Remapping and other performance tweaks

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GreyWolf
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Post by GreyWolf »

SykomantiS wrote:Also, another thing. the fact that a bike motor only has to move "300 - 400" kg :lol: (that's ~200, wet, nowadays) is irrelevant. the weight of the bike has nothing to do with the state of tune of the motor.
I was counting rider as well ;). Aplogies for over-estimating, I see a 2009-2011 gixer is 200kg wet.

But that just goes to prove my point.

The weight issue has to do with how hard a car motor has to work. Car engines need to move over a tonne reliably, which you will agree puts a lot more stress on the parts. So, to counter this, you de-tune the engine.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

The new K9 - L1 Gixxer is a pansy :P
It's heavier and weaker than the K5 - K6 :mrgreen:

I get what you say about the detuning. That is where the torque does it's its thing. I consider torque to be a much more important specs than power (HP or kW) simply because torque is a function of the motor, while power is a mathematical rating derived from torque at a given rpm- it's also why I'm more impressed when a motor makes big torque numbers (and why V8's rule) :lol:
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by GreyWolf »

SykomantiS wrote:..(and why V8's rule) :lol:..
yes... yes they do ;)
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by JollyJamma »

Certainly I met a guy in the UK with a Honda Civic Type R Sedan and he said you can throw tons of money at it and see little improvement but the Subarus and Chev V8s can get 100 more BHP from little work. I was next to a Lumia that was Super charged at a red light and it just flew away upon green.

Still love a good turbo charged car and the wooshy sounds it makes. Floored my moms Volvo without ESP on and nearly crashed it. Lesson learnt.

Definitely you can gain much more power from a good engine with some mods but some modding companies take the micky and reduce your power then charge you.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by IcePick88 »

I understand the whole idea of modding and tuning your car to gain as much performace from the engine as possible, but why?
I know "Cuz I can" is a very valid answer, but why spend so much money on something when you are only legally allowed to drive/ride 120km/h max in this country?

If you are not entering your car for a sanctioned race event or something, all these performance mods (to me) is a total waste of money and perhaps only a "Mine is bigger/faster than yours" thing. :? Which is a bit too danville for me. :twisted:

Straight from the factory, my little 650 can do 230km/h flat out. Not much, but that is a good 110km/h over the maximum allowed speed limit and, when caught, will land me in jail. So puttering at 180 on the highway is already looking for trouble. :lol:

I do have a aftermarket exhaust on my bike, but I did not put it on for the performance aspect, but for the sound. A bike is not a bike with a std exhaust on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I thought about a Power Commander or TFI unit, but spending in excess of 5K for something that will improve my performace by a little is firstly not worth it and secondly a waste of money that could have been better applied somewhere else.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by GreyWolf »

JollyJamma wrote:Certainly I met a guy in the UK with a Honda Civic Type R Sedan and he said you can throw tons of money at it and see little improvement but the Subarus and Chev V8s can get 100 more BHP from little work.
I will corroborate this. Unless you go forced induction, you will get very little extra performance from a Honda engine.

@Icepick:
Couple of things:
1. Its not about the destination, its about the journey. In other words, its not about the top speed, its about how fast you get to 120.
2. Tuning your car, improves efficiency, so in a way its eco-friendliness :)
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by IcePick88 »

GreyWolf wrote: @Icepick:
Couple of things:
1. Its not about the destination, its about the journey. In other words, its not about the top speed, its about how fast you get to 120.
2. Tuning your car, improves efficiency, so in a way its eco-friendliness :)
:D But I will disagree with you.

I'm finding it hard to process your first point :lol: . 1/4 mile or robot to robot can hardly be called a journey.... :lol: 0-120km/h times for my bike is 3.8 seconds and when it's past that, then anything over 120km/h is moot imho.

And cars tuned to be eco-friendly or to be less thirsty cannot be a performance car. If your car/bike is tuned for top performace (be it torque or top end) then it will not be eco-friendly.

I've had so many "playas" in their little suped up citi golfs or polo's wanting to dice me at a robot. What possible point is it that they want to prove by beating me? Do they want to impress their chicks? Do they wanna impress their mates?

I normally don't indulge in things like this, but if there is a passenger in the car, I just know he wants to show off. His face at the next robot is always one of utter sadness. :lol: :lol:

But I guess each to his own. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by ryanrich »

Why is your PC overclocked to 3.8GHz IcePick? :lol:

Because you can, and it drives the chip to it's limits giving you the performance of a higher model...

It is used on track days. When driven the same as before my consumption is actually better with the new map. It's not about top speed, it's how you get to 120km/h, and my rolling acceleration has been greatly improved and the cars driveability is much more to my liking. Also, because car modding and tuning is my interest and I like getting the maximum amount of performance out of it, for fun and because I can. :lol:
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by IcePick88 »

ryanrich wrote:Why is your PC overclocked to 3.8GHz IcePick? :lol:

Because you can, and it drives the chip to it's limits giving you the performance of a higher model...

It is used on track days. When driven the same as before my consumption is actually better with the new map. It's not about top speed, it's how you get to 120km/h, and my rolling acceleration has been greatly improved and the cars driveability is much more to my liking. Also, because car modding and tuning is my interest and I like getting the maximum amount of performance out of it, for fun and because I can. :lol:
Ja ja. It's because I wanted to see if I could do it. And it did not cost me a penny. :P

Liek I said, each to his own. I'm just trying to understand the whole thing. :D
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

I'll put it to you this way. I went for some practical tests today hopefully leading up to interviews and a new job. I took the car (1.4 Jazz)
I cannot explain the frustration of something so comparatively slow :x

To quote a good friend of mine: "I've got one speed: GO!"

So you can guess my reason for performance mods.
The irony: My bike is still stock standard, with the exception of a washable air filter. All else are simply cosmetic changes.


Edit: stupid typo
Last edited by SykomantiS on 08 Jun 2011, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by GreyWolf »

IcePick88 wrote:And cars tuned to be eco-friendly or to be less thirsty cannot be a performance car. If your car/bike is tuned for top performace (be it torque or top end) then it will not be eco-friendly.
Counter disagreement in 3..2..

If I am trying to wring the most power out of my car, without resorting to things like re-boring / turbos / performance parts, then an increase in performance will increase fuel efficiency. Thats basically what tuning means.

For example: I used to drive a Beetle, and as you would imagine, the engine would periodically loose tuning and the car would become slower than a paraplegic swimming in molasses. It meant that faced with a hill, I would have to go down a gear and floor it in order not to come to a complete stop and anger the people behind me.

I would then re-set the points and distributor, and hey presto I could climb hills with ease at low rpm.

Now tell me, in which scenario was my fuel efficiency at its peak?
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by Sojourn »

I find it amusing how this fraternity will do anything for that 0.00001 % extra torque and/or power.
It boggles the mind.

/wanders off in another direction.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by DarkStar »

In the regards to fuel-efficiency and performance of an engine, here's my two cents in the matter.

I think it's a common misconception that the bigger an engine the more fuel it uses. Yes, it's true to a degree, but Top Gear actually did a test on this and found when driving these expensive performance cars lightly they used the same, if not less fuel than so called 'eco cars'.

My one mate has a Z1000, and in 6th gear that thing is doing 120km/h at 2300RPM.

The thing is, the bigger the engine, the less work it actually has to do to maintain the same speeds (if that makes sense). I know a guy with a Zongshen 125 and he gets between 20-30 km per liter. In comparison, the guy with the z1000 gets 23km/l.


So just because your vehicle is 'performance' turned, doesn't mean it's fuel-inefficient.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by ryanrich »

Finally got around to putting my car on a dyno at the ACSA event on Saturday.

Made 129.5kW and 414nm converted to flywheel power, which was about 110kW at the wheels. Stock is 103kW and 320nm at the flywheel.

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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by WiK1d »

Lekker! Guess that little car takes off like a rocket! :D
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by ryanrich »

Yeah man, pretty happy with it, and still get 800 km on a tank. :lol:
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

Epic thread revival!! :P

I think I'm sold- I want a diesel car.
Reason - 130km a day to and from work- easily done on the bike- 40 - 50 min one way in Joburg/Pta traffic. What breaks my heart is clocking that amount of kilo's on the GSXR- not the service intervals or any such things. These bikes are rock solid and can take it. Also, sooner or later I will have to buy a car- there's no getting around it. I'm looking to buy around December or early next year or so.

Question- will it be worthwhile buying a diesel instead of a petrol? I'm hoping to get my hands on an Audi 2.0TDI or BMW 320/120- I will have to buy 2nd, errr, I mean pre-owned though :P Is it worth buying these cars 2nd hand? Any pitfalls?

So, pro's and cons, of diesel VS petrol.

And, Go! :D




Also, out of curiosity, Ryan, what year model/range is that A3 of yours?
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by garp »

Double post
Last edited by garp on 10 Aug 2011, 07:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by garp »

Double post
Last edited by garp on 10 Aug 2011, 07:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by garp »

SykomantiS wrote:Epic thread revival!! :P

I think I'm sold- I want a diesel car.
Reason - 130km a day to and from work- easily done on the bike- 40 - 50 min one way in Joburg/Pta traffic. What breaks my heart is clocking that amount of kilo's on the GSXR- not the service intervals or any such things. These bikes are rock solid and can take it. Also, sooner or later I will have to buy a car- there's no getting around it. I'm looking to buy around December or early next year or so.

Question- will it be worthwhile buying a diesel instead of a petrol? I'm hoping to get my hands on an Audi 2.0TDI or BMW 320/120- I will have to buy 2nd, errr, I mean pre-owned though :P Is it worth buying these cars 2nd hand? Any pitfalls?

So, pro's and cons, of diesel VS petrol.

And, Go! :D
Also, out of curiosity, Ryan, what year model/range is that A3 of yours?
I've driven a 120d diesel before and that thing pulls like a train. if memory serves me right it was also pretty quiet and refined. But personally i wouldn't get a pre owned diesel cause you have no idea how its being driven and and service history.... plus theres also the possibility of turbo failure.

Edit: Double post for some reason
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SykomantiS
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

True, but I can't afford a new car (even if it's a petrol car)- my only option is 2nd-hand. I am a bit scared about that whole turbo thing though.


Also, no comment from Ryan? :( I have a few other questions as well, after eyeing those graphs again- I'm curious about that 1st one he posted from his buddy.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by GreyWolf »

Friend of mine recently got himself a second hand 120i.

It is strong and VERY VERY well equipped.

However, we have a mate who owns a golf 4 TDI and he gets way better fuel efficiency. If you are after something frugal maybe go for something smaller than a 1/3 series, maybe look at a polo TDI?
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

I did- the problem with something smaller ie the polo, is just that- it's smaller. Physically I mean. Comparing it to a golf (4 or 5) or an Audi, there's almost zero boot space- unless they're hiding it really well that is. I haven't had a close look yet, but I get the feeling the 120 won't be much better off.
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by ryanrich »

SykomantiS wrote:Epic thread revival!! :P

I think I'm sold- I want a diesel car.
Reason - 130km a day to and from work- easily done on the bike- 40 - 50 min one way in Joburg/Pta traffic. What breaks my heart is clocking that amount of kilo's on the GSXR- not the service intervals or any such things. These bikes are rock solid and can take it. Also, sooner or later I will have to buy a car- there's no getting around it. I'm looking to buy around December or early next year or so.

Question- will it be worthwhile buying a diesel instead of a petrol? I'm hoping to get my hands on an Audi 2.0TDI or BMW 320/120- I will have to buy 2nd, errr, I mean pre-owned though :P Is it worth buying these cars 2nd hand? Any pitfalls?

So, pro's and cons, of diesel VS petrol.

And, Go! :D




Also, out of curiosity, Ryan, what year model/range is that A3 of yours?
Sorry man, I've been away the past week, my dad was in a motorbike accident and was in ICU so I flew up to PTA.

I'm on my 2nd TDI and will struggle to go back to petrol again, I just love it. Awesome power when you need it and still get great fuel economy. The only thing I miss about my petrol turbo cars is that they had more revs which makes them a little more fun to drive, although making 400nm of torque from 2000RPM across the whole range sorta makes up for it. :P

My previous car was a 2003 Audi A4 1.9 TDI (6 speed) that I bought in 2006 on 70,000km and owned for 4 and a half years. Never had a single issue with that car until the day I sold it on 185,000km, still had original clutch and turbo, only normal services ever. That car used to go around 1300KM to a tank on the open road. I remember driving to Durban from Pretoria and I still had over half a tank left when I got there, average consumption going down was 4.7L per 100KM. :lol:

Current car is a 2007 A3 2.0 TDI Sportback, fantastic engine and car. Power is great, especially with mods (snigger), and I still get around 800km from 50L's or so, and that's not driving slow. On the open road it should get over 900km.

Buying a pre-owned TDI, or any turbo car for that matter, is fine as long as it has some motorplan left. I buy mine making sure it has at least 2 years and 30,000km left. This is one of the reasons I would go for BMW or Audi as they have full motorplan for 100,000km or 5 years, and if you buy a pre-owned Audi direct from an Audi garage it comes with 40,000km's or 2 years motorplan regardless of it's current mileage. This gives you plenty of time to sort out any issues the car might have.

Let me know if you need any other specific info... :)
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Re: Remapping and other performance tweaks

Post by SykomantiS »

Ah- thanks dude you just answered a boat load of my questions already, I'll pick your brain again when something comes up. :)

I'm really sorry to hear about your dad :(
I really hope he's doing ok. All the best to you.

Edit: actually, on second thought, about those services, can you give a guesstimate on what they cost you, and how often you have to get the car serviced?
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