Ethics

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:01

I agree - you would not sue an author of a book about serial killers just incase someone copied his plot line.

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:11

Tribble wrote:you would not sue an author of a book about serial killers just incase someone copied his plot line.

Yes you would.
That's plagiarism.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:12

jamin_za wrote:
Tribble wrote:you would not sue an author of a book about serial killers just incase someone copied his plot line.
Yes you would.
That's plagiarism.

Oh go and play with yourself - you know what I mean

If someone recreated the plot in reality.

Website · Post by **hamin_aus** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:17

Tribble wrote:Oh go and play with yourself

Well, now that I have your permission

Copying a fictitious story and acting on advice given to you are two different things. I think you used a bad analogy.

Although I do agree that it would be hard to prosecute someone for assisting in a suicide if all they did was give factual information and zero encouragement.

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:22

And they are unaware of the person's desire. It is purely hypothetical.

And sadly that was a bad example. Trying to work and post is not going too well.

jee · Post by **jee** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:24

RuadRauFlessa wrote: You are however not allowed to practice without a license and if someone says that they want information on how to kill themselves any information you may divulge can be used against you in a court.

What if they did not say they want to kill themselves, but just ASKED the question?

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:43

The it is purely research. Like I said earlier there is also no way they can prove anything against you unless there is a voice recording and a voice recording of a phone call is not legal without a notification of a recording being made or a disclaimer thereof. So in legally there is not much they can do. All you have to do is listen to the guy saying "this call might be recorder for quality and/or legal purposes"

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:44

We did the issue of responsibility in engineering ethics. There is also a point where foresight or what would typically be the "right action" becomes unreasonable. if the law or the judges in this case feels that something would have been an unreasonable expectation, they are likely to le you off.

For example when the WTC towers were built, it would have been un reasonable to assume that some nutjob would fly a plane into it, and therefore no one is at fault for not making the building 747 proof.

jee · Post by **jee** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:48

Is giving out information the same as giving advice?

To use Drakonis' example - if someone asks for information on how to make a bomb, or information on poisons, or the itinerary of the Dalai Lama when he is in SA, how to hold a satanic blood ritual - those might all be "possible" potential risks.

Can one refuse information?

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:50

You can - you can tell them to come in and look it up for themselves. Then make sure you get them on camera - just in case

(yes yes I know there is a whole legal thing there but if you have security cameras - you will have a legal image)

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:57

Oh Tribble. The image of you and Jee toghether is nothing but legal IMHO

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:58

jee wrote:Is giving out information the same as giving advice?

To use Drakonis' example - if someone asks for information on how to make a bomb, or information on poisons, or the itinerary of the Dalai Lama when he is in SA, how to hold a satanic blood ritual - those might all be "possible" potential risks.

Can one refuse information?

yes, its a potential risk. somewhat suspicious. you ought to ask for more information before giving out the information. that way, you can say you took reasonable precautions.

Advice normally contains information.

To add to what the others have said: I did some youth councilling when i was still a christian. We were never allowed to give advice. only ask questions to get the person to probe what they were feeling. If someone told us they were being abused, or contemplating suicide, we had to call a senior councilor immediately.

jee · Post by **jee** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:58

I'm not so interested in the legal aspect - more the moral....

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 12:58

RuadRauFlessa wrote:Oh Tribble. The image of you and Jee toghether is nothing but legal IMHO

Now where did that come from?

And fyi - we have been - at a holiday resort

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:00

People will do what people will do - you are not morally wrong to provide them with information which they may misuse. That is their karma - not yours.

jee · Post by **jee** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:04

RuadRauFlessa wrote:Oh Tribble. The image of you and Jee toghether is nothing but legal IMHO

oi! get your harsings out of the switchboard and into heaven!

tribbs - so glad you did not post those photos

seeing as we are talking ethics here...

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:07

jee, the repercussions of which would be .... well you understand.

And I am glad you did not post those taken in the pool. I would simply have died.

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:15

jee wrote:I'm not so interested in the legal aspect - more the moral....

hmmm, I can give you an answer in terms of ethical theory.

one can say its your duty to always tell the truth, no matter what. (this is part of the Kantian view on ethics)
but one can also say that the consequences to giving someone plans to build a bomb or telling them how fast they will bleed are that they'll very likely bomb someplace or kill themselves. (this is consequentialism)
You can also see that blowing up something or slitting ones wrists would not maximise utility( IE make the largest number of people happy). This is utilitarianism.
There is Virtue ethics which basically says that a person makes virtuous decisions because they are of good character.

Ultimately, what it comes down to, is that one cannot make a sound ethical decision with out adequate information.

So yes, i think its ethically(morally?) bad to give the guy the information. but if someone phoned me and asked me, i'd probably give them the information either because i'm not thinking "i must not tell people who want to die how fast they'll bleed out" and because i'd probably panic.

(And although i tend to subscribe to the Kantian View of ethics, its a little irrational).

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:20

Ow come on ladies. That is information you don't need worry about any moral implications (for the younglings that is

)

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:27

Nope - I have to agree with jee here. It would be morally and ethically wrong to post those photos. Anything that would have a detrimental effect on the mental and physical health of the posters - should be avoided at all costs.

RuadRauFlessa · Post by **RuadRauFlessa** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:41

Why are you a shy kitty cat?

Prime · Post by **Prime** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:42

Tribble wrote:Nope - I have to agree with jee here. It would be morally and ethically wrong to post those photos. Anything that would have a detrimental effect on the mental and physical health of the posters - should be avoided at all costs.

Surely its up to us to decide if they are detrimental to ur health

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:49

Aren't most cats? Besides - I never took the photos. So you are asking the wrong party

Tribble · Post by **Tribble** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:52

Prime wrote:
Tribble wrote:Nope - I have to agree with jee here. It would be morally and ethically wrong to post those photos. Anything that would have a detrimental effect on the mental and physical health of the posters - should be avoided at all costs.
Surely its up to us to decide if they are detrimental to ur health

Nope - history has shown that young men invariably make decisions that are harmful to their health.

Post by **Drakonis** » 31 Mar 2009, 13:57

History has also shown that most of them survive those decisions...

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