Your thoughts on this country

Post by **Tel** » 21 Nov 2005, 08:42

Just a note. When ppl leave a country it's called emigration, not immigration.

South Africa is a country with so much oppotunity, that it is worth staying. Even if you're a young white male. Even with crime, unemployment and bad governmental decisions, all I've heard a lot of ppl say is that SA is the best.

A lot of South Africans and foreigners that have seen the otherside of the river come back here as the grass wasn't greener on the otherside. Sure, I've thought of emigrating, but I am a South African. And I want this country to be great, so I'm gonna stay and fight it out.

There are so many things that we take for granted in this country. We just haven't opened our eyes to them yet. Yes, I'm guilty of that too. The country itself is beautiful, the ppl are beautiful, and we're mostly out of the limelight when it comes to international affairs (US and UK against Iraq [All northern hemisphere

]).

I'd have to say that one of the setbacks of our country is the government. So many wrong decisions in recent years. Changing of the schooling system the biggest. The way children are learning at school now, just doesn't teach them anything about failure and proper testing. It's stupid and the kids will be stupid too, just like current US and UK kids.

Also AA and BEE are right in a sense, but they are literally crippling the country, imo, as they are implementing it too quickly. Too many inexperienced, inefficient ppl being put into high-powered jobs. Now I'm not saying all because there are definitely the good, hard-working, clever ppl, but the government and companies should start hiring on merit now, not the colour of your skin.

Post by **Anakha56** » 21 Nov 2005, 08:45

well said Tel. (not used to calling you Tel

)

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 21 Nov 2005, 08:50

<dee-dee voice>
oohhh.....button!
</dee-dee voice>

I have a number of theories and comments I would just *love* to raise, but can't right now... (will probably lose interest later), but for all those speaking out in favour of AA + BEE consider:

The man who must work to put a roof over his head lends said roof greater value than he who doesn't. Should he lend greater value to that roof, he would also display greater tenacity and invention should his ownership of said roof be called to question. To the point that, if needs be, he would in all likliehood start his own business to ensure said ownership. In doing so, he would be affording others the chance ond oppurtunity to acquire the skills and industry acumen necessary for a flourishing economy....

The point I'm making is that the "simply give them what they want.." approach to governance does more harm than good... by doing so you are removing the imperatives and drives that have seen the development of successfull democracies and economies elsewhere... Note that I say elsewhere, as we most certainly do NOT live in a democratic country... a democracy which allows "floor crossing" is not a democracy... in point of fact, by permitting this sort of behaviour, we have allowed ourselves to truly become a one party state... your vote essentially serves no purpose... it has followed your elected official across the floor into the oppostion's camp...

Any government which uses money/property to buy votes should be viewed as having lost the plot altogether... especially if they believe in what they are doing, (Aside: Last night there was just such a case being discussed in the EC where levies were magically being "refunded"...)

As bad as the historical injustices were, they will be as nothing compared to a failed economy... one which your elected officials will only hasten in their bid for self-perpetuation....

I love this country... I love the people.... I love the constant arguments and the wide range of opinions... I have zero tolerance for the self-serving morons who have managed to infect every tier of the political edifice and continue to spread the disease of stupid, selfish and short-sighted legislation.... so call me a political racist - i strongly dislike politicians.... (not all, but most.... )

qwiksilva666 · Post by **qwiksilva666** » 21 Nov 2005, 09:11

SA is the best man...just everything about it is unique...our way...our culture..our ppl...

and if green was legal here................

QBM · Post by **QBM** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:16

I give you less than 20 years to the next "revolution". The winners should be obvious as should the result. Could surprise me and result in the slow fizzle which seems so likely. Either way good luck with that...............

brabham · Post by **brabham** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:34

Thanks for a great read everyone who posted. The argument for and against AA and BEE in SA has been stated adequately. I will not make any further points. Suffice to say the the point made by jamin_za is one that is both sad and true.

jamin_za wrote:Not addressing the wrongs of the past and marginalising the vast majority of people in this country is recipe for genocide.
Remember Rwanda?
It's a catch 22 situatiuon - damned if you do and damned if you dont.

For the record I am a coloured male.

Post by **Y0da** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:38

Bah, I'm happy to be here and I'm proudly South African. Yes we have all the bad things already mentioned. But so does the other countries. The USA has the Mexicans, Australia has the Abborichonies (horrid spelling), Israel has the Palestinians, Palestine has the Isrealites, and Germany has ugly women that never shaves and inist on being called Olga. So no matter where you end up you will run into problems sooner or later. Better the devil that you know than the one you don't. Besides, with my luck I will emigrate and get run over by a truck or something...

QBM · Post by **QBM** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:42

Y0da wrote: The USA has the Mexicans,

Elaborate please???.........

qwiksilva666 · Post by **qwiksilva666** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:50

QBM wrote:
Y0da wrote: The USA has the Mexicans,
Elaborate please???.........

i think yoda was making a comical point and generalising...hence "germany etc hairy ect shave"

QBM · Post by **QBM** » 21 Nov 2005, 10:55

qwiksilva666 wrote:
QBM wrote:
Y0da wrote: The USA has the Mexicans,
Elaborate please???.........
i think yoda was making a comical point and generalising...hence "germany etc hairy ect shave"

Yeah I got that bit......however the spectrum is a bit wide. There are legetimate gripes in there, misconceptions, etc.........

To dismiss SA's problems on that basis is logically faulty.

For the record Americans in general have no problem with Mexicans. Illegals????? Different story..........

Imagine millions of undocumented Americans entering your country willing to do your job for a quarter of prevailing wage. Then imagine said Americans living off your social programs because they don't make enough money (imagine that) while significantly contributing to the crime rate...................

Post by **Y0da** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:16

QBM wrote:For the record Americans in general have no problem with Mexicans. Illegals????? Different story..........

I respectfully beg to differ. I lived and worked in Phoenix, AZ for an extended period. The majority of the people I met there had nothing good to say about their Spanish neighbours. They percieve them as a threat because they tend to live off welfare and get special priviliges from the government that the normal citizens don't have access to (reduced bonds, loans etc.) Not all share this point of view but i met some pretty bitter folks over there. Same issue different name.

iREADyourEMAIL · Post by **iREADyourEMAIL** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:18

hmmmmmm....interesting!

Ark · Post by **Ark** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:20

I usually avoid threads like this, but I can't ignore this one.

Please understand that I'm not a racist, but a realist.

They say that South Africa is alive with change. They say that South Africa has a bright future. I disagree with those statements. South Africa is going in the same direction the rest of Africa went. The apartheid era is coming back, only this time the whites are in the $hit.

The way I see it, they (the government) are trying to get rid of us (white people). Farm attacks are so common, that you don't even hear about it on the news anymore. I've heard something about a new law which limits farmers from their fire-arms. (my grammar sucks, I know) The only only reason the death sentence was taken away, is because most of the ANC would be dead right now. Anyway, back on topic: I read in the newspaper that two black men broke into a 71 year old woman's house to see what valubals they could steal. The one found the other on top of the old woman and asked him what he was doing. The responce was "I'm raping her because she is white" How sick can you get? This is the lowest I've ever heard of.

Right, this country is going to hell. My mother says that if the whites never came to Africa, they wouldn't even have known the wheel yet. If I was black, I would have been very thankfull for the white people.

As I was saying, this country's future is as grimm as Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. As long as there still are white people left here, this country is okay. I'm really sorry to say this. I apologize if I'm offending anyone here, but I need to say this.
BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY . Look at the rest of Africa. South Africa will soon have a taste of poverty.

If this came off as racistic, then I apologise.

iREADyourEMAIL · Post by **iREADyourEMAIL** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:43

Arkonin wrote: BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY[/b.

i agree
i am not bieng a racisist
it is that i have noticed -i was in a school called st.peters, it was a lilly white school-then due to transport i moved to a school closer to my house,
my first day i noticed that blacks wernt as smart as us.....i let it off as a bad first impression
but now i see it everyday.....

I AM NOT BIENG RACIST

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:45

Arkonin wrote:BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY

and since when has IQ been the only requirement.... ?

SA would have the brightest of futures if our government would sit back and think for 5 seconds that their bleeding-heart approach is not going to solve anything, only compound the mistakes....

Crime is what it is because the ultimate deterrent was done away with... for whatever reason...

the law only works if people obey it... else its existence is apocryphal at best.... yes, the death penalty flies in the face of the human rights charter, but as a consequence of this, they have turned 10 legally sanctioned deaths a year into the wholesale slaughter of the innocent... a man who fears death will think twice about being the cause of death...

the blinkered application of the HRC has caused more death than would have been evident without it....

what truly amazes is that joe blogs in the street can be shot in front of a police station, only to watch the perpetrator being let off on a technicality, while if the same were to happen to a public figure or politician we would never hear the end of it... this duality of standards in law will be the downfall of a legal system which is already equivalent to a muzzled poodle...

I would be interested in seeing you post some form of evidence in support of your prior statements, if only to get you to do some research and apply a healthy dose of reasoning

Kher-za · Post by **Kher-za** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:47

i dont have a problem with this country but i do think that society is up a creek without a paddle.

iviva la revolution of of the free!

Android · Post by **Android** » 21 Nov 2005, 11:55

Arkonin wrote:I usually avoid threads like this, but I can't ignore this one.

Please understand that I'm not a racist, but a realist.

They say that South Africa is alive with change. They say that South Africa has a bright future. I disagree with those statements. South Africa is going in the same direction the rest of Africa went. The apartheid era is coming back, only this time the whites are in the $hit.

The way I see it, they (the government) are trying to get rid of us (white people). Farm attacks are so common, that you don't even hear about it on the news anymore. I've heard something about a new law which limits farmers from their fire-arms. (my grammar sucks, I know) The only only reason the death sentence was taken away, is because most of the ANC would be dead right now. Anyway, back on topic: I read in the newspaper that two black men broke into a 71 year old woman's house to see what valubals they could steal. The one found the other on top of the old woman and asked him what he was doing. The responce was "I'm raping her because she is white" How sick can you get? This is the lowest I've ever heard of.

Right, this country is going to hell. My mother says that if the whites never came to Africa, they wouldn't even have known the wheel yet. If I was black, I would have been very thankfull for the white people.

As I was saying, this country's future is as grimm as Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. As long as there still are white people left here, this country is okay. I'm really sorry to say this. I apologize if I'm offending anyone here, but I need to say this.
BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY . Look at the rest of Africa. South Africa will soon have a taste of poverty.

If this came off as racistic, then I apologise.

It's the mentality of people like you and other poster on the thread, who don't have a freakin clue as to what life is about or the hardships that other people go thru on a daily bases. Let me put a question to you (or all)
We all Bit3h and moan about how k*k our country is, but yet the ones who are bitching are the ones with internet accesses, a job, a supporting family, a house, food, a freakin future. Ungrateful bunch of sods. Thing that pisses me off the most is people complaining about their neighbors playing music to late at night because they want to study, what about the little 10year old on the street with no parents, no food, no place to stay, no internet access, no chance to study. Who'll hear the ten year old cry or complain?? no one

Macphisto · Post by **Macphisto** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:03

Arkonin wrote:I usually avoid threads like this, but I can't ignore this one.

Please understand that I'm not a racist, but a realist.

They say that South Africa is alive with change. They say that South Africa has a bright future. I disagree with those statements. South Africa is going in the same direction the rest of Africa went. The apartheid era is coming back, only this time the whites are in the $hit.

The way I see it, they (the government) are trying to get rid of us (white people). Farm attacks are so common, that you don't even hear about it on the news anymore. I've heard something about a new law which limits farmers from their fire-arms. (my grammar sucks, I know) The only only reason the death sentence was taken away, is because most of the ANC would be dead right now. Anyway, back on topic: I read in the newspaper that two black men broke into a 71 year old woman's house to see what valubals they could steal. The one found the other on top of the old woman and asked him what he was doing. The responce was "I'm raping her because she is white" How sick can you get? This is the lowest I've ever heard of.

Right, this country is going to hell. My mother says that if the whites never came to Africa, they wouldn't even have known the wheel yet. If I was black, I would have been very thankfull for the white people.

As I was saying, this country's future is as grimm as Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. As long as there still are white people left here, this country is okay. I'm really sorry to say this. I apologize if I'm offending anyone here, but I need to say this.
BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY . Look at the rest of Africa. South Africa will soon have a taste of poverty.

If this came off as racistic, then I apologise.

It took balls to post that mate, yet it is the truth and you are in my opinion correct. Well done for standing up and stating it how it realy is. The truth of the matter is that people for europe have created all that we have and when they arrived in Africa black did not have a written language, thus no records of their past was kept, they had no advanced form of transport as they had not yet discovered the wheel, they could only count to ten and their social structure and customs were primitive and undeveloped. Black people cannot say that they are previously disadvantaged as they have only gained from us. Thanks to whites they have education, healthcare and many other institutions that they themselves never developed.

The reason why this country is going down is because you cannot expect a nation of people who have not evolved to our level to be able to function as we do. Everything they know is what we have taught them and they have contributed nothing themselves. I am also not a racist and I get along well with black people, I respect them and live peacefully among them. The apartheid system was cruel and unnecessary. However, you cannot blame the old government completely, at least the country prosperred during it. Now we have corruption scandals left, right and centre, the highest rape statistic in the world with our murder rate being among the highest, a weak economy and a clown for a neighbour (I like Mugabe, he makes me laugh the way no-one can).

Anyway, I'm planning to bail this country when I get my degree. There is no future for whites here.

Macphisto · Post by **Macphisto** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:08

Android wrote:
Arkonin wrote:I usually avoid threads like this, but I can't ignore this one.

Please understand that I'm not a racist, but a realist.

They say that South Africa is alive with change. They say that South Africa has a bright future. I disagree with those statements. South Africa is going in the same direction the rest of Africa went. The apartheid era is coming back, only this time the whites are in the $hit.

The way I see it, they (the government) are trying to get rid of us (white people). Farm attacks are so common, that you don't even hear about it on the news anymore. I've heard something about a new law which limits farmers from their fire-arms. (my grammar sucks, I know) The only only reason the death sentence was taken away, is because most of the ANC would be dead right now. Anyway, back on topic: I read in the newspaper that two black men broke into a 71 year old woman's house to see what valubals they could steal. The one found the other on top of the old woman and asked him what he was doing. The responce was "I'm raping her because she is white" How sick can you get? This is the lowest I've ever heard of.

Right, this country is going to hell. My mother says that if the whites never came to Africa, they wouldn't even have known the wheel yet. If I was black, I would have been very thankfull for the white people.

As I was saying, this country's future is as grimm as Zimbabwe and the rest of Africa. As long as there still are white people left here, this country is okay. I'm really sorry to say this. I apologize if I'm offending anyone here, but I need to say this.
BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY . Look at the rest of Africa. South Africa will soon have a taste of poverty.

If this came off as racistic, then I apologise.
It's the mentality of people like you and other poster on the thread, who don't have a freakin clue as to what life is about or the hardships that other people go thru on a daily bases. Let me put a question to you (or all)
We all Bit3h and moan about how k*k our country is, but yet the ones who are bitching are the ones with internet accesses, a job, a supporting family, a house, food, a freakin future. Ungrateful bunch of sods. Thing that pisses me off the most is people complaining about their neighbors playing music to late at night because they want to study, what about the little 10year old on the street with no parents, no food, no place to stay, no internet access, no chance to study. Who'll hear the ten year old cry or complain?? no one

You are deranged my friend. They homeless child problem is not our problem, we pay taxes and the government is supposed to use this money to alleviate the situation whereas instead it misuses this money and the problem, and many other problems continue to exist. Also, if the parents of these children cannot think and control themselves and not breed like rabbits then what? Are we supposed to castrate everyone. The problem is caused by them, and they suffer as a result of the government that they voted for that does not tend to their needs.

What do you have to say to that? If you are so concerned give them everthing you have. If not, shut up.

Macphisto · Post by **Macphisto** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:12

rustypup wrote:
Arkonin wrote:BLACK PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THE I.Q NEEDED TO RUN A COUNTRY

and since when has IQ been the only requirement.... ?

SA would have the brightest of futures if our government would sit back and think for 5 seconds that their bleeding-heart approach is not going to solve anything, only compound the mistakes....

Crime is what it is because the ultimate deterrent was done away with... for whatever reason...

the law only works if people obey it... else its existence is apocryphal at best.... yes, the death penalty flies in the face of the human rights charter, but as a consequence of this, they have turned 10 legally sanctioned deaths a year into the wholesale slaughter of the innocent... a man who fears death will think twice about being the cause of death...

the blinkered application of the HRC has caused more death than would have been evident without it....

what truly amazes is that joe blogs in the street can be shot in front of a police station, only to watch the perpetrator being let off on a technicality, while if the same were to happen to a public figure or politician we would never hear the end of it... this duality of standards in law will be the downfall of a legal system which is already equivalent to a muzzled poodle...

The death penalty was abolished for good reason. Firstly, it was proven that it does not function as a deterent and secondly because it is cruel and unusual. So get your facts straight.

Android · Post by **Android** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:32

1G0R wrote: You are deranged my friend. yes my psychologist says the same thing! They homeless child problem is not our problem of cause not it's not you on the street, we pay taxes and the government is supposed to use this money to alleviate the situation whereas instead it misuses this money and the problem, and many other problems continue to exist. Also, if the parents of these children cannot think and control themselves and not breed like rabbits then what? as to what people are you referring to? blacks? I never said the 10 year was black or white, would it make a difference? Are we supposed to castrate everyone. The problem is caused by them, and they suffer as a result of the government that they voted for that does not tend to their needs. Oh yes it's the little 10 year olds fault his parents suck, what a big man you are
What do you have to say to that?alot If you are so concerned give them everthing you have. If not, shut up why would i shut up because you said so? please[/u]

DcrawlerZ · Post by **DcrawlerZ** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:39

typical south african reactions always blaming others for our own problems. As long as we are unable to look for the problem in our mids then there wont be a solution. Stop acusing others and work together to make this a better place.

Post by **Y0da** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:42

I would like some proof as to the influence of one's skin colour on one's IQ. No really, humour me.

rustypup · Post by **rustypup** » 21 Nov 2005, 12:59

for future reference, please only quote the point you are countering... it keeps things readable... 20 pages of quotes is just irritating....

1G0R wrote:The death penalty was abolished for good reason.

one would hope so.... else it was done for a *bad* reason which doesn't bare thinking about....

1G0R wrote:Firstly, it was proven that it does not function as a deterent

i believe that this would be the same sort of "proof" on which revisionist arguments are based, namely say-so and creative liberalism along with a light dusting of experimentation.... possibly a little logic as well, but there again not too much as to appear to be actually thought out...

(the hidden question here is "how was it proved")

1G0R wrote:and secondly because it is cruel and unusual.

yup.... cruel and unusual.. kind of like being raped in your own home only to watch the criminal walk off scott free 'cause the prisons are a little crowded... or being tied up, forced to watch a family member being raped/sodomised, then being shot in the stomach and left for dead while they make off with your car...?? yes... there is something cruel and unusual about putting someone to death in a controlled and sanitary manner

1G0R wrote: So get your facts straight.

sorry... the number you have dialed does not exist... please try again later...

this is not a debating point... this is like jumping up and down screaming STFU! STFU! at a clan gathering... not quite as defensible as you would think....

Post by **neon_chameleon** » 21 Nov 2005, 13:14

Y0da wrote:I would like some proof as to the influence of one's skin colour on one's IQ. No really, humour me.

Everybody knows people with 900 year old green skinned are the wisest.

And then there's the ones with will.

Clowns have the lowest.

BTW, nice post rusty.