Mighty mens conference

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:05

Thanks Jamin yeah it's a pitty there isn't much we can do to eliminate the negative thinking and just focus on the positive thinking although through meditation and self-endurance you can over-come most obstacles. I've been looking into Quantum Physics and EFT. What you say is true, if you have a momentous task you have to complete and you have negative feelings over it then the chances are you won't get it done but if you truly believe you can do it and you don't have negative thoughts then you can do it but you have to also positively do it and sternly. It's a very tricky subject...

Lmm all I can say is it is a positive thought to believe in God and what he does applying it to your own life, if it makes you happy putting a smile on your face and a better person then it is your reality, hopes and desires. There is nothing wrong with that sort of thinking I would encourage it...

I on the other hand want answers and ask serious questions to myself and people around me. I believe nature may be the higher power rather than a singular being watching over us and casting judgment on us if we sin and then throwing us into the burning blaze of hell but he loves us and watches us burn.

DAE_JA_VOO · Post by **DAE_JA_VOO** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:11

It's all in the mind? I'm sorry but that isn't particularly explanatory. It's physically impossible for a broken bone to literally heal overnight (according to science and doctors and so on).

Also, let's keep in mind that i wasn't hoping and praying that my arm would heal. My attitude was "aarg crap. Well this sucks." and then i pretty much carried on with my life. In fact, i didn't pray ONCE that Jesus would heal my arm. I just accepted that it was broken. The next day it was healed.

So we can cross "it's all in the mind" off the list because my mind didn't care

Post by **GDI_Lord** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:14

@Imm - Just to further turn this discussion off the original topic of the MMC:
Pascal's Gambit

@ir -

We all say positive thoughts right? Well a positive thought mainly is just the coating over the negative thoughts, ie: Quantum Physics. You want to walk on water but you cannot no matter how positive your thinking is there is numerous doubts such as you know you WILL fall into the water. If you are in a wheelchair at a Religious gathering and you truly believe in God and that he is going to help you and you are going to walk again and that there is absolutely no way you will fall and embarrass yourself then yes through that extreme positive thinking and those thousands of people that are there truly believe and know you are going to walk again through the grace and mercy of God and they picture you walking and cheer you on it may just happen.

You use quantum physics to state a certainty, the surface tension of water not being able to withstand the pressure of a (presumably) normal foot and so allows the person to sink, and say that no amount of positive thinking will prevent this. Then you say that a getting out of a wheelchair, in most cases impossible to fix with medical science, is a result of positive thinking.

Physics relates to biology? Can "positive thinking" affect both external (water) and internal (human body of the thinker/target of the mass thinking) objects? I know that my God can effect both.

And BTW, my grandmother is still walking around fine now, years later.

Anyway, back to the MMC. I've asked my pastor if there is a DVD of the event. He said I must check online. Did anyone here take some video footage?

Post by **GDI_Lord** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:19

@ir - Try and think of it this way:
A parent loves his child. That child got arrested for somethingorother. The parent says to the child that he will pay the bail money so the child doesn't have to spend the night in jail. The parent comes to fetch the child, but the child doesn't believe the parent and refuses to open the cell door and leave the prison and go home.

The parent loves the child, but despite his efforts the child doesn't want to leave.

Hope that (admittedly bad) analogy helps.

Edit:

douglash · Post by **douglash** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:20

I'm sorry i missed this conference... definitely next year... try get some of the guys from the family to go with me cos they need to see what God can do in a man's life...

i know where i been, i know where i am and i think i know where i am going... thanks goes to God...

OT - sorry jamin, but i find this quite interesting...

jamin_za wrote:I consider myself agnostic - which is to say I just don't know for sure either way.

Ok, Agnostic and you don't know for sure, cool.... but,

jamin_za wrote:Is He that indecisive...

I like the way you still refer to God in capitals (He)... i think you do know deep down...

capanno · Post by **capanno** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:21

I will refrain from posting here because I will most certainly get a warning or maybe a ban.

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:21

DAE_JA_VOO wrote:It's all in the mind? I'm sorry but that isn't particularly explanatory. It's physically impossible for a broken bone to literally heal overnight (according to science and doctors and so on).

Also, let's keep in mind that i wasn't hoping and praying that my arm would heal. My attitude was "aarg crap. Well this sucks." and then i pretty much carried on with my life. In fact, i didn't pray ONCE that Jesus would heal my arm. I just accepted that it was broken. The next day it was healed.

So we can cross "it's all in the mind" off the list because my mind didn't care

You are aware that if they put you on laughing gas during a operation or anesthetic then you will not feel the pain. A broken bone can heal itself it does depend on the how serious it is but the body can heal itself, as a shortcut the doctor can put a metal piece there to help stabilize the broken joints into healing itself back together or even a artificial bone but your body can heal itself just as you can trick your brain to ignore pain. Have you ever heard of someone getting shot and acting as if they are about to die only realizing later it was a graze?

how serious was your broken bone was it just a small fracture?

lmm · Post by **lmm** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:22

GDI_Lord wrote:@ir - Try and think of it this way:
A parent loves his child. That child got arrested for somethingorother. The parent says to the child that he will pay the bail money so the child doesn't have to spend the night in jail. The parent comes to fetch the child, but the child doesn't believe the parent and refuses to open the cell door and leave the prison and go home.

The parent loves the child, but despite his efforts the child doesn't want to leave.

Hope that (admittedly bad) analogy helps.

Edit:

very good analogy.

lmm · Post by **lmm** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:28

i_r_baboon wrote:Lmm all I can say is it is a positive thought to believe in God and what he does applying it to your own life, if it makes you happy putting a smile on your face and a better person then it is your reality, hopes and desires. There is nothing wrong with that sort of thinking I would encourage it...

I on the other hand want answers and ask serious questions to myself and people around me. I believe nature may be the higher power rather than a singular being watching over us and casting judgment on us if we sin and then throwing us into the burning blaze of hell but he loves us and watches us burn.

No its a heart knowlege not a head knowlege. so its not positive thinking its my heart that knows.

Its not if we sin we get cast in to hell, its if we choice not to belive and follow God. God loves us yet he gave us the freewill to choice and either you do or you dont. Sin separates us from him so he loved us so much that he sent a part of him his son to take our punishment from us. He did this so we could be near to him, to walk with him. if you choice to not walk with him, you choice to go to hell. this is what i belive, and choice to follow. i will not judge anyone for beliving differently and i am open to hear what others have to say.

DAE_JA_VOO · Post by **DAE_JA_VOO** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:31

i_r_baboon wrote:
DAE_JA_VOO wrote:It's all in the mind? I'm sorry but that isn't particularly explanatory. It's physically impossible for a broken bone to literally heal overnight (according to science and doctors and so on).

Also, let's keep in mind that i wasn't hoping and praying that my arm would heal. My attitude was "aarg crap. Well this sucks." and then i pretty much carried on with my life. In fact, i didn't pray ONCE that Jesus would heal my arm. I just accepted that it was broken. The next day it was healed.

So we can cross "it's all in the mind" off the list because my mind didn't care
You are aware that if they put you on laughing gas during a operation or anesthetic then you will not feel the pain. A broken bone can heal itself it does depend on the how serious it is but the body can heal itself, as a shortcut the doctor can put a metal piece there to help stabilize the broken joints into healing itself back together or even a artificial bone but your body can heal itself just as you can trick your brain to ignore pain. Have you ever heard of someone getting shot and acting as if they are about to die only realizing later it was a graze? how serious was your broken bone was it just a small fracture?

I'm aware of all of the above.

It wasn't a serious fracture (i.e. bones sticking out of my arm) but it was a solid snap. And even if the bone had healed itself, there would be new bone formation around the area that broke (this is what happens to a broken bone. It heals and then new bone forms around the healed area), and there was absolutely no new bone formation. It was as if the x-ray was taken of a perfectly fine elbow with no prior injury.

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:41

GDI_Lord wrote:@ir -
We all say positive thoughts right? Well a positive thought mainly is just the coating over the negative thoughts, ie: Quantum Physics. You want to walk on water but you cannot no matter how positive your thinking is there is numerous doubts such as you know you WILL fall into the water. If you are in a wheelchair at a Religious gathering and you truly believe in God and that he is going to help you and you are going to walk again and that there is absolutely no way you will fall and embarrass yourself then yes through that extreme positive thinking and those thousands of people that are there truly believe and know you are going to walk again through the grace and mercy of God and they picture you walking and cheer you on it may just happen.
You use quantum physics to state a certainty, the surface tension of water not being able to withstand the pressure of a (presumably) normal foot and so allows the person to sink, and say that no amount of positive thinking will prevent this. Then you say that a getting out of a wheelchair, in most cases impossible to fix with medical science, is a result of positive thinking.

Physics relates to biology? Can "positive thinking" affect both external (water) and internal (human body of the thinker/target of the mass thinking) objects? I know that my God can effect both.

There are some things we can and can't do however can a blind person see water? They have connected peoples brains to machines and made that person see and describe a random object and as they were doing it the Scientists were able to see which parts of the brain were working in describing the object, they then told that person to close his eyes and picture the same object describing it in his head and the same parts of the brain were working as before so if you have never seen water or heard of water are you sure your mind will really be able to see the water infront of you? There was this Native Indian Shaman that noticed ripples in the water and strange wave patterns, in the distance was Christopher Columbus's ships but this Shaman could not see them because he has never seen or heard of ships so far out or possibly boats for that matter, after looking for days he finally saw the ships and told the tribesmen and they also saw it.

You can say that water cannot withstand our weight and I will agree with that for the time being but when you are in a wheelchair because your legs cannot move or have forgotten to move due to spinal injury and you know you are going to walk as in you get rid of the negative thinking and you work hard at it then it can be done. If you add a few thousand people focusing on you and cheering you on truly believing you will walk as you yourself also truly believe you will get up and walk then it can be done.

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:54

DAE_JA_VOO wrote:I'm aware of all of the above.

It wasn't a serious fracture (i.e. bones sticking out of my arm) but it was a solid snap. And even if the bone had healed itself, there would be new bone formation around the area that broke (this is what happens to a broken bone. It heals and then new bone forms around the healed area), and there was absolutely no new bone formation. It was as if the x-ray was taken of a perfectly fine elbow with no prior injury.

I havn't heard much of these over-night miracles so you will have to excuse my skeptic point of view. If that indeed did happen then it's a miracle of some sort and you yourself said you didn't say a Prayer for it to get better over-night. Have you broken bones before? Do you drink a lot of milk or calcium en-riched products? I've seen pictures of a tree-man before seriously it was in a FHM my sister had that I was looking through he really was a tree-man.

Some things happen, maybe Aliens abducted you and healed it so that they can watch you skate sooner - just joking

I don't have the answers so I cannot say there isn't a God without having doubts I can only try and use my logic and perception. It is possible God did make it that your fracture heals over-night.

D3PART3D · Post by **D3PART3D** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:54

There was this Native Indian Shaman that noticed ripples in the water and strange wave patterns, in the distance was Christopher Columbus's ships but this Shaman could not see them because he has never seen or heard of ships so far out or possibly boats for that matter, after looking for days he finally saw the ships and told the tribesmen and they also saw it.

I've heard this story before, but it sounds like nothing but a legend to me. Methinks ol' Christopher was just so chuffed with the fact that he had gunpowder and sea vessels that he had to add some embellishments to his story.

but when you are in a wheelchair because your legs cannot move or have forgotten to move due to spinal injury and you know you are going to walk as in you get rid of the negative thinking and you work hard at it then it can be done

No it can't. You lose the ability to walk because there is a break in the connection of motor nerves. Unless your mind has the ability to influence their regeneration, "remembering" to walk again is a joke. Your nerves have no memory (not in the sense that your mind does.).

Post by **GDI_Lord** » 23 Apr 2008, 11:58

i_r_baboon wrote:They have connected peoples brains to machines and made that person see and describe a random object and as they were doing it the Scientists were able to see which parts of the brain were working in describing the object, they then told that person to close his eyes and picture the same object describing it in his head and the same parts of the brain were working as before so if you have never seen water or heard of water are you sure your mind will really be able to see the water infront of you?

Interesting.

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 23 Apr 2008, 12:10

D3PART3D wrote:No it can't. You lose the ability to walk because there is a break in the connection of motor nerves. Unless your mind has the ability to influence their regeneration, "remembering" to walk again is a joke. Your nerves have no memory (not in the sense that your mind does.).

I have heard of people with severe spinal cord injuries and doctors saying that they will never walk again getting on a special tread-mill and through hard work and acceptance of their condition aswell as a lot of positive thinking they were able to walk again.

You get severe cases and there are some things you cannot do like move a mountain with your mind-power but you do get people who are told they cannot do certain things and will never be able to do it but through working hard and positive thinking persistently going at it you can achieve what they told you that you will never over-come. If your arm was lost due to war or something along those lines maybe an illness whatever it may be no-matter what you do you cannot grow that arm back but there are things, very hard things you are told you cannot do but you end up doing them through hard work, positive thinking and determination.

DAE_JA_VOO · Post by **DAE_JA_VOO** » 23 Apr 2008, 14:06

i_r_baboon wrote:
DAE_JA_VOO wrote:I'm aware of all of the above.

It wasn't a serious fracture (i.e. bones sticking out of my arm) but it was a solid snap. And even if the bone had healed itself, there would be new bone formation around the area that broke (this is what happens to a broken bone. It heals and then new bone forms around the healed area), and there was absolutely no new bone formation. It was as if the x-ray was taken of a perfectly fine elbow with no prior injury.
I havn't heard much of these over-night miracles so you will have to excuse my skeptic point of view. If that indeed did happen then it's a miracle of some sort and you yourself said you didn't say a Prayer for it to get better over-night. Have you broken bones before? Do you drink a lot of milk or calcium en-riched products? I've seen pictures of a tree-man before seriously it was in a FHM my sister had that I was looking through he really was a tree-man.

Some things happen, maybe Aliens abducted you and healed it so that they can watch you skate sooner - just joking

I don't have the answers so I cannot say there isn't a God without having doubts I can only try and use my logic and perception. It is possible God did make it that your fracture heals over-night.

LOL

I've broken many many bones. My bones used to break like toothpicks (then again, skateboarding was pretty much asking for it). I don't drink a lot of milk either...

But yeah, it certainly was a miracle and i'm thankful that JC hooked me up

Ambrosia · Post by **Ambrosia** » 23 Apr 2008, 23:29

One question..

Why do unbelievers always try to prove believers wrong, and always have bad comments about Christianity - when they always say they don't give a crap about Christianity? Why all the fuss and comments then if you really don't care? Just shows you one thing.. Go to the threads where you actually KNOW something.

This was an amazing even for many Christians, so let it be..

Post by **Anakha56** » 23 Apr 2008, 23:59

Ambrosia wrote:One question..

Why do unbelievers always try to prove believers wrong, and always have bad comments about Christianity - when they always say they don't give a crap about Christianity? Why all the fuss and comments then if you really don't care? Just shows you one thing.. Go to the threads where you actually KNOW something.

This was an amazing even for many Christians, so let it be..

My one and only time I will venture here into this thread...

To reply to your question will be by answering it with another question:

Why do "believers" always see it fit to try and prove themselves right and to condemn all those who dont believe?

You see I would love to leave you lot alone to go and do whatever you do but I cant. Simple reason being no matter where I go in the world there is always some pompous religious jerk flaunting his beliefs in my face. Be it by bumper sticker, church board or handing me flyers about how I will be saved if I accept the "true" God

. Oh and most (if not all) of us "unbelievers" used to belong to some religious domination but we left because the answers were not satisfactory. So to tie it up:

Our life choices are ours to make, you (and I refer to all religious types here) have no say in my life and what I do, so let me be and I will let you be.

On the side the reason why we "unbelievers" come and "crash" the party is because we are simply curious as to what you are getting up to. What concerns me is that this event is a tad bit sexiest dont you think? What happened to "Mighty Women"? Is there one?

And to close off anyone who wants to debate religion please go to the appropriate thread if not your post will be deleted. This thread is for Christians to talk about an event of theirs. Anthro since this is your thread I leave it for you to enforce the law

.

/my post is not an attack it is merely to try and show you that there are 2 sides to every coin and you addressing the issue by looking at your side only.

/and if this does not make sense I apologise

Night Shift does wierd things to ones mind. Look at how scared jamin is

DAE_JA_VOO · Post by **DAE_JA_VOO** » 24 Apr 2008, 00:37

You know Anakha, i read until i got this:

Anakha56 wrote:Why do "believers" always see it fit to try and prove themselves right and to condemn all those who dont believe?

A few lines later you made a similar generalization and i didn't bother to read the rest of your post.

Saying that "believers do x" and "believers do y" is like saying that all homeless people drink or that all black people steal. You can't generalize like that. Not all christians "condemn" non-christians. In fact, NO christian should do it. Sure, you can tell a non-christian what you believe and what your bible says, but you can't straight out tell the guy "Listen bru, you're going to hell".

I'm a christian, do you EVER see me condemning anyone?

Also, the last thing any Christian should ever do is try and prove themselves right to anyone else. Christians, of ALL people, should know that they're not perfect and full of flaws.

You seriously can't generalize like that dude

Post by **Anakha56** » 24 Apr 2008, 01:15

Only on this forum have I met people who do not do condemn, everywhere else I go and people ask what religion am I, I get the speeches so yeah thats why I generalise because my experiance is what guides me. Also keep in mind Ambrosia also generalised by saying:

Why do unbelievers always try to prove believers wrong

So if the shoe fits?

Get what I'm saying? I am only responding in kind.

.

damn you my second post in this thread!

Moses · Post by **Moses** » 24 Apr 2008, 02:15

I really don't have time to sauce it now, but I once read about a study where people where given placebo 'chemotherapy' and they were vomiting all over the place. It's all in the mind.

And DJV, if your elbow really was broken, why isn't this all over the news? Surely the doctors you dealt with would want to publicize this? Maybe you should contact Mr Randi for your $1,000,000 prize?
Tell me honestly what your doctor said when you had your second x-ray - I'm guessing he wasn't jumping around screaming "it's a miracle", there is most likely a very sound explanation is to why your elbow appeared broken, and I will favour a natural explanation over a supernatural explanation any day.

i_r_baboon · Post by **i_r_baboon** » 24 Apr 2008, 04:05

Well it gets on my nerves when I see people saying this person got out of their wheelchair because it was "God's" doing. If something happens that is not natural or extraordinary why should they attach that event to a "God"? I said that if you have someone in a wheelchair and nerves can still find a way to their legs and a few areas have slightly healed over time the cheering and focus of thousands of people staring at that person urging them on to get up aswell as that person convinced that they will get up then something can happen. I don't see why this should be attributed to a "God".

As Anakha56 said most un-believers were believers at first but then looked for answers to serious questions. I believe in Nature as a higher power I don't believe in a singular being that is behind everything. Why should we sit back and watch as people are still stuck on a book from the dark ages that says the Earth is flat?

Post by **Anthro** » 24 Apr 2008, 06:11

Time to say some more.
I think that we are venturing into an awesome time for South Africa (spiritually atleast)
This thread was solely created to enquire about the camp, and what went on there.
Obviously believers and 'non -believers' will be arguing about validity of healing or even a change of heart in a person, both are a miracle IMO - and this is not the thread to be arguing about this, posts will be removed if it gets out of hand.
All I can say is that as a group of guys that went to the camp we were truly blessed by the message given - and changed as well.
Meaning the following by changed:
Angus Buchan stated that as a man, you should go home after this camp laying down your pride, and go to ask your wife, children and family for forgiveness because you might have hurt them by shouting at them, not being a good example etc.
This nation can be healed if fathers stand up and show the way for their children and spouse - because we are the leaders - and in a spiritual connotation the priest and prophet of the house.

Just to answer some of the questions:
Was there a spring popping out of the ground while Angus was preaching ?
NO, he spoke about the time that he needed water on the farm, and then prayed to God to show him where it is, rather than getting someone with a 'divining' stick.

Womens camp?
Well.. the women would not have survived this camp, as there were open-air showers (communal walk together in naked showers)
To take a leak there was a hole/ creep dug up and a net put up in front to take a leak in... so no ladies unfortunately..
The reason Angus has no womens camps is because the husband is the leader in the home - and no don't call me sexist., that is the way it's supposed to work..

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 24 Apr 2008, 08:02

Anthropoid wrote:there were open-air showers (communal walk together in naked showers)

Finally! After 5 pages, the real reason all you guys went for this thing comes to life.

I hope you all enjoyed shower hour

lancelot · Post by **lancelot** » 24 Apr 2008, 13:12

I am watching this, moved back by request.