the (mainly) non-Christians thread.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 08:15

Scientists, atheists, witches, wizards, goblins, teapots, hamsters and everyone else with a free thinking mind - this thread is for all of you!

I won't say which one of the above I am, because that's personal. So don't ask.

But let's talk about dinosaurs, rainbows, drugs and the earths atmosphere. And everything else that's exciting and fun.

I love thinking for myself and living my own life, how about you?

Yes, this is a response to the other, similarly-named, thread. To the mods - if the others can have their thread, then it would be prejudice to close this one and I will be offended. Even Christians can post here if they so wish.

eraser · Post by **eraser** » 19 May 2005, 08:30

Wat bout druids?
R they Welcome?

dammod · Post by **dammod** » 19 May 2005, 08:39

Nice thread Leigh

A bit of both worlds....

I as a Christian, believe that God had a very big role in who we are as humans today. Many people think about the "Big Bang" as the start of life and evolution as we know it. When somone mentions the "Big Bang" the first thought that comes to mind is...but what made the VERY FIRST "thing". What made the elements that combined to form the "Big Bang"???
Anyway, I am not one of those Christians who die when somone says damn. I have have respect for what other people believe (except when people start worshiping the sun! LOL! Or the trees or rocks and that stuff).

StarPhoenix · Post by **StarPhoenix** » 19 May 2005, 08:42

and Hobbitses?

On a more serious note.....I was waiting for this thread to begin......hopefully we can keep it civil.

Now where are Moses and 1g0r?

Belix · Post by **Belix** » 19 May 2005, 08:48

Somehow I feel at home here...

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 19 May 2005, 08:50

Leigh wrote:Scientists, atheists, witches, wizards, goblins, teapots, hamsters

I declare this thread cheesist... hamsters are clearly the enemy of cheese lovers everywhere....

<starts loading shells into the pump action, puts his hunting cap on and hunkers down>

gonna...get me a wascally hamster Billy Bob...

Post by **Anakha56** » 19 May 2005, 08:50

dammod wrote:Nice thread Leigh A bit of both worlds....

I as a Christian, believe that God had a very big role in who we are as humans today. Many people think about the "Big Bang" as the start of life and evolution as we know it. When somone mentions the "Big Bang" the first thought that comes to mind is...but what made the VERY FIRST "thing". What made the elements that combined to form the "Big Bang"???
Anyway, I am not one of those Christians who die when somone says damn. I have have respect for what other people believe (except when people start worshiping the sun! LOL! Or the trees or rocks and that stuff).

errr whats wrong with that?

if u look back in history the very 1st believe's centered on the sun, wind, earth, water and fire why? because ppl were in awe of it when they understood it the belief changed to actual deity's, or the change occured when a bigger civi killed off the smaller sorta like how egypt lost there belief because they were told u either against us or with us...so who did they choose?

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 19 May 2005, 09:01

dammod wrote:Many people think about the "Big Bang" as the start of life and evolution as we know it. When somone mentions the "Big Bang" the first thought that comes to mind is...but what made the VERY FIRST "thing". What made the elements that combined to form the "Big Bang"???

A fair question.... one possible answer is... ever seen soap bubbles form...

The idea is that our universe is an offshoot of another. Imagine that once a universe reaches a particular size and density that the speed at which it is expanding produces "weak spots" in the very fabric of space, (black hole anyone?). This spot would act as the point of creation of another universe, creating an expansion effect VERY similiar to an explosion. The practical upshot of this theory is that it explains both the expansion evident in our universe, while resolving some of the more troublesome glitches in the big bang theory, (why is the expansion not constant, why is space curved, where did all this matter come from, etc..etc..).

Post by **Scarlet_Spider** » 19 May 2005, 09:05

supertwit wrote:...hopefully we can keep it civil.

Hopefully...

Belix · Post by **Belix** » 19 May 2005, 09:12

dammod wrote:Nice thread Leigh A bit of both worlds....

I as a Christian, believe that God had a very big role in who we are as humans today. Many people think about the "Big Bang" as the start of life and evolution as we know it. When somone mentions the "Big Bang" the first thought that comes to mind is...but what made the VERY FIRST "thing". What made the elements that combined to form the "Big Bang"???
Anyway, I am not one of those Christians who die when somone says damn. I have have respect for what other people believe (except when people start worshiping the sun! LOL! Or the trees or rocks and that stuff).

What made the very first thing? Well you can say the same thing about God. Who/what made God? If you say He's just always been there, then, hey, the very first big bang was just always there too.
As for the rocks and trees, at least you can see they exist...perhaps the environment would be a little better if people worshipped the earth.

dammod · Post by **dammod** » 19 May 2005, 09:38

True, but you for scientists, nothing was "Just always there". God has always been there. It says so (or somthing to that effect) in the Bible.

rustypup, I know this is going to sound childish and like I am going on about it but, you talk about out universe being an "off-shoot" to another. But what made the universe that ours "shot off" from?

There has to be a VERY FIRST thing. Lets call it "Element X". Some how even Element X had to form.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 09:40

Of course Druids, hobbits, Balrogs, toasters, chopsticks and all others are welcome to join in the fun

And rustypup - I am sorry, I never meant to be cheesist. The hamsters can be fed on seeds instead. Hopefully that will appease you.

Interesting that dammod mentioned sun worship. Historically, the sun was the first thing, along with the sky and water (and later the earth), that early man revered, and sun gods are abundant in ancient religions - the Egyptian Amon and Ra and the Greek Apollo being three of the most well known (but there are many others, especially from the middle east region) and I am sure you've all heard their names before. Other earth, sun and sky related gods from Egypt include Amon-Ra (created from Amon and Ra), Sekbeth, Khensu, Nut, Geb (one of the earliest ones), Seb, and Hathor. Now the Egyptians were a very advanced race for their time, so their religion is nothing to be laughed at.

Following that, nature religions developed - so some respect and understanding should be given to them since they predate all modern religions by a wide margin. Whether you believe in them or not, surely you can find some interest or respect for them? Names like Baal, Baphomet, Pan, and a host of others, are all associated with nature-based religious systems, although unfortunately the god of the Old Testament in the Christian bible insisted that worship of these old Gods should cease, and many people began turned to a new path.

And on a side note here, a wonderful book called "The History of God" by Karen Armstrong is a tome of fascinating accounts and insight that I would highly recommend to anyone who is interested in studying the early formation of religion as we know it.

It is also unfortunate that this mass coercion into following a new faith caused a demonisation of these old Gods as well, which is why many hardcore Christians will probably recognise those names as being those of demons, instead of natural deities. This is a shame because historically these figures had little to do with evil.

So as one of the oldest surviving religions, I personally have nothing but the greatest respect for followers of these faiths. Nature is beautiful and I see no problem in reverence of it.

I'd love to stay and chat but it's past my bedtime! I look forward to some stimulating conversation in the morning.

And let's keep it civil please folks!

capanno · Post by **capanno** » 19 May 2005, 09:46

Interesting that you included 'Scientists' in your first post! Just over 50% of scientists in the US believe in evolution, or let me put it this way, just under 50% believe in creation.

About those nature lovers and tree huggers: Its interesting to me what they do and where they draw the line. Some will say, TREES HAVE RIGHTS!!! Well thats wierd. Where do you draw the line? Maybe oxygen molocules have rights aswell. Then we should all quit breathing.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 09:50

One more post before I go to bed: personally I do get saddened by the destruction of trees. Especially the really ancient ones. I am not a hippy type person at all but I love nature and the beauty of trees, mountains, rivers, etc.

However, I think that a lot of activists are not just campaigning for religious reasons (actually, I think very few tree huggers even follow Pagan religions), but for environmental reasons. Do you remember learning about photosynthesis in school? Trees are natural oxygen recyclers. They are kinda important

So your mentioning of oxygen molecules is kinda ironic!

And as for my mention of scientists... it wasn't only a religious reference thing. I like talking about science. Although admittedly I do prefer talking about geography and history. And in terms of a religious reference, I was referring to people who only believe in science, and do not believe in anything that cannot be proven. Not people who are scientists as a profession

dammod · Post by **dammod** » 19 May 2005, 09:57

I have LOTS of respect for the Ancient Egyptians and their ways of life.

But I meant those freaky people who smoke tea bags and banana peels, walk around forests naked and scream at the mountains

capanno · Post by **capanno** » 19 May 2005, 09:58

I was just kidding with you!

I myself am against people unearthing trees for the 'root of all evil', money, or for no reason. It makes me angry. God gave us the command to rule over the earth. Right now I dont think were doing such a great job...
Trees are very important to our health, given that oxygen gives us over 90% of what our bodies need to stay alive. OK I think this is not what this thread is about! On topic again! So, um, how many hamsters do you ppl have?

@dammod: LOL!!!

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 09:59

Well, if it makes them happy and they aren't harming anyone by doing so... then kudos to them. Finding happiness is something that not everyone achieves in their lives, so if someone finds joy in smoking teabags and running around in the buff, then I say good for them.

I'll keep my own clothes on and stick to rasperry Snapple though, thanks.

And now I really am going to bed.

dammod · Post by **dammod** » 19 May 2005, 09:59

Leigh wrote:and I do not believe in anything that cannot be proven.

Like the "Big Bang"? And that the universe has no boundries?

qwiksilva666 · Post by **qwiksilva666** » 19 May 2005, 09:59

**** its about time a thread like this came up......thanks leigh. im athiest through and through....but i found a pretty intersting site if ne1 wants ta chek it out........heres the link.

and dont tune me im a stanist for this coz i dont believe in that ****** either....

Removed by Scarlet: Qwiksilva666 dont test me...

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 19 May 2005, 10:11

dammod wrote:There has to be a VERY FIRST thing. Lets call it "Element X". Some how even Element X had to form.

In the beginning... there was CHEESE!

What's all this element X nonsense.... ?

Hmm.. no ... that's actually a good question, and I have no idea. It's just a theory that explains the observable evidence... remember that a great deal of what is theorized is based on results observed, not much else...

Check out the running gag that was Phlogiston to get some idea of how wrong this can be....

The point is that when it is applied, we get some idea of how the universe is cobbled together, and why certain processes happen the way they do... It may be all a bunch of curdled custard, but until they prove it wrong........

Post by **Anakha56** » 19 May 2005, 10:12

qwiksilva666 wrote:**** its about time a thread like this came up......thanks leigh. im athiest through and through....but i found a pretty intersting site if ne1 wants ta chek it out........heres the link.

and dont tune me im a stanist for this coz i dont believe in that **** either....

Removed by Scarlet: Qwiksilva666 dont test me...

errrr WOW! 8O i am going to read that site just see both sides of the proverbial fence but my word posting that site took a lot of guts...scarlet well done on the removely...

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 10:22

dammod wrote:
Leigh wrote:and I do not believe in anything that cannot be proven.
Like the "Big Bang"? And that the universe has no boundries?

Why did you add an "I" into that quote? I didn't say that. Also, the Big Bang is still just a theory - there has never been anything to prove it, hence it's remaining status as a theory. As for the universe having no boundaries, well personally that is a theory that I do subscribe to. I don't see how space can have boundaries. But that's just me.

qwiksilva666 - what site was that? I am really curious now. If you want, you can PM it to me. I like reading stuff, even if it's a bunch of crap.

And now I really, really, really am going to bed.

capanno · Post by **capanno** » 19 May 2005, 10:24

LEIGH you gonna get yourself fired!

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » 19 May 2005, 10:24

Nah, as long as I get to work by 10am I'll be fine

Oops I posted again.

qwiksilva666 · Post by **qwiksilva666** » 19 May 2005, 10:26

most sincere appologies scarlet.....wont put those sites up....so.sorry, and sorry to ne1 else whom i offended.....

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