The Consumer Protection Act

[doo_much]

OK, my turn.

From another thread:

I just wish they'd stop sending me those bloody MMS's. I'm starting to hate red.

Does a MMS cost the recipient anything (data wise I mean) ?

Not if you don't open it. Isn't there something in the Consumer Protection Act about unsolicited advertising?

You're thinking about the ECA. The CPA however does make provision for a national 'opt-out' register - which the DMASA has been running(with mixed success) for a number of years. I personally hope and believe that this one will be given the rubber stamp and become the 'legal' one.

Other than that?
The CPA is not complete as it is. A number of regulations that are critical to its success are still outstanding.
Parts of it will be written in court in the sense that the provisions are vague. Can you really imagine Vodascum giving you a phone with a new contract and then allowing you to cancel the contract after 6 months? Interpretations will differ and it'll be up to the courts to clarify some of it.

So what does it mean for me as a provider of services and equipment? Very little at the moment.
We went through the motion of (at great expense - I hate lawyers) amending our contracts to ensure that they are in plain language, fixed some standard documents to include our physical address and the names of our members blah blah blah.
Our standard warranty is a year anyway - so the 6 month thing isn't a problem.

Well regardless i still think this is a great thing...

How many times haven't you or someone you know walked into HiFi Corp to buy a dvd player, microwave, etc.

Only to find that it breaks 2 weeks later and you try to take it back and they give you s*** and tell you no they can only send it away for repairs.

I for one will be using HiFi corp more so that i can get them back for all the times.

I still have a set of rechargeable batteries and charger that stopped working 3 weeks after date of purchase.

they charge whole night and last 5 mins the next day.

SO please nobody tell me that the poor retailers will loose business.

they will get more and if their stuff is of quality will keep my money. but if they give me k** then i will come back to claim.

+1

But this act only applies to anything bought after 1 April 2011.

The Act stipulates a compulsory 6 month warranty period. It doesn't state that it has to be a 'money-back' warranty. So I can't see Hi-Fi Corp changing their idiotic business practice any time soon?
As for rechargable batteries? Prove to me you followed the correct charge/discharge cycle!

[rustypup]

the manufacturer remains untouched and it is the retailer that carries the loss.

err.. no. it's the manufacturer and the customer, never the retailer. the retailer either ships it back as "damaged" or receives a monthly/quarterly/annual stipend from the manufacturer in lieux of damages, (which saves on transporting non-recoverable product around the country).

try and argue that there is no reasonable manner in which you would have delivered urine-covered product and they respond during negotiations the same way they always do "we'll de-list you!"

retailers in SA always win...

[RiaX]

shaw what will this do to software pirating :/ , i mean i can claim im not happy return it after making a copy

[Stuart]

of course i've had bad service/product delivery.... the trick is retaining a sense of proportionate response.. i have personally witnessed, on multiple separate occasions, consumers tearing open product on shelf, (don't ask), and removing stock.

that product becomes "damaged" and is return the the manufacturer as such. the manufacturer cannot possibly absorb the replacement/recovery costs this issue presents so ups their price to the retailer who naturally reciprocates and passes that on to the consumer. so the consumer still pays. it may be indirect and there may be a fair deal of rubber-banding but the consumer pays.

now imagine what the natural outcome will be when we expose the retailer and the supplier to the sort of abuse that this act endorses? if you think it's expensive now, give it a year....

frankly, the entire act carries the stench of retarded socialism dressed in drag.... the responsibility for service delivery rests solely with the consumer. if you can't figure out how to shop elsewhere or how to complain, you're probably only half-aware anyway...

I'm with you, rusty, and I agree it's very much a one-sided act which will have less than positive results.

Still, I can see the point of it. Typically, in South Africa, we can all earn our degrees in rusty's school of complaining and it still has jack squat effect when you employ your new skills. Good service is for the most part a pipe dream in South Africa. I can totally see the basic point behind this act.

The big problem is that it is too one sided, which as you say will ultimately just end up costing the consumer more in the long run.

[Siemens]

Of course there will be pressure on the manufacturers. Without a doubt. The retailers cannot simply increase their prices to cover their own back sides. There is a whole supply/demand demographic that kinda forces the prices. If one retailer increase their prices then people will go to the other and if they all decide to increase their prices as such it could be seen as price fixing. Thus when consumers returns bad product the retailer will have to demand better quality from the manufacturers.

[Bladerunner]

It's an excellent way of telling retailers to shove their attitudes and serve customers with quality goods and services.

disagree. customers dictate what quality they're willing to settle for via their wallets. supply and demand, (also sam vimes' theory of economic injustice). the assumption that we will all magically be provided the bestest of best quality at flea market prices is hilarious.

the bulk of the act is built around the fact that consumers refuse to accept responsibility for their inability to function as cognitive units.

I'd rather pay more for a TV and get a good quality one with a good warranty than a supposed bargain which only lasts a year. (And I'm only offered a repair, or worse, the warranty has expired.)

Fact of the matter is, places like HiFi Corp reckon can they sell a load of horse manure to people; and this has got to stop.

[wizardofid]

Sigh, this thread should be renamed to worst case scenario........

Unfortunately pretty much half the damn country is far too busy, looting, raping and killing to be bother about the CPA...half the invading Taiwanese folk here with shops barely comprehends vowels or full sentences.....so they are the first targets and then onto the Indian folks, perhaps a Pakistani in between the wheeling and dealing....

Fact of the matter is South Africans don't usually know what their consumer rights are in any case....nor could they be bothered as such....of course till a product goes south, then the uneducated dimwit, jumps and screams like a headless chicken, with maximum effort and minimum progress.....mostly looks like nine inch nails version of Romeo and Juliet.

So all the current hype and conspiracies all of you are having, assuming half of the damn country actually comprehends the act and can actually put it into practice...would still not cause a weapon of mass inflation on products...nor will either retailer or factory enforce the act unless you actually point it out and question them....knowingly it's illegal but worth a try.....

.........and no of course you can cancel your cell phone contract, and of course the service provider is going to charge you for both the phone and the allowed cancellation penalty, any one dimwitted enough to believe otherwise is in for a rude awakening when they check their contacts fine print......


In general the consumer hasn't been doing much screwing, that has been left up to the retailer to push you over the counter and pull down the proverbial pants...unless of course that is your thing....then I will be obligated the strike proverbial and let you get it on....not that you will be winning....with any major retail chain...any way.

For the CPA to be actually be effective requires that both the consumer and the retailer is aware of the existence of such act and actually understands it....

[StarBound]

Clearly I am in the wrong retail then.

As far as I'm concerned this act isnt to protect consumers anymore. Consumers had the right to insist on working products and getting what they paid for. Not getting a product or service, abusing it or "renting" it at 0 cost and returning it for a full refund. I cant put it in any plainer words than this.

[wizardofid]

Clearly I am in the wrong retail then.

As far as I'm concerned this act isnt to protect consumers anymore. Consumers had the right to insist on working products and getting what they paid for. Not getting a product or service, abusing it or "renting" it at 0 cost and returning it for a full refund. I cant put it in any plainer words than this.

No your are still in the right retail, it is about business good practices, charging every customer for some that has been broken, damage as result of customer negligence, is sure to drive away consumers.

Is it worth making a scene when R200 + worth of products has been soiled because I ignorant person failed to read the notices when entering the premises...

All these little disclaimers that retailers have in their windows as a requirement, seldom has and notice that the consumer may be held liable for any damages that occurs as a direct result be it accidental or negligent....

.....you can claim damages from clients, the question is it worth the occasional occurrence to go out guns blazing and pull the grannies knickers over her head and pound her on the head with a frozen snoek in the storeroom til she pays up.....

How to do you go about enforcing it when a client refuses to pay.....you can't keep the client on the premises til he/she does...that would be illegal.

So what do you do ? Keep your mouth shut and be more vigilant....and I can only guess that half the staff at this retail store you are at....since I don't know where you are working nor how many staff you have there....couldn't give a damn any ways....

[DeathStrike]

The Act stipulates a compulsory 6 month warranty period. It doesn't state that it has to be a 'money-back' warranty. So I can't see Hi-Fi Corp changing their idiotic business practice any time soon?
As for rechargable batteries? Prove to me you followed the correct charge/discharge cycle!

Well i am just saying that what i heard on the radio was that the customer has the right to choose between the three Rs (Refund, Return and Repair).

As for my Batteries i will have you know that i know how to charge and discharge them correctly.
1) i have a set of other rechargeables that i had bought from a chinese shop and they are still working.
2) I read the instructions on the packaging on how long to charge for the first time etc...


In other news... No more 3 year contracts...

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/cellular/ ... s-you.html

[doo_much]

In other news... No more 3 year contracts...

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/cellular/ ... s-you.html

I think let's wait for the regulations to, finally, be gazetted - and the network operators' new offerings - before we get excited.
I've been due for an upgrade since 1 Feb and won't make a move until that happens.

[rustypup]

I'd rather pay more for a TV and get a good quality one with a good warranty

so what you're saying is you're dictating the quality of product you're willing to settle for... which is precisely my point....

Fact of the matter is, places like HiFi Corp reckon can they sell a load of horse manure to people; and this has got to stop.

i'm sorry, but where do you imagine the average HiFi corp customer will go when the only products available are the more expensive one's you're happy with?... seriously, now....

i'm thinking black market... aka, whatever "fell" out of someone's house yesterday....

you buy cheap, you get cheap. when has this ever proved to be anything other than what it is?... take a stroll down to the harbour sometime and have a gander at the volume of cheap chinese/taiwanese products flooding into the country... then ask yourself who's buying it all... and who are we to dictate what quality/price they're willing to settle for?

Spoiler: (show)

At the time of Men at Arms, Samuel Vimes earnt thirty-eight dollars a month as a Captain of the Watch, plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots, the sort that would last years and years, cost fifty dollars. This was beyond his pocket and the most he, Vimes, could hope for was an affordable pair of boots costing ten dollars, which might with luck last a year or so before he, Vimes, would need to resort to makeshift cardboard insoles so as to prolong the moment of shelling out another ten dollars.

Therefore over a period of ten years, he, Vimes, might have paid out a hundred dollars on boots, twice as much as the man who could afford fifty dollars up front ten years before. And he would still have wet feet.

[wizardofid]

take a stroll down to the harbour sometime and have a gander at the volume of cheap chinese/taiwanese products flooding into the country

So what would the difference be between a Sony PS 3 , a LG PS 3 or Mecer PS 3 perhaps Defy can throw a spanner into the spin cycle....I am sure you get the hint....rusty...

[rustypup]

So what would the difference be between a Sony PS 3 , a LG PS 3 or Mecer PS 3

you buy cheap, you get cheap.

seriously... when did it become the government's responsibility to think for us?

"I trusted him, yeronner! He was a random stranger who accosted me with an armload of genuine TAG Heuer watches for R30! What a bargain! I bought 20!"

[Prime]

take a stroll down to the harbour sometime and have a gander at the volume of cheap chinese/taiwanese products flooding into the country

So what would the difference be between a Sony PS 3 , a LG PS 3 or Mecer PS 3 perhaps Defy can throw a spanner into the spin cycle....I am sure you get the hint....rusty...

The fact that the merc will still be going and be serviceable in 30 years. Unlike the cheap Chinese thing that falls apart when you drive over a pothole.

[Siemens]

Remember a retailer is still a customer towards the manufacturer so retailers have just as much right as the consumers

[wizardofid]

So what would the difference be between a Sony PS 3 , a LG PS 3 or Mecer PS 3

you buy cheap, you get cheap.

seriously... when did it become the government's responsibility to think for us?

"I trusted him, yeronner! He was a random stranger who accosted me with an armload of genuine TAG Heuer watches for R30! What a bargain! I bought 20!"

Some how I expected a fake cocaine baking soda snorting comment like that.... I am not referring to actual fakes...I am referring to over hyped, make it shiny-so-consumer-will-buy-into-our-child-labor-brands.

Most people here won't touch P n' P house brand electronics Enzer with a 10 foot pole, one can only speculate the return rates...would P n' P continue selling an inferior product... with high return rates?

Essentially buying LG over Enzer because LG is more expensive with better product branding, packaging, and customer services....sigh !

Re-brand Enzer...then what.... we will have a new LG on our hands....Does any one still remember who LG was before the big change....?

The fact that the merc will still be going and be serviceable in 30 years. Unlike the cheap Chinese thing that falls apart when you drive over a pothole.

Wait....What ? says who ? because here in the freestate potholes doesn't care for what make you drive.....

i would like to feed you to the crocodiles in the potholes here for that ignorant statement....it's not the car, it's the driver.....

[DeathStrike]

Remember a retailer is still a customer towards the manufacturer so retailers have just as much right as the consumers

OOh that puts a spin on things..

i never thought of it like that...

SO if i were to return something to my local store...

that store could then take it back to manufacturer also..

Should make things interesting.

[rustypup]

ould P n' P continue selling an inferior product... with high return rates?

and therein lies the problem... the market isn't going to simply change overnight if PnP decides to cull the product line... the customers buying these products will be looking for alternatives... not at PnP... so what have we achieved?

again, the consumer, (and the marketing scum infecting the consumer's mind), dictates what shape the market takes, not the retailer nor the manufacturer..

which leads me to believe that the thinking behind this act is a delightful blend of childish naivety and socialist agenda...

the communist revolutionaries were so wedded to their ideals they believed they could dictate every facet of the market, right down to how farmers should be managing their fields... because a bunch of hippy activists know all there is to know about farming and farmers were mostly uneducated slobs who couldn't possibly think for themselves...right? and look how that ended... starvation and collapse...

[Siemens]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

[wizardofid]

again, the consumer, (and the marketing scum infecting the consumer's mind), dictates what shape the market takes, not the retailer nor the manufacturer..

.....and thus my gripe.....and KFC bucket filled with ripened tomato's....for the ignorant sods and the marketing scum.....

[Stuart]

again, the consumer, (and the marketing scum infecting the consumer's mind), dictates what shape the market takes, not the retailer nor the manufacturer..

.....and thus my gripe.....and KFC bucket filled with ripened tomato's....for the ignorant sods and the marketing scum.....

If you buy KFC and find the bucket filled with ripened tomatoes you should definitely consider implementing the CPA and complain.

[wizardofid]

again, the consumer, (and the marketing scum infecting the consumer's mind), dictates what shape the market takes, not the retailer nor the manufacturer..

.....and thus my gripe.....and KFC bucket filled with ripened tomato's....for the ignorant sods and the marketing scum.....

If you buy KFC and find the bucket filled with ripened tomatoes you should definitely consider implementing the CPA and complain.

Actually it will be a used bucket with my own tomato's.....I will fling the chicken pieces at peta...the tomato's and at the aforementioned and the bucket at green peace.....and thus the CPA will crawl out of it's hole and flash it's shinny badge....

The chicken pieces didn't cause enough damage, the tomato's stains doesn't come out with surf....and the bucket isn't strong enough.......I WANT A REFUND !!!!

[Prime]

So what would the difference be between a Sony PS 3 , a LG PS 3 or Mecer PS 3

you buy cheap, you get cheap.

seriously... when did it become the government's responsibility to think for us?

"I trusted him, yeronner! He was a random stranger who accosted me with an armload of genuine TAG Heuer watches for R30! What a bargain! I bought 20!"

Some how I expected a fake cocaine baking soda snorting comment like that.... I am not referring to actual fakes...I am referring to over hyped, make it shiny-so-consumer-will-buy-into-our-child-labor-brands.

Most people here won't touch P n' P house brand electronics Enzer with a 10 foot pole, one can only speculate the return rates...would P n' P continue selling an inferior product... with high return rates?

Essentially buying LG over Enzer because LG is more expensive with better product branding, packaging, and customer services....sigh !

Re-brand Enzer...then what.... we will have a new LG on our hands....Does any one still remember who LG was before the big change....?

The fact that the merc will still be going and be serviceable in 30 years. Unlike the cheap Chinese thing that falls apart when you drive over a pothole.

Wait....What ? says who ? because here in the freestate potholes doesn't care for what make you drive.....

i would like to feed you to the crocodiles in the potholes here for that ignorant statement....it's not the car, it's the driver.....

No, it's not solely the driver. We've driven the freestate, rustenberg and eastern cape roads. my parents have been going there for 30+years. The corrugations on those roads aren't "avoidable" nor are some of the potholes, and our mercs haven't fallen apart. And you can still get parts for our 20+ year old and 30+year old mercs that have traversed those roads, because of the way the parts system works.

My 30+ toyota - No (genuine) parts for the brake master cylinder, no parts for the startermotor and several other things. And I've heard similar complaints on the recent chinese and indian imports.

So you actually do get what you pay for. Now go swim with those free state crocodiles.

[wizardofid]

Now go swim with those free state crocodiles.

I will be happy to do so, first need to lure out the fuzz...hiding in them....

But hang on .....from merc's been indestructible, to in case I do end up in a pothole I can still get parts for a 30 year old vehicle that costs more to maintain and drinks petrol like a bum who scored a box of whiskey that fell from a truck.....and adding oh Toyota is inferior because I can't get parts for it....

......like I said potholes aren't judgmental be it a volvo or merc, Toyota or BMW well past it's sell by date......and thus I fling tomato's......