Elfen Lied

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 12 Apr 2006, 21:11

Shyte Nuke they got a lot of new stuff.

More Burst Angel, Scrapped Princess, Tenjho, FMA etc and also one of your favs Madlax.

Man I also wished I had more cash to spare this month...

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 12 Apr 2006, 21:18

I have my eye on
Madlax (Volume 4)
Madlax (Volume 5)
Elfen Lied (Volume 4)
Tenjho Tenge (Volume 2)
Tenjho Tenge (Volume 3)
and maybe GITS movie

also one day noir boxset.

I want to buy the first dvd of tenjho with the box from anime worx

how many on the elfen dvds do you still need?

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 12 Apr 2006, 21:24

Vector 3 and 4.

But I am getting the Chrno boxset first.

And yeah these Tenjho boxshots are nice hey. Though I don't really mind, normally pouch it anyways.

Since my End Of Eva box got teared badly after it circulated a few mates and family I decided I will either not be lending out my originals anymore or I'll just live without them.

I had to choose tha latter though because my mom was begging me for more stuff after she watched Elfen. She's now busy with Chrno.

Edit : I meant to say Tenjho no Elfen.

Zell · Post by **Zell** » 07 May 2006, 22:26

Eish, just watched the OVA.
I truly would have preferred to have watched it after episode 10, and not after I had already finished the series.

<SPOILERS>

Rayne, you say that the girl in the apartment was Lucy and that there is no indication she was captured... Well she couldn't have been captured.
Anyways, I thought that they were just showing how they were hunting down 2nd generation dicloniuses, and bam, she killed the policemen, but she got shot and died. Same with the girl who infected Kurama, she was a different diclonius.

Also, in the warehouse, Lucy says "I don't know this kind of medicine" as she has no way of healing her friend. So yeah, I am not sure about her being able to heal herself. Remember when her horn got broken off? She cried, and dayum son, there was no way for her to heal herself.

I'd also like to know about your interpretation for why the director general and his son had horns.

There was something else important I had in mind, but I truly forgot it. Hopefully I wil;l remember tomorrow.

Anthropoid21 · Post by **Anthropoid21** » 07 May 2006, 22:34

Rayne wrote:Shyte Nuke they got a lot of new stuff.

More Burst Angel, Scrapped Princess, Tenjho, FMA etc and also one of your favs Madlax.

Man I also wished I had more cash to spare this month...

How much is the stuff you want to buy ?

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 08 May 2006, 05:44

I think he already bought his stuff didn't he? He got the Eva and Hellsing Boxsets if not mistaken...

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 08 May 2006, 09:41

Anthropoid21 you can check the prices over at www.animedirect.co.za

I didn't buy any of those. Tenjho and FMA will most probably take a year and more before the sets are complete for purchase anyway.

@ Zell :

I think you've got a bad sub bru, 'coz I don't remember Lucy saying that. Or I have a bad sub...

Are you talking about what she said when she fell to her knees and cried when her friend got shot? Well, I'm not in front of my pc now but from what I can remember before they were found Lucy tried to cheer-up her friend by making all the teddy-bears float in mid-air using her vectors. To her un-knowing friend who watched in amazement she said ..."I'm a magician. There's nothing I can't do"... As I said she just said that to cheer her up. After her friend got shot Lucy cried and said "I will... I will save you! ... What's wrong with this magician?! ...I can't even save the life of this girl in front of me!"...

And Lucy was a first generation Diclunius. The only one outside captivity, there was no other. The rest were bred labrats. The girl in the apartment was her.

Btw all Diclonius' could heal themselves. They shot them with canonballs for crying out loud. By saying this I don't imply they can achieve the impossible, I'm merely saying their healing method / rate is faster and more advanced than a normal human's. - ..."The Diclonius blood is thick."...

Lastly, the director general and his son had horns because they must have infected themselves with the Diclonius virus. Lucy, Nana and Mariko by exapmle were born Diclonius, their parents must have been infected, but the director and his son were merely experementing with the mutation, that's why they did not have vectors. Apart from their small odd looking horns they were very much still human. That's why his son tried to rape Lucy, 'coz he wanted to breed a pure Diclonius offspring.

Now on a diffirent note, who do you guys think had it the worst, Lucy or Nana? Think carefully, which is worse, emotional abuse or physical pain and suffering?

Also, you guys are aware that Lucy wanted Kouta to kill her right? Which, he declined to do twice - ..."I will surely again regret it."... Do you guys think, have he adhered to her request, doing that would have made a better ending or not?

Do you guys think Kouta loved Lucy? Hehee... How / why do you think she ended up on the bridge all alone with Kouta nowhere around?

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 08 May 2006, 10:01

OMW, why did I have to have watched so many different anime until now...

I think I must go and watch this again so I can also get into this deep discussion session...
I am aware of Lucy wanting Kouta to kill her and the fact that the Gen and his son were only infected by the virus, but as for all other I am only vague...

Ok concerning the abuse: Nana underwent the physical abuse right? And emotional abuse, are you reffering to Lucy's young childhood?

Forgive me for asking probably stupid questions to you, but only watched this once and quite a while back...

Zell · Post by **Zell** » 08 May 2006, 19:38

Hmm... Lucy and Nana...
I think Nana had it really rough, but lucy had it rough to the point where she "went mad".
Lucy did have emotional abuse... plenty of it.
The physical abuse wasn't such an issue to her, because her wanting to apologise to Kouta kept her strong.

Nana had the physical abuse, which is more emotional (rape) abuse than physical, but she seemed to handle it okay.

Lucy was betrayed... Lucy was condemned... Lucy was tortured.
I definitely think Lucy had it worse off.
Your guys thoughts on this?

EDIT: Confused nana (seven) with the other girl... :/

Nana had "father"... but yeah, she endured alot and would have died were it not for his "support". I suppose Lucy also took alot of testing, and her will to apologise to Kouta kept her strong. Lucy had the emotional pain in addition, so she definitely had it worse off than Nana. And Nana had a happy ending.

My sub says "What magic? I can't even save the life in front of me!"
It makes more sense, cause when she made the bears float, she said its magic and "theres nothing I can't do"... She said what magic, meaning she couldnt heal her friend... meaning there is no magic.

I am now not sure about the girl in the apartment. It could be Lucy, but that would be vague, and this series is no Evangelion.
I still rate it was another Diclonius, but I will watch the series again, then pass judgement.

About Kouta having to kill Lucy... that wouldn't have made a better ending.
I think that he never had any intention of doing that, no matter what Lucy did. Lucy on the other hand, counted on that request.
Kouta still loved "Nyuu and the past you", but that really means he loves Lucy, but not the monster within her that massacres people.
But having been through alot, he is very understainding of other people's pain. He saw the beautiful, tortured person within Lucy.

In the end Lucy killed herself by not resisting all those bullets oin the bridge. And yeah, that was Lucy's ghost at the doorway.

BTW, when they adopted that girl, and her mother easily signed those papers, they were confused.
I rate her mother divorced the guy in the end, and knew about the rape, and she felt so guilty, that she had no choice but to sign those papers.
What do you guys think of this?

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 08 May 2006, 22:10

Sorry for the late reply OTC but I'm downloading a torrent, not much bandwidth left for anything else. I basically just want to hear a few thoughts on what you oke's think of the scenario from what we've all seen in the series.

Anyway, I will have to make time and watch this again myself.

Zell, you konw you now have me second-guessing myself... I hate you bru...

/ I'll continue this later. I'm gonna sleep early tonight.

Zell · Post by **Zell** » 08 May 2006, 22:10

heheheeeee...

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 09 May 2006, 05:07

But isn't this what makes it so good... I mean sure we might be confusing each other, but then, when we all agree on something, it makes all that worth it...

I think this weekend will be my Elfen weekend... Then I will have a bit of an indeoth look...

jee · Post by **jee** » 09 May 2006, 06:37

somehow Nana touched me more than Lucy... Nana has an innocence about her that makes her more vulnerable...

Zell · Post by **Zell** » 09 May 2006, 07:03

Very true on the innocence part...

I guess maybe the fact that Lucy wasn't allowed that innocence, or had that innocence taken from her, is what touched me the most.

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 09 May 2006, 09:24

Also the thing bout Lucy, as Lady Jee mentions bout Nana, is that we are - however we can probably imagine something - unaware of what Lucy went through prior to being locked up... Being locked up, I don't think she could have been 'controlled' like Mariko so she was just 'put away into storage'...

Nana on the otherhand, underwhent physical abuse in the attempt to find out the working of the Diclonius... Even though she had 'father' to support her, I think the only thing he managed to do was keep Nana from becoming like Lucy... That in it's own does not seem like much 'support' to me though...

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 09 May 2006, 10:05

Coming back to episode 10 - Suckling / Infant...

Thinking again I'll say that is just another Diclonius or it is number 3. She looks about 3 years old in the apartment and number 3 looks about 7 years old in the lab. It seems she was the first of Kurama's studies seeing how shocked he was from seeing the actual experimentation. Upon his recruitment just before the scene in the apartment it is said that incidint happened 4 years ago. That makes it about right. This theory can also be supported by the stare / expression in her eyes she gave the policemen as a 3 year old in the apartment and again gave Kurama as a 7 year old in the lab. The eyes match. If it's ok with the rest of you then I am willing to post screens to confirm this. Anyone who object should speak their mind today though.

It could not have been Lucy as Kurama was ordered to look for the "queen" only after his wife died and baby girl was born. By then he was made director but at the early stages of his experiments with number 3 he was not so yet. Also, the DVD special taken into account, Lucy was said to have been discovered, in a diffirent location btw, only 5 years before he was already well into his directorship. Now, judging from Lucy's appearance in the photo he shows from the orphanage and the actual footage we see in the show, this makes it about right, because Lucy looks about 7-8 years old in the orphanage, making her older than the girl found in the apartment, hence, the first, the "queen".

I might change my mind again after giving this show another run-through, but for now I'll go with this.

Now, this said and done -

I don't think Lucy endured much torture / experimentation during her time in captivity. All the footage and back-flashes indicate that she was very much restrained all the time. She was after all their trophy. If they have killed her by mistake via experimenting then they would be pretty much screwed, seeing the Director General regarded the other Diclonius' as useless anyways.

Anyway Zell :

I don't care much for Maya. She is a backdoor-character responsible only for introducing Nana to the rest of the household. Besides that her role in this anime is pretty much useless. Sure ja the fact the she was molested raped is blind. I disagree with what you said there though. Her mom didn't give a shyte.

There is also no proof that Lucy is dead. Yes, she resisted, we clearly see her using her 2 (only 2 / 1 remaining horn) vectors. If she wanted to die she would have stood there doing nothing. If Mariko couldn't kill her (which btw, we thought actually happened at the time she lost her horn, just look at her afterwards, she looks dead) then I seriously doubt the taskforce could.

Ghost stories does not belong in Elfen Lied Zell. Since when does ghosts cast shadows anyway?

Look carefully at the figure you see at the gate. She's standing with her knees together and feet apart. To me that indicates she is hurt / in pain. Coming from a brutal fight we did not actually see happening hours before that makes more sense. Look very close, you don't see any horns either.

She might have came back, or she might simply be letting Kouta know she is still alive. That much is totally up to the viewer, I don't think there is any right or wrong interpretation of the ending.

Though, when she and Kouta made amends they pretty much said their goodbye's imo. Lucy knew very well that she can never live happily ever-after. Remember, in the discussion between the Director General and that secretary of his dead son the morning after Lucy was not confirmed dead and the Director General made it very clear to her that his project is far from over, in fact he said it is only the beginning. As such Lucy can never be at peace, she will always be hunted and I don't think she would have burdened Kouta and the others by this. You must take Lucy's last words to Nana into account - "I wan't you to do, what I cannot." She weren't going back, she was going away.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 09 May 2006, 10:39

Now the good quistion is for who was the extra ricebowl on the table in the end? In japan its bad luck for lay a place for a person thats not there. They believe the are making a place for en evil spirit. Cant remember if anyone answered this before...

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 09 May 2006, 13:50

That is very interesting...

But but but but - why did Yuka lay the table and said "She would have wanted to eat to." then?

OK, now it all makes sense -

See, Lucy really died, and then when Yuka laid that place for Lucy who wasn't there, Lucy was summoned as an evil spirit and appeared at the gate, hence she really is Zell's ghost.

/ I'll be serious later.

What do you think Nuke? You also think Lucy is alive?

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 09 May 2006, 15:12

Huh, Rayne did I miss something... Where does Zell mention Maya, or was that from something earlier? Or are you refering to where he mentions "her innocence taken away"?

Rayne · Post by **Rayne** » 09 May 2006, 16:11

Previous page, end of his long post.

And sorry, it's Mayu not Maya.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 09 May 2006, 18:44

I believe I am the first one here to complete my Elfen collection

Now that I have the last ep on dvd I can watch it again to make a few more theories.

Off-The-Chart · Post by **Off-The-Chart** » 09 May 2006, 19:09

Soz Nuke, I already have the 4 vectors on dvd... Had it by the end of Jan already... Just need to save up to get me one of those box set editions...

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » 09 May 2006, 20:50

Ya but Im the first one with the box set....

I have the box too
Just have to be first with someting

Maybe they laid that place because Kouta was so sure she would come back. Or maybe it was for someone else? Is the 'she' Yuka say would want to eat too Lucy?(not that I can think of anyone else)

Zell · Post by **Zell** » 09 May 2006, 21:28

So Rayne, according to your long post above, it seems you have come to agree with my initial claim that the girl in the apartment was indeed not Lucy.

Also, about Lucy being a GHOST at the end...
Dude, she didn't have any horns right?

*ding ding ding*

She is dead now... very symbolic: "She is not longer the demon"
She wanted to die, and the only way that she could stop being the demon, was to die, otherwise she would spend the rest of her life killing.
She went to the bridge of her own free will. If she didn't want to die, why would she go there?

Anyways, its highly unlikely they shot off her other horn, yet she is alive and kicking.
The clock started again, and no matter how symbolic it is, there had to be something that made it work. She kept on making it worse and worse remember?
As Nyuu, she was trying to mend her/Kouta's life, and that came out as her trying to fix the clock. No matter how hard she tried though, it would get more broken. But she never gave up.

Now that she is dead, she isn't suffering anymore, and she can't hurt Kouta or anybody else enymore. All if fixed... she managed to fix that. And hence the clock works, and the only feasible explanation is that as the ghost, she remembered all she did as Nyuu, so she fixed that clock, which was way beyond repair.

Showing her ghost at the door, she just wanted to show Kouta that all is well now... and that she will always be there for him though.
Kinda like she loves him so much, and she always will. But seeing only a shadow BEHIND the door, shows the viewers that she will never return. There is this uncrossable object betweem them, and that is death.

OTC, you agree with me, right?

I hope all of you like my ghosty ghost!!!

Kher-za · Post by **Kher-za** » 10 May 2006, 08:14

i doubt that it was lucy that you saw, Nana had been pretty badly injured and in the final scene where they are sitting by the table she looks to have been healed and pretty healthy and that would take days.

I doubt Lucy would be fighting for all that time. Perhaps that shadow that they saw is just symbolic of her memory that still remains with the family. I cant remember who saw her shadow, was it just the guy who loved her or was it the entire family?

If it was just him then it could have meant that he would never forget her and that she would always be with him.

I should really watch the series again, i didnt pay all the attention to it that a story such as that demands.