When Do You Do "The Talk"?

[rustypup]

And the problem is?

well.. morally speaking, you're surprise-sexing your bed... and that is just..... well... wrong....

[Stuart]

D3 but still how can it be a grey area? What is so "wrong" about it?

Well, I don't know for sure if it is a bad thing, and most people aren't. That's why it's grey It can lead to things that are quite obviously wrong, like porn. Maybe it could keep people from seeking out real relationships. Maybe it could turn them into hedonists. I don't know.

Lets leave the discussion on the rightness or wrongness of that out of this.

Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter (in this context) whether you think it's right or wrong. Even if you believe masturbation to be morally wrong, that's not going to stop your kids hearing about it from other sources, and doesn't necessarily mean that you should not teach them about it. After all, I would assume that you consider murder to be wrong, and I would think that you wouldn't treat the word "murder" as taboo in your family one day. We teach our kids both what is right and what is wrong, so the morality doesn't play into it in that sense.

It's really just a question of how much detail you go into. The professional on the show in question suggested that parents keep diagrams of both male and female reproductive systems in the house, and that they use these diagrams to show their kids the various parts and explain how each part works. Ultimately, in a discussion about sex, you're going to talk about orgasms, so is there a difference in talking about a PARTNER bringing you to climax and you doing it YOURSELF?

Whether or not you should promote it is a separate question. And THAT is where the morality issue will come in.

[Prime]

Our schools sex ed policy was scare the daylights out of them.

Another interesting discussion point: Where should kids learn from. I agree with rusty: Rather the facts from parents than half-truths from the playground. Personally, my parents never spoke to me about sex. Our first sex ed class was Standard 8 (Grade 10) in high school, and I even managed to skip that one. I'm sure there must be some awkwardness in hearing it from your parents, but who else is better qualified to teach you?

(School policy stated that if you parents did not sign the permission slip you could not sit in. You had to instead sit on the field and have a free double period. I made sure my parents never saw the permission slip.)

well in primary school in standard 5, we all had to attend a sex ed class, where the teacher produced a TED issue wooden dildo-looked the a broom handle though. And attempted to show us how one puts a condom on. Almost no mention was made of sexual health beyond hiv aids.

In highschool, we were subjected to a series of video's of pam stenzel. In retrospect the women is nuts! Teaching people basic sense will go alot further towards preventing you getting an std or pregnant rather than telling everyone that they'll get hpv and die of cervical cancer if they have sex, with or without a condom.

never once has lubrication, hygiene, stimulation or anything else like that mentioned. *facepalm*

My parents have never discussed sex with me ( I have yet to determine the long term implications of this). And i've never asked them.

Last thing, while they may mean well, priests and school chaplains are the last ones who should teach sex ed. Regardless of your view on sex before marriage, i think the person needs to be objective, failing which, i think its the parents responsibility.

[Prime]

Well, I don't know for sure if it is a bad thing, and most people aren't. That's why it's grey It can lead to things that are quite obviously wrong, like porn. Maybe it could keep people from seeking out real relationships. Maybe it could turn them into hedonists. I don't know.

Lets leave the discussion on the rightness or wrongness of that out of this.

Yeah, ultimately it doesn't matter (in this context) whether you think it's right or wrong. Even if you believe masturbation to be morally wrong, that's not going to stop your kids hearing about it from other sources, and doesn't necessarily mean that you should not teach them about it. After all, I would assume that you consider murder to be wrong, and I would think that you wouldn't treat the word "murder" as taboo in your family one day. We teach our kids both what is right and what is wrong, so the morality doesn't play into it in that sense.

It's really just a question of how much detail you go into. The professional on the show in question suggested that parents keep diagrams of both male and female reproductive systems in the house, and that they use these diagrams to show their kids the various parts and explain how each part works. Ultimately, in a discussion about sex, you're going to talk about orgasms, so is there a difference in talking about a PARTNER bringing you to climax and you doing it YOURSELF?

Whether or not you should mote it is a separate question. And THAT is where the morality issue will come in.

I was actually refering to porn. but ayway. Yes, I agree with you, morality should not prevent you from discussing the matter with your childern.

[Stuart]

Last thing, while they may mean well, priests and school chaplains are the last ones who should teach sex ed. Regardless of your view on sex before marriage, i think the person needs to be objective, failing which, i think its the parents responsibility.

I agree. In fact, I'm not entirely comfortable with schools having sex education classes at all. I never thought about it growing up and so I never laid awak at night wishing that my dad would talk to me about sex, but the more I think about it now the more convinced I am that it is a parental responsibility.

I was actually refering to porn. but ayway. Yes, I agree with you, morality should not prevent you from discussing the matter with your childern.

Oh ... right ... Make me rant like a woman, why don't you?

[D3PART3D]

Prime, Agreed. Don't want Stu's thread totally derailed, I was just mentioning it to answer Anakha's question.

And the problem is?

well.. morally speaking, you're surprise-sexing your bed... and that is just..... well... wrong....

I take it the larger than average doses of sarcasm you use in the posts directed at me is some form of hostility. Whatever I did to you, get over it.

[hamin_aus]

I never laid awak at night wishing that my dad would talk to me about sex

My Dad waited until I was about 15 and then tried to give me the sex talk.
I was having none of it and sent him packing.

I realise I am the last person who should be giving parenting advice - but for what it's worth, better too early than too late.

You don't want to be closing the stable door after the horse has bolted - metaphorically speaking.

[UrBaN]

jamin_za, Agreed. Finally you make sense

O/T: Now, please check on my Rustywinks thread.

[Sojourn]

Having a fap isn't.

actually, it is... it's as natural, normal and necessary as having a functioning liver...

And then he went off (no pun) to have a fap.

[Prime]

Last thing, while they may mean well, priests and school chaplains are the last ones who should teach sex ed. Regardless of your view on sex before marriage, i think the person needs to be objective, failing which, i think its the parents responsibility.

I agree. In fact, I'm not entirely comfortable with schools having sex education classes at all. I never thought about it growing up and so I never laid awak at night wishing that my dad would talk to me about sex, but the more I think about it now the more convinced I am that it is a parental responsibility.

Generational thing I guess.

I was actually refering to porn. but ayway. Yes, I agree with you, morality should not prevent you from discussing the matter with your childern.

Oh ... right ... Make me rant like a woman, why don't you?

Because it's fun?

[Tribble]

Wow - this thread took a long time for me to go through. Like you - I was horrified when I saw that Oprah show. We were at my mother's and the kids were in the room. We switched it off as soon as we heard what the topic was. No - not because I am a prude, but because my kids must learn about that stuff from me and not from people who I don't know. And at 9 - my daughter is too young to learn about pleasuring herself. My 13 year old son is finding out about it.

I was also worried about when one should start. It is easier than that - the kids let you know. It starts by teaching them the correct words for the body parts (my friends and I disagree on this as they use all these cutsy names). You ensure that you have an open relationship with your kids so that they can ask questions. When all my kids were small - they asked about how they were made. And you start with the Great Sperm Race - you don't tell them how the sperm gets to where the egg is - they are not interested. When they hear that they had this race and they were the winners - that is all they focus on.

Then when they ask - can you get pregnant from kissing - that is when you explain that the sperm comes out of another organ. This generally surprises them. A few weeks later - they will ask if you can make a girl pregnant if stuff comes out onto your underwear and you are near a girl. That is when you explain penetration. This grosses them out completely.

You then sit down and explain love and that even once can made a baby. My daughter is really pretty and has a lovely body. I see how boys look at her and it is important for her to know what boys will try, say and do. Schools teach you the technical stuff like STDs and aids etc. But kids need to know how they will feel when someone touches them - so they can put a stop to it. When you are a teenager and are in a heated situation - it is really hard to say no. Children need to have enough self confidence and love themselves enough - not to let someone force them into something they do not want. And at such a young age - kids should not want sex. They need to know that it is amazing - but that it will be more amazing when they are older.

I was lucky - I was able to say no until I was 19. I am not sure my daughter will be able to as she is a very different person. I can only love her and teach her to respect herself and her desires. If she ever does it - she must be safe and she must be the one that wants to do it.

My son is easier - he is not into relationships yet. He is discovering how his body works though - and I have explained that it is natural to have wet dreams etc. I am not opposed to masturbation but I will not be teaching my kids how to do it. I have told them that it is fine to touch themselves - in private in their rooms. I also explain that if you touch it - have some tissue near you lol. I believe it is normal and very necessary. I was brought up to believe that it was dirty and only the lowest moral people did it. That is not true. Puppy is right when he says that it a normal bodily function. It reduces stress, lowers blood pressure, promotes sleep, keeps you sane. It is not for everyone. Some people don't like it - or believe it is wrong. They should be respected for their beliefs.

I will not be doing as Oprah suggests - masturbation is personal and it is a way for you to learn about your own body. You find out what is pleasurable, what you like and what you don't like. I guess that for guys it is different - but a woman needs to learn what she likes, and this helps her. Personally I believe that one comes before you are ready for the other - but my upbringing forced me to do it the other way round. I hope that my kids will be able to wait until they are old enough - but I an not naive. I want them to know the facts so that they can be prepared when it happens.

Wow - that is a lot of writing. I shall stop now.

[Tribble]

I think we need Tribble and jee in this thread, male sexuality is one thing, female sexuality is another.

You asked =- aren't you sorry you did?

[Tribble]

Well - and here comes flamebait for certain forumites whose names won't need mentioning - I don't think masturbation is correct.

That's my personal belief, but to me it is a perversion of the act of sex.

Sex is there as a means for procreation. Obviously it has an enjoyment factor hence this thread, but it's basic existence is down to procreation.

Masturbation is a perversion of that - it has no point or positive outcome (keep it clean dammit).

See my incredibly long post.......

[jee]

Aaah, Tribbs said a lot of what I was thinking as i read this tread. I however want to add.

We had a heated discussion on the topic in our office, and after that I changes my opinion on it slightly.

Firstly, lets look at male and female sexuality - and be warned - don't read my post if you are a prude
It is very easy for most males to have an orgasm almost all of the time.
It is NOT easy for a woman.

I like sex - so sue me but only learned of its true pleasures when i was in my 30s - due to the fact that, as a then Christian, I tried to be for my husband as the Bible said i had to be... I did many things to please him and never though of myself. Needless to say, there are very few young men that really know how to please a woman correctly (yeah, flame away - you have not learned yet the difference between pleasure and faking...)

A girl/woman who knows what she needs to have a satisfying O is a rare find (I'm not talking about those fortunate lasses who have been married for a number of years to the likes of the puppi ), This is also something that women, married for years, have never experienced, because they were taught that self pleasuring is a " perversion of the act of sex. Sex is there as a means for procreation".

Secondly, one has to look at our South African milieu oppose to America. I changed my first though to teach a child of 10 to pleasure him/herself as too young after having a chat at work - where girls of 10 often are forcibly active at that age, sometimes younger. If they have never learned that the experience does not always have to be like that, they will NEVER.

Thirdly - how many parents really teach their children about sex? How many parents really KNOW about sex, about the wonders and its dangers, about its satisfaction and stress relieving components and not its lie-back-and-think-of-England-the-ceiling-needs-a-paint grunting stressed happenings in the dark?

I think that one needs to monitor your children, and as Tribbs has said, each of them are unique, each of them will have their own time to learn about the difference of being grossed out and the fascinating feelings it can bring. The main thing is not to allow them to feel guilt. There is NOTHING wrong with self-pleasuring if done correctly. But then, too many lettuce leaves can be harmful, so watch it!

Be open with your children - have reading material lying around if they need it, love your partner in front of them (no, don't do the dirty deed, but hug, kiss, flirt and let then know that if the bedroom door is closed, whatever is happening behind it is MORE that ok... [and it will put both mom and dad in a good mood.......])

Lastly, my daughter grew up in a very open environment (sometimes too open) where everything from drugs, sex, witchcraft and all the likes were discussed and sometimes practiced. She was taught both sides of the stick, but more than anything else, she knew that nothing she did could be something that make me love her less, and that at any time she had a question, she could discuss it with me. Today she is 23 and a virgin - she will kill me for this, but she chose her own beliefs, she lives to the morals i taught her, she does not drink or use drugs.... but she knows all about pleasure

ok.. enough. The final point is that no matter at what age, children are vulnerable - and we cannot protect them each minute of the day. All we can do is to give them the ammunition to make sure that they can fend for themselves, and to know that we will always be there for them.

[hamin_aus]

what is this i dont even

[Stuart]

IMAGINE you have a 10- or 11-year-old child, just entering a public middle school. How would you feel if, as part of a class ostensibly about the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, he and his classmates were given “risk cards” that graphically named a variety of solitary and mutual sex acts? Or if, in another lesson, he was encouraged to disregard what you told him about sex, and to rely instead on teachers and health clinic staff members?

That prospect would horrify most parents. But such lessons are part of a middle-school curriculum that Dennis M. Walcott, the New York City schools chancellor, has recommended for his system’s newly mandated sex-education classes. There is a parental “opt out,” but it is very limited, covering classes on contraception and birth control.

Observers can quarrel about the extent to which what is being mandated is an effect, or a contributing cause, of the sexualization of children in our society at younger ages. But no one can plausibly claim that teaching middle-schoolers about mutual masturbation is “neutral” between competing views of morality; the idea of “value free” sex education was exploded as a myth long ago. The effect of such lessons is as much to promote a certain sexual ideology among the young as it is to protect their health.

But beyond rival moral visions, the new policy raises a deeper issue: Should the government force parents — at least those not rich enough to afford private schooling — to send their children to classes that may contradict their moral and religious values on matters of intimacy and personal conduct?

Liberals and conservatives alike should say no. Such policies violate parents’ rights, whether they are Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or of no religion at all. To see why, we need to think carefully about the parent-child relationship that gives rise to the duties that parental rights serve and protect.

Parents are responsible for bringing new people into the world, bound to them by blood and, ordinarily, deep feeling. These people are incapable of developing their uniquely human capacities on their own, giving parents an obligation to their children and to society to help them reach maturity — one that requires attending not only to children’s physical and emotional needs, but their intellectual and moral growth as well.

Parenting, especially in moral and religious matters, is very important and highly personal: while parents enlist others’ help in this task, the task is theirs. They are ultimately responsible for their children’s intellectual and moral maturity, so within broad limits they must be free to educate their children, especially on the deepest matters, as they judge best. This is why parental rights are so important: they provide a zone of sovereignty, a moral space to fulfill their obligations according to their consciences.

The right to parent is rather like the right to exercise one’s religion. Like parental duties, religious duties are serious and highly personal. This is why, absent the most serious reasons, it would be a grave violation of individual rights if the state prevented people from honoring what they regarded as their religious obligations. To subject children to indoctrination in deeply personal matters against their parents’ consciences is no less a violation than forcing Muslim parents to send their children to a Catholic Mass.

True, the state needs to protect children from abuse and neglect. It is also true that the state has a legitimate interest in reducing teenage pregnancy and the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. But it is not abuse or neglect to protect the innocence of preteenage children or to teach one’s children more conservative, as opposed to more liberal, moral values. Nor is it wrong or unreasonable to limit the state’s control over what one’s children learn and think about sensitive issues of morality. On the contrary, that is just what is required if parents are to fulfill their duties and exercise their legitimate rights.

Unless a broader parental opt out is added, New York City’s new policies will continue to usurp parents’ just (and constitutionally recognized) authority. Turning a classroom into a mandatory catechism lesson for a contested ideology is a serious violation of parental rights, and citizens of every ideological hue should stand up and oppose it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opini ... ights.html

[GreyWolf]

tl;dr
Parents need to be more involved in their children's upbringing.

Why is this being treated a new discovery?

[Tribble]

I would not like my kids being given cards with sexually explicit images on at that age (or any age - they must find their own porn). I understand the need to educate children but discussing is very different from showing. I don't like that idea at all.

[Anakha56]

they must find their own porn

BEST MOM EVAR!!!

Seriously that was quite fun in my teens hunting down porn, taking it to school and bragging about it. Ah the simple life of being a teenager...

[Tribble]

Lol your poor mother. I bet she never knew. I, on the other hand, would rather know. Certain things out there require explanation. But not from a nurse or an educator. After what they teach the kids about evolution and religion - I do not wanting them making sex dirty. (not at their age)