The Firearm Thread

[Nuke]

Ok guys I'm turning 21 soon and I'm now looking for a weapon. That combined with the amount of attacks in my close area is the reason for this thread.

For me the most importent aspects is quality of weapon, round price/availability and magazine capacity. The 9mm parabellum looks best in that aera IMO.

My options sofar.
SIG Sauer P226 - official 20 round magazines, awesome quality but very expensive.

CZ 75 - 15 round mag, far cheaper.


Any other ideas? Anyone used a SIG before?

BTW it can turn into a general discussion.

[Monty]

Do not buy a firearm for protection! You will turn yourself in to a target.

A gun is useful against one, maybe two attackers (if you are very good) and most of the violence and so on now is a gang of guys

[DeathStrike]

ok so then what weapon would u recommend?

[Monty]

For protection: none.

The safest thing you can do is listen and obey.

[Ron2K]

I must say that I agree with Monty on this one - my personal opinion is that weapons cause more problems than they solve.

[Tribble]

I agree - but if you insist on getting one you must go for training. It is vital that you are prepared to use it if you have it.

[doo_much]

I agree - but if you insist on getting one you must go for training. It is vital that you are prepared to use it if you have it.

Spent some time in the old SADF, trained some and fought with others so my 2p worth.

Training only goes that far.
Being on a firing range taking pot-shots at paper targets is one thing - aiming at a human being and squeezing the trigger another.

And even then most would miss.

Best defence is to not be a target.

[Anthro]

My dad was in 32 Bt, and I am getting all of his weapons..
Personal preference is CZ75, or even (if you can afford) a Glock 9mm

[Koko_Lion]

I think, that owning a gun is like owning a car, if you don't know what your doing and are careless your going to get hurt. You should only reveal your firearm when your life is immediate danger (and you can prove that in court if necessary) and you should now exactly how your specific weapon operates.

You should think about what the weapon will be used for and what are the most likely scenario you will encounter. Guns with a bigger stopping power generally take less ammunition, like the 357 Magnum (If you can find one). One warning shot from a 357 will make any number of intruders think twice.

CZ and the Glocks are very good weapons. If you got the money, get a Glock

[Nuke]

Do not buy a firearm for protection! You will turn yourself in to a target.

I'm not worried about normal hijacks, breakins, etc. What happend at my friend was that 8 guys came to kill, not to rob. The attackers fired about 30 rounds in 12 min the fight lasted. The only thing stopping them was the resistance from the house. Theirs were only one of the many in the area.

I won't be carrying it around, so it won't turn me into a target. If no-one know I have it, they won't come after it.

Reason I'm looking at the P226 is its the SEAL's weapon, it replaced the Berretta 92F. THe P226 is actaully more expensive that the Glock 17. Between $1100 - $1750 depending on that model you get.

I'm not a great fan of the 'plasic gun' idea though it is lighter. but that is just personal prefrence.

The 357 Magnum is an awesome round, but 6 shots is not my idea of fun. I will be buying atleast 5x 20 round mags. From above scenario, Lots of lead in the air will be better than fewer, more deadly lead in the air.

[CRAZYIRISHMAN121]

I would look into that CZ my dad has a CZ 7.65mm with a 8 Round magazine realy Awsome gun so if it is at a good price go for the CZ

[rustypup]

from a safety POV, sig all the way, but the glock tends to be more accurate, (at least for me... i suffer from a slight case of RSI in my left wrist and the glock's trigger control just works for me..)

the 357 is completely pants in most situations... 3 shots in and the recoil will have trashed your accuracy...

[Prime]

Do not buy a firearm for protection! You will turn yourself in to a target.

I'm not worried about normal hijacks, breakins, etc. What happend at my friend was that 8 guys came to kill, not to rob. The attackers fired about 30 rounds in 12 min the fight lasted. The only thing stopping them was the resistance from the house. Theirs were only one of the many in the area.

I won't be carrying it around, so it won't turn me into a target. If no-one know I have it, they won't come after it.

Reason I'm looking at the P226 is its the SEAL's weapon, it replaced the Berretta 92F. THe P226 is actaully more expensive that the Glock 17. Between $1100 - $1750 depending on that model you get.

I'm not a great fan of the 'plasic gun' idea though it is lighter. but that is just personal prefrence.

The 357 Magnum is an awesome round, but 6 shots is not my idea of fun. I will be buying atleast 5x 20 round mags. From above scenario, Lots of lead in the air will be better than fewer, more deadly lead in the air.

They will actually know because a little cash to the right individual at the police station will tell them you have registered a firearm.

I also agree with Monty, besides, the guys are so hyped on adrenalin that unless its a really well placed shot, the injury won't affect them for several minutes.

Although from personal experience, if its a few guys, you can also run like hell. it worked for me. Unless they are actually pointing a gun or knife at you, if you react fast enough, they won't have a chance to harm you. Some guys tried to mug me.

[RiaX]

Oh no lion not that simple proving to the court. If you kill a man on the freeway (by knocking him of course) you get charged with 3rd degree murder or manslaughter even though the pedestrians are forbbiden to enter the national freeways. Our courts law is different and not as simple like that you see on tv and you will be locked up until your trail date which will be in 2 or 3 years.

Secondly, getting a firearm cause you are 21 isnt as easy as you think, today with the new gun control act its not so simple to say "im old now gimme my license". You got to get some certificates that say you are capable of handling the weapon.

Thirdly, if its for your protection im pretty sure it will end up having you killed, obey and listen is your best bet (not guaranteed though), but you must remember by the time you realise you in the type of situation where you kill or be killed its probably to late and the robbers already know what they want so they one step ahead of you, and drawing a firearm will just increase the tension and then making them more likely to kill you.

Finally, to nuke, you turning 21 still young and i take you havent shot anyone before its not as simple as pulling the trigger (the result will be grim for you should you do it) but the criminals and gangsters are used to it they will not hesitate to shoot, so should you get a gun it probably would cost you your life and give another weapon to the bad guys should that scenario ever arise (hope it dont)....

So i advise against it dude

[IcePick88]

Nuke, this just shows your maturity level.

Juts because you are old enough to buy a weapon, does not mean that you are competent to own one. Besides all the hoops that you need to jump through to get a license, you also have to consider the dangers of it not only to you, but your family as well. A kid walking around with a glock 17 or whatever is a recipe for disaster.

Like someone said, shooting at a paper target is easy, shooting at human beings is another. This is not COD4. To get trigger happy when you are highjacked, spells death, cuz if you even look at them the wrong way, you can get shot, nevermind brandishing a weapon.

Then there is also the case of getting a safe (which is required by law) to stash it in. How fast do you think you will be able to open the safe when the robbers attack you while you are sleeping?

All these things needs to be taken into account before making a decision like this.

[qwiksilva666]

I have a hatsan & arms mod70 break barrel air rifle cost about R2000 and doesnt require age/safe/license etc.

yoo go buy, yoo go shoot. no legal applications and shyte.

http://www.hatsan.com.tr/airguns_mod_70.asp

[Pieterpan]

Nuke, this just shows your maturity level.

Juts because you are old enough to buy a weapon, does not mean that you are competent to own one. Besides all the hoops that you need to jump through to get a license, you also have to consider the dangers of it not only to you, but your family as well. A kid walking around with a glock 17 or whatever is a recipe for disaster.

Like someone said, shooting at a paper target is easy, shooting at human beings is another. This is not COD4. To get trigger happy when you are highjacked, spells death, cuz if you even look at them the wrong way, you can get shot, nevermind brandishing a weapon.

Then there is also the case of getting a safe (which is required by law) to stash it in. How fast do you think you will be able to open the safe when the robbers attack you while you are sleeping?

All these things needs to be taken into account before making a decision like this.

I have to agree. Before you even think of buying a gun go for training . best thing is to do wat they want .even if you have a weapon do really have what it takes to use it when you need too or are you gonne freeze up and get shot by your own gun. Household stuff can be replaced a life cant.

[capanno]

Im also in the process of applying for a license, and I have to say its not an easy task. Here some info for complete noobs.

1. You need to do an exam about the gun law.
2. Then you need to do a unit standard exam or exams, theory and practical. You get 4 types; handgun, rifle, shotgun and carbine, but apparently no one can get a carbine. I did the law and 2 unit standards and it cost R1600. When you pass all those at 100%, you are found competent to use a firearm.
3. Then you need to have an installed safe that passes the standards of 2mm steel on all sides, and there was something else I can't remember. Has to do with the lock I think. The safe must be inspected by an official from the police and given the thumbs up. Then you are found competent to safely store a firearm. Only then can you apply to own one.
4. To apply you have to be 21, obviously. The main thing that comes in with the application is your motivation. If you write "self defense" they will deny it without thinking twice. You need to give them proof, like newspaper articles, photos, statistics, etc. Anything. For my handgun I have stats about hijack locations, and I highlighted the areas where I drive. I also have a newspaper article about an armed robbery close to our house which will help my cause greatly. I will also get signed letters from people with whom I went out to do target shooting, telling the official that I used their firearm under their supervision. Im still looking around for stuff to add. You can't have enough. I was told that only 3% of applicants get their license, so do it right the first time around. If you want a gun for hunting, don't just write it down. Get letters from farmers, add pictures of you with something you shot, etc.

Right now new applications have a higher priority than old renewals, strangely. So hopefully the process will only take a few months once the papers are in.

I just want a gun because they are cool and I enjoy shooting. I hope that I never have to use it in self defense.

[GDI_Lord]

Someone I know (not me) has a safe right next to his bed that he just taps in a code, it silently slides open (very cool hydraulics/whatever) or one can open it manually and there we go, Colt .45 with two magazines.

[KillerByte]

Nice interesting thread.

Firstly, I do not own a firearm. Currently I cannot afford it but I do plan to buy myself an Electra Muzzle Loader .50 cal.
The law says that you do not need a license for a muzzle loader.

My uncle is ex-SAPS. Currently he has a special collectors permit to purchase only CZs. Included in his collection is a CZ75 Cadet (.22 training pistol, exactly the same as the 9mm except only smaller rounds), CZ75 9mm, .375 magnum, .38 Special.

Those are his pistols, which we are taking to the firing range tomorrow to practice. His rifle's include the Electra Muzzle loader .50 cal., a CZ .300 WSM, break double barrel shotgun, .243 and I can't recall the rest. In total its about 6 rifles.

Bare in mind that not even his wife, who has passed her competency certificate can get her license. the .38 is hers but its under his name cause she can't get a license. It took my uncle 18 months to get the license for the .300 WSM, and that is a man with a collectors permit and years on the force. His grouping at the range is better than the SA team guys who were there and his firing rate drew a crowd.

Some one said that they wanted to get 5x 20 round mags, please note that there is a limit to the number of rounds that you can posses at one time. I just phoned my uncle and the limit is 200 rounds per fire arm. He says his 9mm rounds cost about R2 a piece.

I think that getting a firearm for protection is stupid, I want a fire arm because a) I like guns, b) I think that shooting as a sport is a good hobby.

[Monty]

capanno, don't the safes have to be fireproof?


It is a bit pointless having a handgun for protection in a country where the break ins, hijackings etc are done by more than one person and you are often going to be out gunned



Next year I will probably apply for a license for a .22 so I can begin competition shooting again - Yay!

[KillerByte]

Next year I will probably apply for a license for a .22 so I can begin competition shooting again - Yay!

Good luck. If you do get a license then I will be jealous.

[Anthro]

Monty,
We now have two things in common..
Competition shooting.. and MTB :-0

[KillerByte]

Any one else fired a .50 rifle?

I did the muzzle loader .50 (not sure on the weight of the round) with a nice 85 grain powder charge. Does not kick too much but it kicks a lot more than the .300 WSM.

[Monty]

Next year I will probably apply for a license for a .22 so I can begin competition shooting again - Yay!

Good luck. If you do get a license then I will be jealous.

Lol. I have got an advantage: four years of compition shooting behind my name already from school

Monty,
We now have two things in common..
Competition shooting.. and MTB :-0

lol three actually, you forgot about computers