under the impression that there was team orders, but even if there was (which is a stupid thing to think since there was only 11 pionts difference between the two, and it was still early in the season), it doesn't change the fact that JPM messed it up for himself.

,hmm,hungry well u also know wat happend ther

Driveshaft Failure for JPM.

,france was another disaster(engine)

Hydraulics actually.

,hockenheim he did excellent from last to 2nd

You also seem to conveniently forget that Kimi had a hydraulic failure here, yet he still had the fastest lap, and qualified in pole.
Yes, JPM had a good race. Last on the grid (After another stupid mistake, spinning off). But let's applaud him for that.

,silverstone 1st,

Clap clap...

nurburgring knocked out on first corner after having fastest prac times,hmmm,

This time, JPM didn't even get the fastest practice time in ANY of the practise sessions! The closest he came was 1 tenth of a second behind Kimi on Saturday's second practise.

Do you actually watch the races and practise sessions, or do you hear about it from your friend's friend's father's uncle's second cousin's retarted kid's bulldog?

JPM and Webber made contact on the first corner of the race, Webber was out of the race, but JPM carried on. He still finished the race almost a minute behind Alonso, and he couldn't overtake Michael Schumacher in a head to head.
Kimi on the other hand made a few mistakes, but he was still kicking everyone's arses before his front right tire gave in, and he was out of the race.

turkey i wud say was the fastest driver of the wkend

How do you define the fastest driver of the weekend? He had the fastest practise time in 1 of the practices, but not in qualifying. But again, the fastest lap in the race.

(and in his press confer he sed that he raced until the 2nd pitstop and thats y kimi was so far ahead unless i heard wrong),

No, the bulldog must've gone for a leak then, because he raced untill the end, because Alonso was right on top of him.
Alonso overtook him only when JPM ran wide in turn 8, possibly due to his diffuser being damaged.

yeah montoya doesnt have any motivation,

Oh really, and you claim this on what grounds?

wen he came into f1 it was michael schumacher to beat,and he was the only driver that done dat,

Please elaborate on this Greatness of JPM? All I can find...
In 2001, he overtook MS in Brazil, but then a bit later crashed into a backmarker. (Truly remarkable driving isn't it )
He won in Monza.
In 2002 he did well, but Ferrari still won 15 of the 17 races. JPM had 0.
In 2003 he finished the season 3rd, behind Kimi.
2004 was unlucky for him since it was his last year at Williams and they didn't really care.

kimi only started to do dat in 2003

In 2002 Kimi had a crap load of Engine failures. but still finished 5th with 24 points.
In 2003 he took the Championships to the last race with MS.
In 2004 again, he had the worst luck and reliability from his car.

,and the truth is kimi just was consistent and year thats wat counts i guess,

I have no idea what you tried to say there...

i 2004 mclaren were **** until the end of the season and thats where kimi bloomed,but u must realise Williams was **** the whole of 2004 and montoya didnt do dat badly,but thats the past

Yes, and the fact that Williams was useless meant that JPM finished 5th and the "Better" Mclaren driven by Kimi 7th...

Its weird because this is a forum and i can express my opinions!!

The fact that this is a forum has nothing to do with it. You have the constitutional right to express your opinion.

but sumhow all u guyz just try to block them,

We're doing nothing of the sort. No one has tried to BLOCK your opinions, we're simply correcting your mistakes.

if u want to do this then y not just keep ure opinions to ureself!!

So, if we want to block your opinions, we must rather keep ours to ourselves? is this what you're saying?

this is the INTERNET ppl not ure DIARY!!!so dont attack me when i view my opinion!!!!!

When you view your opinion? This makes even less sense...
...mmm, this is my opinion, let's have a look at it...?

What you must understand is that there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion. And we expect nothing less.
But you're trying to back this up with incorrect "facts".

If you want to tell us that you think JPM is the best thing since sliced bread, then say so, but don't go about trying to prove it by making up stories and facts that don't exist.

All I'm doing is giving counter proofs for your statements. This is known as debating, and it's what you're gonna get if you do what you did in this thread.

[jPm]

well i have been watching f1 since 1993 infact 1992!! im sure that isnt a long time ,but i have seen almost everything that goes on in f1

its is sumhow amazing how the mclaren technicians didnt seem to notify montoya about his pitstop nor the red light

i Have watched every single practice session except the First practice session for every day for the last 4years

In turkey Alonso was no where ontop of montoya he was 12 seconds behind, then montoya got knocked by a jordan , please GET YOUR FACTS right before you state your facts!! and if you dont think im correct then go and watch the race again, or maybe you can give me your address and il post u the grandprix

You say montoya only overtook MS once, infact i have let me check, about 18 video clips of montoya overtaking michael,do u want me to post that also, coz i would gladly do so just to see your reply on this forum

Well you got a point english isnt my strong point, but sumhow i achieved an ''A'' symbol in matric,NB: this is not school, if someone from another country replies on it are you gonna be so hard on them!!

maybe you should visit www.f1onboard.com, chat on those forums, get some video's and then talk about overtaking, il gladly host for you the video of montoya overtaking Kimi in hockenheim a few years back

I must you saying montoya is a stupid driver with the mistakes he makes!!I havent even said anything bad about KIMI, and lemme tell you there is quite alot, but il let you ponder on that fact

I doubt michelin made any progress regarding their wet tyres, they say every year that they have caught up,but never seem to


Neway i would love to see this weekends racing,its gonna be good

[Kronos]

well i have been watching f1 since 1993 infact 1992!! im sure that isnt a long time ,but i have seen almost everything that goes on in f1

I bow to your superior knowledge!
I've only been watching since 1991.

its is sumhow amazing how the mclaren technicians didnt seem to notify montoya about his pitstop nor the red light

What, is he blind? Do they actually have to tell him about the red light? Can't he see it for himself?
Mclaren Technician: "Oh yes Juan, if you see a red light at the end of the pit lane, Stop you stupid numbskull!"

i Have watched every single practice session except the First practice session for every day for the last 4years

And still from your post you stated that JPM was the fastest in practise in those 2 races, where he was not even close overall.
Explain that to me!

In turkey Alonso was no where ontop of montoya he was 12 seconds behind, then montoya got knocked by a jordan , please GET YOUR FACTS right before you state your facts!! and if you dont think im correct then go and watch the race again, or maybe you can give me your address and il post u the grandprix

OK. On lap 46 JPM was 12.7 seconds ahead of Alonso, like you just said...


... Oh but wait! What's this?
On lap 54 BEFORE JPM was hit Alonso was just 8.0 seconds behind. mmmm. Maybe Alonso was catching him?
Or why did he slow down? before Kimi's 2nd stop JPM was chasing him and put on a fastest lap. Why did he slow down?

I HAVE got my facts straight.

You say montoya only overtook MS once, infact i have let me check, about 18 video clips of montoya overtaking michael,do u want me to post that also, coz i would gladly do so just to see your reply on this forum

Read that post again dude. I NEVER said he only overtook him once. I gave a reference to 1 race: The first time that JPM overtook MS.
Please read what I post properly before you make assumtions as to what I was saying.

Well you got a point english isnt my strong point, but sumhow i achieved an ''A'' symbol in matric,NB: this is not school, if someone from another country replies on it are you gonna be so hard on them!!

Good. And I can see from this post that you're using much better grammer, spelling and punctuation. It's just 100 times easier to read.
Was it that difficult to write it this way? I'm sure it's just as easy.
Again, I was joking about the english part actually!
The way you were writing was clearly not because you don't know how to spell and punctuate, but rather a "Try to be cool" way to write.

If someone from, let's say, Poland posts here, and he/she has broken english, then they can write to the best of their ability. I don't have a problem with that.

But you don't have broken english. You have good english skills, and to prove it, you got an A in school.

If someone from England or USA posts here, and uses the same grammer, spelling and (Lack of) punctuation that you did, I would tell them exactly the same.

maybe you should visit www.f1onboard.com, chat on those forums, get some video's and then talk about overtaking, il gladly host for you the video of montoya overtaking Kimi in hockenheim a few years back

And I wasn't really going on about overtaking.
You said that JPM was the ONLY one to beat MS when he (JPM) came into F1. But, If we look at the 2001 season, MS won 9 of 17 races, DC won 2, Mika Hakkinen 2, Ralph 3, and JPM 1.
So, your claim of JPM being the ONLY one to beat MS is COMPLETELY ungrounded.

I must you saying montoya is a stupid driver with the mistakes he makes!!I havent even said anything bad about KIMI, and lemme tell you there is quite alot, but il let you ponder on that fact

I wish there was a HUGE Rolling eye smiley for this.
Do you now feel personally attacked because I disprove everything you believe about JPM? Because I don't like him, and point out the stupid mistakes he makes?

So you want to diss kimi? Go ahead. I don't mind. I will ponder on that. I'll even go and look it up myself.
But while I do that, you ponder on this:
How many times has kimi been black flagged, or penalised because of dangerous driving?

I doubt michelin made any progress regarding their wet tyres, they say every year that they have caught up,but never seem to

Neway i would love to see this weekends racing,its gonna be good

At least we agree on something.

Dude, please stop this now. You are a JPM fanboy, and make up facts to suit what you believe. You manage to see things that are not there and never really happened.
Just the fact that you have so many video clips of JPM passing MS is more than enough to show your bias towards JPM.

Thanks for the site link. I'll look it through.
But one note though, if that is where you get all your information from then I'm not surprised at what you're writing here.

You can't take everything from a FORUM and believe what people say about something as fact. Unless ofcourse they are experts in the field in question.
Are any of the members on that forum F1 Mechanics or Technicians? Maybe former drivers? I doubt it, but I wont claim it as a fact just yet. I haven't read much on that forum.

Go here for Up to date, Acurate info. It's the Official F1 website. A little more trustworthy than fans opinions wouldn't you think?

[DEeRaY]

hectic

[RVFmal]

Aah, it is so refreshing to see a debate about a tpic other than why Shumi is/isn't the best driver and how many titles he and Ferrari have won due to their cheating or not cheating.

jPm, we all appreciate the fact that you support JPM, but you really have to admit that some of the facts that you posted are indeed untrue and unfounded. Please do not take this as an attack on you personally.

The same has happened in the Schumi/Ferrari debates of the past. Many supporters and detractors have made up facts to support their cause and have all been found to be lacking. No-one is perfect and when supporters actually admit to their drivers/teams faults it adds a lot more credibility to their support. Especially when they use founded facts to prove their point.

Nice debate though.

A couple more sites that may be of interest Here and Here

[Fishzn]

jPm wrote:
,silverstone 1st,

Dude i have most of the races on tape, i like to watch them, just so i can get parts if i happen to miss them. Anyway at silverstone Kimi was sublime, first look at testing times there, i clearly remember that he was 2 seconds faster than anyone, monty included. At silverstone, Kimi started 12th after a blotched friday engine. Still he managed to claw his way back to 3rd, gaining at least 30s on the 45s deficit created while he was behind Shumi & trulli. Now put him at the 2nd place he qualified, that gives him the win with a 15s lead. Given the fact that he was stuck behind MS for 23 laps, that lead would have been much bigger. Plus fastest lap on the last lap. Care to comment on sliverstone now?

other than dat it was all good racing,if u look at the prac times in monaco,he was the fastest...was penalised though

Penalty aside, go look at fastest lap times, you'd see that Kimi did a 1.15.9, while the best monty could rake up was a 1.17.4. If you can remember Micheal did the fastest lap of this race, so yeah kimi was up there, since we know that Micheal is supreme at Monaco.

(and in his press confer he sed that he raced until the 2nd pitstop and thats y kimi was so far ahead unless i heard wrong),

Well you heard correct in a way. quoting the real jpm,
"JPM: Well, I managed to catch up quite a bit on Kimi in the second stint but it was seven seconds and the car was pretty much racing to the second pit stop. I got to that and it was still too far and I just bailed out completely."

Lets look at that race ok, saying that monty was fastest driver of the weekend. Go do some reading, Kimi started that race with a lap more fuel than Montoya, he managed by the end of lap one to get back to first place and keep himself up with the Renaults pace, mind you they were ten laps down on fuel, he was obliterating Monty in the sister Mclaren, who claims that his tyres were graining!! Fair enough he did the fastest lap, but Kimi was clearly nursing his car, seeing that he was lapping early 1.26's to late 1.25's, though his car did a 1.25.0 earlier. He knew he had it in the bag, incl 1 lap more fuel than Monty. Wrt your 2nd pitstop comment, ITV said that Monty flatspotted his tyre, thats why he ended 20's behind Kimi after second pitstop, thats why he stopped racing him. Flatspots come from trying to hard eh? Kimi had the measure of him and drove accordingly, seeing that he's been learning the key to proper engine management in the last few races!

well i have been watching f1 since 1993 infact 1992!! im sure that isnt a long time ,but i have seen almost everything that goes on in f1

Dude, how long you've been watching the sport doesn't mean you can make claims as to who the fastest driver in f1 is. Based on cold hard stats, i.e. lap times and race pace, Montoya is not as fast as Kimi this year bottomline.

another thing is that in the start of the season montoya was ahead of kimi and then he missed two races!!when he came back he indeed had bad luck, and he was not fit enuf

Bad luck, if you take bad luck as you call it into account, then Kimi would've won a championship already(2003,nurburgring,brazil(fisi got the win)), two if you take this year into account! This year i don't want to start, Kimi was faster at Australia, and Kimi was awesome at Malaysia, his fastest lap was 1.1s faster than Jpm, so what season beginning are you talking about? Not fit enough?? Then why come back? n.b. you've been watching from 1992 eh? You of all people should know that F1 demands extreme levels of fitess, surely Monty must've passed the teams fitness test before being allowed back into the car!

Well thats enough nitpicking. But seriously jpm, its clear that you are a jpm fan and your statements are subjective. I'm not taking anything away from Juan pablo as a driver, in fact i like the guy bar his extreme whining and horrible decision-making, but he's not anywhere near Raikkonen when it comes to being superbly fast and efficient. Interestingly enough Monty is being showing up Kimi at Monza so far, still i think that the Iceman has a bit more to give, come prac 4 and qualy and i think he'll be where he needs and so badly wants to be. Rock on F1, lets hope we have an exciting Monza!

EDIT: Interesting thing i've just read:
Stoddart confirms Irvine interest in Minardi
'We are taking our time to have a look' - Irvine

also the most interesting thing about this is,
"Irvine confirmed that the money for a takeover was coming from a Russian vodka magnate named Roustam Tariko, who is a close friend of Formula One ringmaster Bernie Ecclestone"

Hmmm, looks like Roman has sparked nation-wide interest in sport team takeovers!

Anyone thinking that Minardi will be buying Kimi and Alonso by 2008, then winning world championships by 2009

[Fishzn]

Crap another engine blow, the guy was seriously cranking Monza:
http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlin ... 0825.shtml

Oh well, that means another 10 grid penalty to overcome, if he doesn't make it to at least fifth by lap 2, we can safely assume Raikkonens championship chances are gone!!

Anyway the boy still owned in qualifying:

1. 9 RAIKKONEN McLaren Mercedes M 1'20"878 257.855 Km/h
2. 10 MONTOYA McLaren Mercedes M 1'21"054 + 0'00"176
3. 5 ALONSO Renault M 1'21"319 + 0'00"441
4. 3 BUTTON BAR Honda M 1'21"369 + 0'00"491
5. 4 SATO BAR Honda M 1'21"477 + 0'00"599
6. 16 TRULLI Toyota M 1'21"640 + 0'00"762
7. 1 M.SCHUMACHER Ferrari B 1'21"721 + 0'00"843
8. 2 BARRICHELLO Ferrari B 1'21"962 + 0'01"084
9. 6 FISICHELLA Renault M 1'22"068 + 0'01"190
10. 17 R.SCHUMACHER Toyota M 1'22"266 + 0'01"388
11. 14 COULTHARD RedBull Cosworth M 1'22"304 + 0'01"426
12. 11 VILLENEUVE Sauber Petronas M 1'22"356 + 0'01"478
13. 15 KLIEN RedBull Cosworth M 1'22"532 + 0'01"654
14. 7 WEBBER Williams BMW M 1'22"560 + 0'01"682
15. 12 MASSA Sauber Petronas M 1'23"060 + 0'02"182
16. 8 PIZZONIA Williams BMW M 1'23"291 + 0'02"413
17. 18 MONTEIRO Jordan Toyota B 1'24"666 + 0'03"788
18. 20 DOORNBOS Minardi Cosworth B 1'24"904 + 0'04"026
19. 19 KARTHIKEYAN Jordan Toyota B 1'25"859 + 0'04"981
20. 21 ALBERS Minardi Cosworth B 1'26"964 + 0'06"086

Looks like Montoya might have the race in hand, seeing that his been much closer to Kimi than he was ever. He's quite good at Monza. Well another what-if for Kimi amidst strong Ferrari deflection rumors, Mclaren better start thinking seriously of ways to try and keep him there!