my car audio setup - updates

[naughty]

not going to type it all out again - so heres a link to a thread at another forum cos most people here are registerd there - if you are not then you can just comment here instead

http://www.systemshock.co.za/forums/ind ... opic=25269

still havent started the install but it will be done only by early next year - but you can read about the equipment list if you like - some people will love it - others will hate it - which camp do you fall into

[Frozenfireside]

Abrie's corsa
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/ ... Wiring.jpg
proof that looks are not everything.

No offence but please list the hardware here-I'm so not looking for 5-10 lines of writing in a thread of such shiny pics. My ADD brain can't concentrate long enough.

[naughty]

well the system will comprise of the following when its done

1) Kenwood K-CD01 (if i sell this then replaced with alpine 9887)
2) kenwood 6 disc cd changer (if i sell the kenwood head unit - this goes with it)
3) Phoenix gold Xenon x200.4 amplifier
4) Phoenix Gold Xenon x1200.1 monoblock
5) Phoenix Gold Tbat balanced line transmitter
6) Phoenix Gold EQ230 graphic equaliser
7) MB Quart QSD Q-line component split set
8 ) Hertz HL70 3" midrange driver
9) Morel Ultimo 12" subwoofer
10) custom built enclosure and install
11) various accessories and distribution blocks
12) Optima Yellowtop battery
13) audio quest interconnects
14) Dali and Audison speaker cables
15) shedloads of Dynamat and dynaxorb
16) homebuilt LPL44 low pass level subwoofer attenuator to use with monoblock amp)

does that help your ADD much - BTW system is not going to be only comprising of an equipment list thats gonna be 5 lines long

such shiny pics

normally everyone ignores the writing and only looks at the pics - sorry that you found them too shiny - i cant afford a better camera ..... you can see where my money is going too (even though i didnt spend this cos ive bought some of it second hand - replacement value on everything there new is around over R50k in total)

as for Abries Corsa - well he needs to have a demo car whch will comprise of the best of everything since he is a dealer but yeah that car will eventually look great when he completes it - so looks are pretty important whichever way you cut it - its still nowhere near complete - and when he does eventually complete it it will definitely be counterproductive to that looks isnt everything argument

[maxxis]

Your equipment list is now known as the 16 commandments of car audio.

Impressive list of goodies man. Im sure the car is going to sound beyong great.

[naughty]

Your equipment list is now known as the 16 commandments of car audio.

Impressive list of goodies man. Im sure the car is going to sound beyong great.

LOL - you cant call it that cos there are definitely better and more expensive items you can buy - so nope it isnt anything anywhere near a commandment - but yeah it is okay as equipment goes cos there is a decent amount of high end stuff in amongst all the entry level stuff

i hope that the car does eventually sound great though - sometimes getting too complicated just spoils the effect - and sometimes just staying plain and simple just works just as well if not better

waiting to also see how your car turns out - as well as frozenfiresides - i will soon be paying a visit to one of those Gauteng workshops - so i hope by then my car will be ready and im sure yours will be completed way before mine - your equipment list reads as impressive as well

[maxxis]

Thanks.

Im really keeping it simple. Just a ****** of fabrication to be done. I finished up the doors tonight. Just need to fill the door panels with foam of decron and fit the dynaxorb pads.

Then build the door pods to house the midbass drivers.

Strip the interior to redo the cabling.

Then hope I have enough dynamat because if I hear resonance or a rattle after the past three days im going to cry.

Let me know which SQ workshop you are coming to. Would love to meet you man.

[I34z1k]

Yep, Nittin is one of the few that I'd still like to meet Let us know Might make the trek up from down here to check it out too

[naughty]

Just need to fill the door panels with foam of decron and fit the dynaxorb pads.

make sure the windows can still open before you go and fill up all the open gaps

Yep, Nittin is one of the few that I'd still like to meet Let us know Might make the trek up from down here to check it out too

hey will be great to meet all you guys - will make sure i let everyone know in advance when im coming up - just want to complete the car a bit first - cos right now it looks rubbish even though it sounds decent - not gonna be too hard to make it look good though just needs some time and attention - so it will probably be be sometime in January of Feb (not too far away from now)

[Hex_Rated]

Wow!

naughty, have you ever considered using digital? Or do audio enthusiasts rather stick to analogue? The speaker wiring would obviously need to be high quality analogue from the amp, but what about using digital output from the head unit?

Because I'm thinking if you use digital you can use a carputer to do most of the equalizing. Or is that not as good as very high quality custom analogue filtering yet?

[naughty]

Wow!

naughty, have you ever considered using digital? Or do audio enthusiasts rather stick to analogue? The speaker wiring would obviously need to be high quality analogue from the amp, but what about using digital output from the head unit?

Because I'm thinking if you use digital you can use a carputer to do most of the equalizing. Or is that not as good as very high quality custom analogue filtering yet?

nothing wrong with digital processing - but most of the time it can only be done if the head unit has a digital output - which less than 0,1% of car audio units will have - the other option is to bypass the Dac by modifying the head unit to output a digital signal - ive seen this done but only by very experienced engineers - i wouldnt even know how to go about doing this - then the other option os to actually bypass using a head unit altogether and to use a laptop or carputer with an external sound card as the source - which means that you need to figure out some ways of powering those from the battery of the vehicle and get creative to make discs play unless you want to use MP3's which will then negate the benefits ie the digital processing makes things better but using MP3's gets them a step backward

the audio will eventually need to be converted back to analog anyway - and very few carputers will come close to burr brown 24 bit DAC's for this purpose - even the guy i say that i know who converted his head units outputs to digital did so to use his headunit to feed a recording studio quality DAC - which then fed the signal to a carputer to do the crossover filtering and Equalization duties in analog mode and then on to the amplifiers

so yeah it can be done but you need to get hypercreative and then it becomes a bit like reinventing the wheel cos there are already conventional high end parts which will do a slightly better job eventually - but yeah if anyone is up for the work it involves it can be done - will need loads of research though and careful selection of parts to do it but ive seen it done from carputers which eventually integrate with dvd playback and satnav functionality with complete surround sound in the vehicle - but i cant use that whilst driving so im going to stick to the conventional route instead of going high tech

[Hex_Rated]

So it's not worth it. I know what it would take to digitize the analogue output, a really good ADC but if you going digital it should be directly from the head unit. ie no ADC, DIRECT from the DSP in the head unit via SPDIF or whatever digi format they using these days.

Computers would make excellent equalizers if you could put a few top notch pro sound cards in (NOT CREATIVE!) and fine tune it and just mount a touchscreen as the head unit.

then the other option os to actually bypass using a head unit altogether and to use a laptop or carputer with an external sound card as the source

That's my dream. I had the design all worked out at one stage. I was planning to write the user interface myself. It would be the most awesome project ever! Way out of my budget and time though. I'm sure I saw some software UI already written using Linux. The UI would be key though, crap UI would ruin the entire thing. I was also planning to fabricate some buttons and knobs that connect directly to a PIC micro and send signals via RS232 commands to the PC (volume adjust and next track). You could mount it in your steering wheel and have the touch screen to do major changes. But getting good looking stuff is expensive! Fabrication is not my thing, you would probably be able to hook that up from the look of your ride.

The thing about a carputer is you can have GPS and internet in your car all controlled by one central module. It's so flexible that you could integrate almost anything into it that you find necessary. You can upgrade and add whatever you want!

It will probably eventually go all digital. All the way to the amp and it would have the DAC inside (I see some already take SPDIF). At the end of the day it would be the quality of your amp that would make the most difference. Digital is digital all the way through. Zero noise.

[Belix]

Hmm, I think I need to sell you something again to take another ride in the mobile once it's done. Quite a list!

PS what is that silver tin foil looking stuff everyone seems to be lining their cars with these days?

[Frozenfireside]

well the system will comprise of the following when its done
1) Kenwood K-CD01 (if i sell this then replaced with alpine 9887)

etc etc etc

OMG that's a nice list! I've heard that Alpine you want is insane. People offering lots of cash in the SNS forums and people not selling.

[naughty]

well the system will comprise of the following when its done
1) Kenwood K-CD01 (if i sell this then replaced with alpine 9887)

etc etc etc

OMG that's a nice list! I've heard that Alpine you want is insane. People offering lots of cash in the SNS forums and people not selling.

well the official price with the warranties is R4600 - but im sure i could swing it to be a bit less than that - and the grey stock of it does go for R3200 at autostyle - fact is ive bought my previous alpines from autostyle and havent had a problem with them - but i do have some contacts up my sleeve to get it for a bit cheaper from Navsonic (the new alpine agents) - so if i find a buyer for my headunit i will definitely make more concrete enquiries as to what price i can get it for

PS what is that silver tin foil looking stuff everyone seems to be lining their cars with these days?

thats dynamat - its a sound damping material - its actually heavy stuff that adds weight to the panels so they do not resonate - also they dont allow heat to pass through and also make it difficult for noise to penetrate covered panels so its also a kind of sound proofing - they also do some stuff to make computers quieter - heres a link for their website

http://www.dynamat.com/products_intro.html

[maxxis]

Its also the only thing in existence that can turn you hands into two balls of cramping pain. Trust me. I can't type this morning.

What are you thoughts on the Clarion HXD2?

[naughty]

What are you thoughts on the Clarion HXD2?

id buy one like a shot if i could find one - those things are more rare than hen's teeth - and when new those things were around R8k - so it should give you an indication of how good those things are - trust me that price is not due to it being a fashionable item

its a fair step up from my K-CD01 where i would consider the alpine more of a sidegrade instead of being an upgrade - cos most of the time i just disable all the fancy functions of the headunit by using source direct anyway including disabling the T/A and EQ and crossover functionality - may just play around with them though to see if i can get the sound exactly as i want it with the T/A

[naughty]

wow - i dunno if im just very unfit or just getting old - but i decided to install the EQ and the 1200.1 amp just to see if they work well and check how the car sounds with them in - so i started work and i can only manage an hour of doing stuff before i need to sit down and take a break LOL

i keep on telling myself that im stopping to plan out my next move - but the fact is i am not as young as i once was and im getting tired very easily

anyways on to the pics

getting rid of all the excess wiring that i dont need - heres the 200.4 and Quart passives - gonna just biamp the mids and tweeters off the passives for now - so the 200.4 will be powering only the component set



now working in the hatch - the EQ mounted and amp being prepared



amp mounted as well



so now all i have to do is sort out the wiring and the remote wire must get plugged into the relay - and then its just a matter of putting in a fuse at the front - and im sure i will be starting to tune in around another two hours time unless i stop for another break before then LOL

remember though this is all temporary - just to see if it all works - will be starting the real install when i have everything ie the dynamat extreme and also the tbat transmitter

[maxxis]

Are you attending the workshop tonight?

Anyhoo. I know all about temp install to see how it will work

I must say that is awesome for a temp install. !!!

[naughty]

Are you attending the workshop tonight?

Anyhoo. I know all about temp install to see how it will work

I must say that is awesome for a temp install. !!!

yeppers - have to listen to Abrie's and Ant's cars - so i will definitely be there - just charged up the camera so will have loads of pics - will get someone to post them on the SnS forum (maybe)

as far as the permanent install goes - if it works out according to my plan there is going to be loads of eye candy coming up - wanna make this into a one of a kind showcar as well as make it sound great

[maxxis]

I like they way you think.

Ive listened to Abrie's car and its mind blowing to say the least. Still need to hop into Ant's car but ill do that next weekend at the JHB workshop.

[Hex_Rated]

How important is THD when building a system. Is it overrated? I assume the subs can have higher THD than your mids and the front speakers should have the lowest (ie best)?

[naughty]

yes the lower is definitely the better because THD refers to the tendency of a component to play multiples of the fundemental frequencies - for example you have a frequency of 50 hz which a sub will be producing - but you are filtering the sub at around 60hz with a crossover - but the sub will still want to play frequencies of 100hz then 200hz - then 400hz - but at those frequencies it will cause distortions that will smear the sound and make it indistinguishable from any other sound (but thats one of the reasons why you filtering that speaker so that the harmful frequencies are reduced or removed)

but with modern equipment - they take all of this into account when building all these items and the figure of THD that are less than 1% are more or less insignificant since they wont be very audible to your ears but generally they would be at around 0,1% or 0,08% - only with Valve amps (tube amps) would you get figures of around 10% that are acceptable - but Valve amps are a rare breed of high end audio and that distortion counts toward their warm characteristic sound quality - this wont affect a majority of people because their hearing wont be good enough to detect the changes in THD and most simply wont know the difference - and in terms of the valve amps - mere mortals wont afford those in a hurry

so i wouldnt bother too much with THD when it comes to speakers - i base my choices more on sensitivity and required enclosure space ie some would need larger enclosures whilst others would need smaller enclosures and some are optimised to work without and enclosure - all of that would have a greater impact on your selection of speakers - so yeah most of the time the THD rating on a speaker is of negligible and insignificant values cos it does not affect what you hear by a whole lot that you would be able to perceive - so i wouldnt really take too much notice of it - just avoid anything with more than 1% THD as a yardstick cos modern designing methods should allow most components to be designed with a fraction of that in respect to THD - in other words - nowadays even low quality speakers have a very low THD - and that wouldnt be a measure of how poor or great a speaker would be

[naughty]

my experiment with the Morel sub was going well cos its a truly awesome subwoofer - but i think i was definitely spoiled with the experience of having a 15" sub so sadly i was left wanting more size and more oomph from a subwoofer - now by this i dont mean it needed to pound - cos the morel could do that too but when you listen to a well set up hi-fidelity system it needs to sound warm and give you this feeling of instant power and you should feel the bass as much as you hear it even when its soft enough to just barely be heard - the morel could easily give you that effect but hey im a greedy guts - i wanted more - so i set about putting in a feeler advert over at speed and sound forums - im sure i will regret this but the morel was sold within 15 minutes because it landed up representing such a bargain and now heres how the rest of the story unfolds

this is what arrived into Govan Mani the other day - they needed a staff member or two to put it onto the trolley



this damn thing is huge - dunno how im going to move this thing to get access to the spare tyre - already its giving me headaches i couldnt imagine but the damns thing looks good - in the same way a ferrari looks like it could go over 300km/h this thing looks like it can give you lots of "deebees" - at least thats what everyone who sees it is gonna say - but im probably gonna be told "hey you wasting a 15" sub and monoblock - im sure that it can push a lot more than that"



so i cant decide - do i show off the basket or do i show off the cone - ideal thing to do is buy a huge van and have 4 of these - two showing the cones and two showing the baskets - but planning begins in earnest now - only thing is now i need to make a plan for the huge crane i need to shift this thing when i need the spare wheel - or i got to make sure i dont have any punctures - or i got to get towed and have a huge procedure to change the spare at home



LOL its a huge headache now i wonder how much a 2 cubic foot box and this thing together is going to weigh

[Vampyre_2099]

You gonna have to heighten your suspension. How heavy is that sub? must be roughly 10kg? anyway, I prefer seeing the cone, I never liked the reverse sub look

[naughty]

You gonna have to heighten your suspension. How heavy is that sub? must be roughly 10kg? anyway, I prefer seeing the cone, I never liked the reverse sub look

nah - dont need to do anything to the suspension - a car is designed to carry three passengers - i weigh around 8okg - so what would three average people weigh - plus you could also have a passenger upfront plus driver - so a car suspension can take a lot of weight

the sub actually weighs 20.9kg packed in the box - but the cardboard box probably doesnt even weigh more than the 0.9kg - so the sub is around approx 20kg before being put into an enclosure - the amps are around 6 kg each as well

the problem with showing the cone with this sub is space - to build a conventional enclosure big enough to fit it plus to have two amplifiers that are 55cm x 30ms in area is going to be a challenge - plus to build it in a way that allows access to the spare tyre