Your Contentious Issue for today:Oath of Allegiance

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:33

I don't see anything wrong with this...

Do kids still pray and sing hymns in school?

We should get rid of all that!

jee · Post by **jee** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:36

puppi, don't you think asking for cuddles in the Oath will be just dandy? i will re-write it as soon as i finsih my operational plan for the year (so don't hold your breath, it might take a while but somehing like

I promice to honour the Huggler, and the constitution and the values of South Africa as long as cuddles are a daily occurance
A nation united by our differences, yet willing to hug
a land of equality and understanding where it does not matter what race or gender you are, as long as the huggle is sincerely meant
May truth and justice be our guides,
and Winnie the Pooh our source of wisdom."

Post by **KillerByte** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:36

Jee, you got PM

DeanMF · Post by **DeanMF** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:41

Jamin

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:50

DeanMF wrote: Jamin

What

When I have kids, I want them to learn facts at school.

There are these things called churches where they can learn all about religion etc etc

jee · Post by **jee** » 13 Feb 2008, 11:55

DeanMF wrote: Jamin

3

why the evil Dean?

DeanMF · Post by **DeanMF** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:10

Well, putting it that way, Jamin does have a valid point

Must just be my upbringing, but I used to love a morning prayer in assembly before school starts. In primary school they read a scripture and then said a prayer. In high school we used to have a moment of silence. Always felt like the day goes better when we did this before the day started.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:11

@jee - love the huggles idea. No day is complete without at least a few hugs

@Jamin -

you stirrer you

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:13

DeanMF wrote:In primary school they read a scripture and then said a prayer.

Same at my school.

Problem was we had a lot of Muslim and Hindu kids at our school, and they were forced to sing the hymns and bow their heads in prayer.

I cant image it was their favorite time of day.

Post by **KillerByte** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:17

i see your point Jamin

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:20

Let us not delve into religious studies at schools. I have a huge problem with how they convey the information.

Oh btw - my son's teacher mentioned Darwin (in their syllabus) and said "This is just for interest sake. You don't have to believe it - I don't." !!!! 8O

Now things like that need to be addressed before taking an oath.

Interfan · Post by **Interfan** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:21

jamin_za wrote:
DeanMF wrote: Jamin
What

When I have kids, I want them to learn facts at school.

There are these things called churches where they can learn all about religion etc etc

I agree with Jamin. I believe in church and school being separate.

DeathStrike · Post by **DeathStrike** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:21

i see this story on the news last nite. i am so glad i not in skul anymore. but if i was i wud give them hell

and i am leaving this slowly degenerating country as soon as i can.

@jamin_za i am muslim and i didn't really care. i ges its got to do with how u view other religions. i have respect 4 all.

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:22

Tribble, would you have preferred that she actually told the children they HAVE to believe it?

That is the way I would prefer them to do it. I like the fact that it said it is just for interest sake and that it is not critical, nor do they force it on you...

jee · Post by **jee** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:23

Dean, a moment of silence is all that is needed - that way each belief system can do what they want. I absolutely dislike the fact that one is "forced" to pray before any meeting... they asked me only once at my previous job - needless to say, they were so shocked that it was a quiet meeting, and they never asked me again... *grins*

DeanMF · Post by **DeanMF** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:23

Thats why I was happier in high-school when we had just a moment of silence.

But yes, jamin, i agree that they should not force the kids to participate in a event that is against their beliefs.

To get back on topic... I think a pledge is a very bad idea. Its the same thing as forcing Muslim and Hindu kids to listen to scriptures (sp?) and "pray" to a Christian God. I feel you as a person cannot be forced to do anything you dont want to do.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:27

Slasher wrote:Tribble, would you have preferred that she actually told the children they HAVE to believe it?

That is the way I would prefer them to do it. I like the fact that it said it is just for interest sake and that it is not critical, nor do they force it on you...

No matter what answer I give - I will offend someone. If it is part of the syllabus, it must be taught as such. Generally there is a lot of work that the kids have to do and they do not put little interesting ( . )-bits in just to fill up time. If it is something they should be learning - then the teacher should not play it down.

DeanMF · Post by **DeanMF** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:33

DeathStrike wrote:i see this story on the news last nite. i am so glad i not in skul anymore. but if i was i wud give them hell .

You should have given your english teacher hell

muffinman · Post by **muffinman** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:34

rofl!!!

jee · Post by **jee** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:34

Slasher wrote:Tribble, would you have preferred that she actually told the children they HAVE to believe it?

That is the way I would prefer them to do it. I like the fact that it said it is just for interest sake and that it is not critical, nor do they force it on you...

Any professional teacher would teach the facts - from both sides, and not tell the children what they believe, or what the children should believe. In order for people to become fully-fledged human beings (well hopeful) they should be given all the information, and be allowed to make their own decisions when they are mature enough.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 13 Feb 2008, 12:40

Well said jee. Teachers are there to pass on facts and not opinions. Just as parents are.

My belief system is different to that of my parents (they were agnostic) but they allowed me to decide for myself. The did have a problem with what I finally chose but they kept out of it. We often have discussions but that is just interesting.

Slasher · Post by **Slasher** » 13 Feb 2008, 13:04

Well, she just shared her opinion and told the children they can believe or NOT believe it as they choose...

Is that not what you are complaining for?

How can you ever be 100% objective of something? People have an opinion and it will have an effect on how you react to it. She may have shared the fact that she does not believe it to ensure that the children understand when she has a negative attitude towards it and allow them to get the details for themselves should they require more info...

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 13 Feb 2008, 13:12

I teach MS courses and have to teach according to the answers they want in the PC exams. I cannot say "Just for interest sake - here is the way they want you to do it. I don't believe it is the best method but it is up to you to decide." If they used my method (which is better btw) they would not get the marks as the exam is programed according MS prerequisites. My opinion means Zip. The syllabus is what it is and should be taught as such.

viceroy · Post by **viceroy** » 13 Feb 2008, 13:12

Slasher wrote:Well, she just shared her opinion and told the children they can believe or NOT believe it as they choose...

Is that not what you are complaining for?

How can you ever be 100% objective of something? People have an opinion and it will have an effect on how you react to it. She may have shared the fact that she does not believe it to ensure that the children understand when she has a negative attitude towards it and allow them to get the details for themselves should they require more info...

but then she told them what she believes, which is wrong. children are extremely impressionable and as such will usually start to believe what they see others doing/believing.

she should have stopped at they can believe or not.

Hex_Rated · Post by **Hex_Rated** » 13 Feb 2008, 13:13

Sorry if this comes across as stereotyping but some black people are so ultra sensitive when it comes to things that have any implication of anything that isn't 100% politically correct in their favour, while this "prayer to the revolutionaries" could be construed as forcing people to apologise for past perceived injustices. Can they not see why some people would find it offensive?

I would refuse to say this or if I had kids let them say this just on principle. My parents brought me up to believe apartheid was wrong, I even went to a multiracial school from grade 1 long before 1994. In fact I was half way through high school by 94 when the rest of the country was only starting to become incorporated. Why do I need or even worse my kids need to acknowledge each day before school what happened in the past? Isn't this something that should be taught during History instead? I have no problem with the educational system placing great emphasis on Apartheid and the struggle during History lessons, in fact I expect them to.

Apartheid was a gross abuse of human rights, but if European "settlers" hadn't come to this country they would have been even worse off. The European "settlers" are leaving the country in great numbers, taking with them a huge amount of knowledge and skills. And what about current injustices like BEE? Shouldn't people learn from the past?