Neon Genesis Evangelion (Spoilers)

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 21 May 2006, 15:16

I think 3 times, could have been more before the series started. Also seeing spoilers.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 21 May 2006, 15:47

Easy answer = 3x times - "I think I'm the third".

Though I'll go with the latter ja because they speak of trial and error concerning the dummy-plug system.

__________

Who killed Kaji?

Ashley_Pops · Post by **Ashley_Pops** » 22 May 2006, 10:24

I thought that the End of Evangelion was probably the most depressing movie I ever watched, but that was what I liked about it. In relation to the series I dont believe they they could have come up with a better ending to the movie. In short I think it was perfect because compared to the usual happy ending crap we get fed all the time this was a bad ending. But thats what the final message was wasn't it, harsh reality is still better than fake happiness

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 22 May 2006, 19:47

Interesting view...

The ending may have been payback hey?

Did you guys know that real hate-mail sent to GAINAX after the TV ending was displayed on a few computer screens in Death And Rebirth / The End Of Evangelion?

Eva's linked to way to many outside references to ever completely understand.

In short it's a little to complicated for your average anime fan.

This however, is what made it unique. Which is why Evangelion remains a talked-about subject to this day. 11 **** years after first airing in 1995, we still see it sitting in many top slots.

Sure many rate it's rubbish, then again, many don't...

__________

No one know's who killed Kaji? I can merely speculate also guys so let's hear it.

Me - Gendo Ikari.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 23 May 2006, 08:42

Synkronos are your being spiteful or are you stupid?

This thread was started for the sole reason to be discussed da. If you had cared to notice you would have seen it started -off this way on the very first page.

If it's not to much trouble, think man.

How the hell can anyone spoil something that's 11 years old hey?

If you've not seen it yet, then the problem is yours. Don't make it ours.

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 23 May 2006, 08:45

Huh? Did I miss something?
Hehehe, prob deleted post or something...

Evade · Post by **Evade** » 23 May 2006, 08:49

End of Eva was the very first anime i saw (part from thunder cats wen i was like 6/7) the series that ends with all the different perceptions of shinji....
saw the moive as well, and i found it 2 be so confusing, but this 'comfusion' drew me 2 anime, its like the dude that made it is on a higher lvl....

Black-Ice · Post by **Black-Ice** » 23 May 2006, 09:19

Evade wrote:End of Eva was the very first anime i saw (part from thunder cats wen i was like 6/7) the series that ends with all the different perceptions of shinji....
saw the moive as well, and i found it 2 be so confusing, but this 'confusion' drew me 2 anime, its like the dude that made it is on a higher lvl....

You can say that again. I don't care what anyone else says, as old as eva is its still brilliant.

Post by **Synkronos** » 23 May 2006, 11:46

Rayne wrote:This thread was started for the sole reason to be discussed da. If you had cared to notice you would have seen it started -off this way on the very first page.

Then get the title changed, n00b. A couple of post saying 'let's spoil' over 6 months ago don't cut it.

Rayne wrote:How the hell can anyone spoil something that's 11 years old hey?

Same way you spoil anything else.

Rayne wrote:If you've not seen it yet, then the problem is yours. Don't make it ours.

Sadly, that's not really how it works. Personally, I'm not too worried about spoilers. I seldom find that knowing a story beforehand ruins the watching experience for me. But it's not just about me, it's about all the forum goers.

So anyway, I've changed the title. In future, make sure all threads you want to spoil in are clearly marked as such. And I'll ignore the fact that you insulted me.

Ashley_Pops · Post by **Ashley_Pops** » 23 May 2006, 11:52

Synkronos wrote:Sadly, that's not really how it works. Personally, I'm not too worried about spoilers. I seldom find that knowing a story beforehand ruins the watching experience for me. But it's not just about me, it's about all the forum goers.

You know, I havent heard any of the other forum goers complaining

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 23 May 2006, 14:09

Yeah I have not complained... And I have yet to watch this... I for one know that when us anime n00bs create threads that have just the title in, it is either to discuss it - so obviously we take it you have watched it - or it is to give mini reviews if that thing is still ongoing or to be released...

Evade · Post by **Evade** » 23 May 2006, 14:11

Off-The-Chart wrote:Yeah I have not complained... And I have yet to watch this... I for one know that when us anime n00bs create threads that have just the title in, it is either to discuss it - so obviously we take it you have watched it - or it is to give mini reviews if that thing is still ongoing or to be released...

yip yip!

sup dude....

Post by **Synkronos** » 23 May 2006, 15:04

There have been complaints in other threads in the past, from other people that are not you four. Hence the no spoiling without clearly marking it rule.

Enough spamming of this thread. Back to EVA discussion

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 24 May 2006, 10:54

/ @ Synkronos :

I apologize for insulting you.

However, I expect you to note what you are editing before you do so. /

In any case, what's done is done so lets forget it > ... moving on >

I'm not sure how many people here are yet to watch Evangelion. From personal experience though, I infact recommend those who hasn't at the very least follow and read Nuke's link posted on the first page before they do. Links found there like the "Evangelion FAQ" and "A Guide To" I suggest reading after watching the 26x part series, 4x director's cuts of eps 21-24 and the extended finale Death and Rebirth and The End Of Evangelion, which replaces the TV ending eps 25-26.

The most recent release, The Revival Of Evangelion, I am yet to see myself. A little browsing however revealed that this movie is just a remastered bundled version of Death And Rebirth and The End Of Evangelion. I can as such not share any thoughts on this, although I would love to hear some.

Interesting to know that Evangelion's interpretation will as a fact differ from person to person according to personality-type. That's how it was written. There's no single aspect, there's many. As such there is no right or wrong per se. Make of it what you want to. No single conclusion can really be made.

The story thrives on man's weakness, emotion. Everything is build on this foundation. Happyness leads to sadness - joy lead to tears - love leads to a broken heart - trust leads to betrayal - hope leads to doubt.

From the 3x main characters Rei, Shinji and Asuka who's linked according to personality to the MAGI supercomputer systems Casper, Melchior and Balthasar who's in turn linked to Gendo, Kozo and Ritsuko overseeing them under pretence of GEHIRN, Nerve and SEELE who in turn plots to make use of Rei, Kuwaro and Yui so as to unite all 3x entities Adam, Lilith and Eva as one perfect being, a new God.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Everything revolves around a trinity of 3x > Shinji, Gendo, Yui, - Gendo, Yui, Kozo - Misato, Kaji, Ritsiko - Kaji, Misato, Asuka - Maya, Makoto, Shigero - God, Angel, Lilim - 1st impact, 2nd imnpact, 3d impact > The list goes on...

Now, the difficult question I myself cannot answer - which 3x emotions needs to be addressed in order to reach perfection in the eyes of man? Or, to rephrase that rather, gain acceptance in the eyes of others, which in turn, knowing that's been achieved, grants satisfaction to oneself? (You see, we are back to one again, but wait, did it not start with one as well?...) tsk tsk tsk

* And just btw, it's quiet boring talking to myself all the time... *

Ashley_Pops · Post by **Ashley_Pops** » 24 May 2006, 11:57

It would be hard to talk about the emotion of it all. The plan of SEELE was to merge mankind into one perfect being right? So with one being, emotion wouldnt be a necessity. I could be completely wrong here but this is just my ideas. It would be hard to see the emotion from the main characters as we see them all going through a very wide array of emotions( some good, most bad). In terms of the 3x emotions to achieve perfection, we could easily give the whole love/happiness train of thought. The problem with that however is that that would be the 'perfect' ending' and this show has nothing to do with that. I know I'm kind of talking in circles but I'm just as confused about it as you are. But like you said there is no actual right or wrong answer it depends on your perception.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 28 May 2006, 18:39

I was wrong and none of you even corrected me...

Rei died 2x times, not 3x. In order for there to have been 3x clones 2x of 'em must have died. If all 3x have died then there would either be a 4th or no more Rei. The End Of Evangelion also shows all 3x incarnations of Rei in one scene. The dummy-plugs were soulless as decribed by Dr. Ritsiko Akagi before she destroyed them thus their deaths do not count.

I also made a complete fool of myself when trying to source The Revival Of Evangelion, so let me point it out -

Death And Rebirth and The End Of Evangelion was originally released as stand-alone volumes under same names. Just like the original TV show, they also got remastered some time later and were sold as a bundled version under the name The Revival Of Evangelion, a 2x disc set.

I've thus seen it already. So, those who said Eva has 3x endings please be kind enough and point it out to me. Episode 26 is a continuation of epsiode 25, ending 1. The End Of Evangelion is a continuation of Death And Rebirth, the complete ending of Evangelion, hence the name, ending 2.

Anyways, back to present -

Lilith/Rei/Kuwaro speaks many wise words in the process of Complementation towards the end. Seek your answers there...

Fokus on Rei, Shinji and Asuka. Though very diffirent as exact opposites, all 3x of them are running away from the same thing.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 29 May 2006, 19:56

Mmm...didnt Rei die after she created the Lillith egg and talked to shinji? You see her braeking apart.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 29 May 2006, 20:10

Good question...

But, was she still Rei? IMO she was completely Lilith.

When I get Death... and The End ... again shortly I'll give it another run-through and give it second thought.

Another thing I noticed as well is that in one of the Director's Cuts we see SEELE talking to Kuwaro and in that scene they tell him that Gendo is exactly like him for he merged with Adam. They thus knew it already. In the TV show that scene is cut and without seeing it, it was never made clear that SEELE was aware of this. The big question then -

Why did SEELE still send Kuwaro to look for Adam in Terminal Dogma whist knowing he would find Lilith there, not Adam?

I think GAINAX made a little booboo of note there...

For how else can it be explained? Kuwaro expected to see Adam yet he was told Adam already merged with Gendo? Why?

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 29 May 2006, 20:44

Was he really looking for adam or was he just doing what his destiny was?

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 29 May 2006, 21:15

Well, his destiny was to merge with Adam, thus initiating SEELE's interpretation of Third Impact, Human Instrumentality / Complementation.

That's the sole reason he was created by SEELE and send to Nerv.

Although I understand your question.

I know Kuwaro attempted to fulfill his destiny, as he told Shinji that it was his destiny to live forever. However, he also told Shinji that he think he may exist solely for the purpose of meeting him. (Doubt)

[Oops, did I just say the magic word...]

Kuwaro's purpose was to "Complement" the humans, Lilim by merging with Adam. Though, as we know, after coming to understand the reasoning for thier existance, he changed his mind.

His decision is explained in The End Of Eva. The following extract comes to mind -

Rei : "...Open your own future, create it."
Kuwaro : "Then humans can complement themselves..."

Still doesn't explain why he was looking for something he knew wasn't there.

Maybe he first gave his destiny a shot before changing his mind.

I don't know...

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 29 May 2006, 21:24

It also seems that kuwaru was the only angel with a will of his own, maybe that is why he could change his distiny.

jee · Post by **jee** » 29 May 2006, 21:25

I wonder what the series would be like had they not run into money problems.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 29 May 2006, 21:30

I think they just would have skipped the tv-series ending, going strait to the movie.

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 29 May 2006, 21:39

@ jee : Even more confuising I guess... Then again, just note how much anime was influenced by Eva as is.

@ Nuke : You've got a point there! Tell me though, do you think Kuwaro had a soul? Remember when he met Rei he told her they are alike. Kozo also notified Gendo that he came into contact with Rei, so it was a big thing. (Adam + Lilith = Complementation = bey bey mankind, bad news...)

Then again, maybe that's why that scene got cut in the first place...

I guess we'll never know.

I would also like to know your guys thoughts on the discussion between Dr. Ritsiko Akagi and Gendo Ikari before he shot her. You know, the missing speech part...

From what I gathered only two people in the world knows the answer to this mystery.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 29 May 2006, 21:57

I think every angel had a soul, but kuwaro was the only one with a spirit(consiousness, self awareness). He had the properties of a higher human.