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Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
Trolls trolling trolls
Tigerblood everywhere
#WINNING
Tigerblood everywhere
#WINNING
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
how about this...-Prometheus- wrote:So follow your own damn advice. Kapish!!!
1) you're arguing for creationism
2) against evilution
this thread is titled "Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science"
the other thread is titled "Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE"
let's see if out can work out where it is you're going wrong... :/
or you could continue to stand there with your fingers in your ears humming tonal nonsense sounds really loudly for a few more posts...
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
Welcome to the Twilight Zone, filled with "I know you are, but what am I?" arguments!
PS: Riax, your description of the Big Bang and expanding space is wrong and cannot be found in any legitimate literature. If you can, I'd love to see it. The Big Bang was not a matter-antimatter explosion and in a Big Bang universe there is no centre or point of origin. The point of origin is the entire universe.
So is your depiction of time as the fourth dimension. You describe it as if it is a space-like dimension, when in fact it is time-like. We do experience time. We can't imagine a fourth space-like dimension.
PS: Riax, your description of the Big Bang and expanding space is wrong and cannot be found in any legitimate literature. If you can, I'd love to see it. The Big Bang was not a matter-antimatter explosion and in a Big Bang universe there is no centre or point of origin. The point of origin is the entire universe.
So is your depiction of time as the fourth dimension. You describe it as if it is a space-like dimension, when in fact it is time-like. We do experience time. We can't imagine a fourth space-like dimension.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
@ kalster
Look into dark energy and dark matter
String and M theory by ed witman
and Steven hawking's time travel
and finially i did say
Look into dark energy and dark matter
String and M theory by ed witman
and Steven hawking's time travel
and finially i did say
this is just my personal opinion
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
I have read a lot on those topics and my reservations stand.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
i'm sorry.... i don't get into these debates as i would then be debating with myself but how can you say that evolution is not science......-Prometheus- wrote:... evolution isn't science either...
evolution is basically the changes that plants and animals go through in order to adapt to their ever changing environments.... and that my dear friend is science....
but as said before there is a thread for evolution and this thread is mainly for the pure sciences i will leave it there...
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
And the reason for my posting of the article here is because it deals with the Science behind life. Not to start the creation evolution debate. However to accommodate both sides I shall repost in the other thread to get that time bomb ticking... 
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
@ kalster watch a documentry called The universe , big bang special
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:43, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
I see the word "theory" is being thrown around in the usual colloquial way and not as it is meant in the scientific way. Riax's "theory" is not a theory at all (it is at best a hypothesis), just as creation "theory" is not a scientific theory, because is does not follow the scientific method. THAT, my dear Prometheus, is why creation IS NOT SCIENCE. And you claiming it to be science, or that evolution theory isn't, serves no purpose other than to incense people even further, no matter for what purposes you supposedly are making these outlandish and incredibly ignorant claims. You "I know you are, but what am I" rhetoric is childish and disingenuous in the extreme.
@Riax: I will.
@Riax: I will.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
Wrong thread.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
Erm he redirected his question in the right thread 3 minutes after he posted in this thread. Refresh page 
.
.JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
rofl , a theory is a theory its speculation on a matter. A hypothesis is a proposed explanation of an observation.
Thus by definition if you cant call the big bang a hypothesis because you cant observe it. I can speculate of the event of the formation of the universe and hence its my theory irrespective whether its wrong or right. So before you start talking about "scientific methods" learn what the words used mean. Secondly you say my theory is incorrect without explaining to me why you think its incorrect (i wont say you not supplying reference material because i didnt either thus that would be extremely arrogant to ask for this), but im pretty sure a debate doesnt work like that. I put forward a point and my opponent goes "nah you wrong"
anyways alot of my cosmic knowledge comes from documentaries, some are a little biased but i believe a documentry can be credible source of reference in an informal debate, provided the person refering to the material has a good memory (uh oh
). If you interested in seeing all the information i will state the documentries i've watched:
1 - History Channel's the universe (all 4 seasons) this one is simply brilliant
2 - Nova science's The elegant universe, the presentor is annoying
3 - BBC's atom, average
4 - Steven Hawking's Into the universe, average
now the reason i prefer watching documentries for celestial matters is because its easier to explain and comprehend with animations for the lay person like me
lol (compared to these guys with phD in astrophysics and the kings of cosmology we are noob). Going to watch carl sagan's comos soon but its rather old so i dont think it will change any views i already have.
Thus by definition if you cant call the big bang a hypothesis because you cant observe it. I can speculate of the event of the formation of the universe and hence its my theory irrespective whether its wrong or right. So before you start talking about "scientific methods" learn what the words used mean. Secondly you say my theory is incorrect without explaining to me why you think its incorrect (i wont say you not supplying reference material because i didnt either thus that would be extremely arrogant to ask for this), but im pretty sure a debate doesnt work like that. I put forward a point and my opponent goes "nah you wrong"
anyways alot of my cosmic knowledge comes from documentaries, some are a little biased but i believe a documentry can be credible source of reference in an informal debate, provided the person refering to the material has a good memory (uh oh
). If you interested in seeing all the information i will state the documentries i've watched:1 - History Channel's the universe (all 4 seasons) this one is simply brilliant
2 - Nova science's The elegant universe, the presentor is annoying
3 - BBC's atom, average
4 - Steven Hawking's Into the universe, average
now the reason i prefer watching documentries for celestial matters is because its easier to explain and comprehend with animations for the lay person like me
lol (compared to these guys with phD in astrophysics and the kings of cosmology we are noob). Going to watch carl sagan's comos soon but its rather old so i dont think it will change any views i already have.Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
The word "theory" in scientific terms does not simply mean an idea or speculation as you are using it or as is colloquially used in everyday conversation. It is only a scientific theory if it provides an explanation of observations , takes current understanding into account and makes testable predictions. It is the testing of these predictions through experiment and observation that improves the veracity of the scientific theory. Your "theory" is incorrect insofar as it does not tie up with currently more accepted theories. I will provide citations a bit later on.
In fact, this wrong definition of it is exactly one of the points creationists can't seem to get over when discussing the truth value of scientific claims and indeed seems to be tripping Prometheus up as well: the old "it is only a theory" canard. This is why I take exception to your usage of the term. The fact that you are speculating is fine, as long as you qualify it as speculation or at least philosophical theories. I do it too; it is fun!;)
Not everything should be considered gospel as presented in documentaries. They are often very informative and entertaining and provide a general outline of ideas, sure, but they are not as rigorous as they can be, while others are plain terrible and filled with speculation and misunderstanding. I can tell you scientists are not generally fans of them. Reputable channels like Discovery is even guilty of this from time to time. The best way for laymen such as ourselves to really form a proper understanding of the method and language of science, as well as points of fact and of contention, are to read popularisations of science that are endorsed by other scientists and once you have some understanding of the subject matter, some peer-reviewed papers and publications in respectable magazines like Nature and Science.
I have seen some of those you are suggesting and some are very good. I will have a look at them again.
In fact, this wrong definition of it is exactly one of the points creationists can't seem to get over when discussing the truth value of scientific claims and indeed seems to be tripping Prometheus up as well: the old "it is only a theory" canard. This is why I take exception to your usage of the term. The fact that you are speculating is fine, as long as you qualify it as speculation or at least philosophical theories. I do it too; it is fun!;)
Not everything should be considered gospel as presented in documentaries. They are often very informative and entertaining and provide a general outline of ideas, sure, but they are not as rigorous as they can be, while others are plain terrible and filled with speculation and misunderstanding. I can tell you scientists are not generally fans of them. Reputable channels like Discovery is even guilty of this from time to time. The best way for laymen such as ourselves to really form a proper understanding of the method and language of science, as well as points of fact and of contention, are to read popularisations of science that are endorsed by other scientists and once you have some understanding of the subject matter, some peer-reviewed papers and publications in respectable magazines like Nature and Science.
I have seen some of those you are suggesting and some are very good. I will have a look at them again.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
ugh just go with the damn english definition lol, if its a theory its a theory anyone can have theory you dont have to be a scientist to have a theory. It will remain a theory until it is proven then at which point it will be considered FACT, remember the classes of information 1 2 and 3.
@ kalster i did say its my theory D: , and i did say documentries arent a good citation and finally this is an informal forum and also you say some of them can be full of speculation? LOL you sir are missing the point, ALL of them are speculation from ed witman to steven hawkings to any major cosmologist's work on big bang string and m theroies, thats why its called theoretical physics. Its our job to filter and absorb the knowledge and ideals they have created to draw a conclusion.
@ kalster i did say its my theory D: , and i did say documentries arent a good citation and finally this is an informal forum
and also you say some of them can be full of speculation? LOL you sir are missing the point, ALL of them are speculation from ed witman to steven hawkings to any major cosmologist's work on big bang string and m theroies, thats why its called theoretical physics. Its our job to filter and absorb the knowledge and ideals they have created to draw a conclusion.-
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
nope. sorry. i'm with KALSTER on this... a scientific theory is not something you can discard like yesterday's fish wrapper...RiaX wrote:if its a theory its a theory anyone can have theory you dont have to be a scientist to have a theory.
if the collection of hypothesis to which it is bound have negotiated multiple iterations of proving, then it carries far more weight than the colloquial context you're implying...
theory, in the scientific world, has a very distinct definition... and i can assure you the definition does not include whatever brain aneurysm we happened to suffer over breakfast this morning... :/
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Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
No, documentaries are largely based on the understandings and interpretations of the Narrator and Film Maker and the agenda of the people funding them.-Prometheus- wrote:I will agree on that first sentence.KALSTER wrote:Not everything should be considered gospel as presented in documentaries. They are often very informative and entertaining and provide a general outline of ideas, sure, but they are not as rigorous as they can be, while others are plain terrible and filled with speculation and misunderstanding. I can tell you scientists are not generally fans of them. Reputable channels like Discovery is even guilty of this from time to time. The best way for laymen such as ourselves to really form a proper understanding of the method and language of science, as well as points of fact and of contention, are to read popularisations of science that are endorsed by other scientists and once you have some understanding of the subject matter, some peer-reviewed papers and publications in respectable magazines like Nature and Science.However, documentaries are geared towards the general public and so will use terms and explain things in such a way that most people will understand them. There are some good doccies that will have endorsements from scientists as far as being directed at the public. Peer review is also not the gold standard you may think it is but I'll have more on that later.
Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science
well depends on how you going about it, if its formal research then yes my definition is totally incorrect. However this isnt formal so the definition of theory in the manner i used it earlier to explain my opinion still stands correctrustypup wrote:nope. sorry. i'm with KALSTER on this... a scientific theory is not something you can discard like yesterday's fish wrapper...RiaX wrote:if its a theory its a theory anyone can have theory you dont have to be a scientist to have a theory.
if the collection of hypothesis to which it is bound have negotiated multiple iterations of proving, then it carries far more weight than the colloquial context you're implying...
theory, in the scientific world, has a very distinct definition... and i can assure you the definition does not include whatever brain aneurysm we happened to suffer over breakfast this morning... :/
Do you know what channels you have to go through before you are allowed to form a theory in the scientific community ? its a headache i've done novel research and i tell you getting the title for your research which also forms the backbone of your theory is the hardest part in research