Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

[Prime]

cap your reply isnt the greatest and heres why. you say evolution can only take place in one imagination due to it happening 6 million years ago. the exact same can be said about creationist and there theory of some1 creating us.

because new forms of existing organisms are created everyday. and not by evolving from one organism to another. and why are their still apes if we "evolved" from them and are the "superior"( we are a plague on the planet actually) species and if species can control population based on food and evironmental conditions then how come we have overloaded and overpopulated this planet.

Most evidence for evolution is either lies, or plain asumptions. Thats why I dont even consider studying it.[/color] Its not even a good theory. If it was a bit more logical, then yes, its a good theory. I dont see logic in a simple cell growing into humans. And Id rather say that my great great great great great ... grandpa was created by God, than to say my great great great ... grandpa was a slime. WHOS YOUR DADDY?! Hey thats just me! Maybe evolutionists just like to brag about their family being spineless, mindless balls of snot! But of course you can believe what you want!

Maybe my Oreo cookie planetary theory is more logical than this!

Then how on earth can you contest it? You cannot argue over something you know nothing about! Debates require facts and a good debater will always know ALL the facts. In order to give a counter argument you must understand and know what your opponent is talking about. This statement just proof how narrow minded you are.

But my dear man, the Bible requires you to abandon all logic and believe in God even though there are no 'scientific' evidence to support His excistance. We only have a promise that you will be saved if you believe and serve Him. So why should logic be the base of anybody else's believes?

Logic is something you will just never get the hang of. Trust me.

And just for the record. I am a believer in God but I have long ago learned to take them blinkers of me eyes and see the world for what it realy is. A whole lot of experiences and knowledge.

and another load of "garbage" to deal with. why is the bible illogical?

we can never begin to grasp the concept of god. we cannot imagine how great he is or powerful. omnipresent, omnipotent etc. if you want to debate this create a new thread. or perhaps if you dare then post in the mainly chrstian thread. but i would sugest first you find CS Lewis's email address and have a discussion with him. perhaps your eyes will open. and your mind to.

@jee: if you think this thread is not going to bash religion then you are being niave. creation in almost every instance is linked to religion and namely christianity.

[QBM]

Anakha, the content of that article is pure speculation. That reasures me everytime I read "this happend 6 mil years ago", like its a fact. There's no recorded history even a fraction of that time ago. You have to imagine all this happening. Thats the only way it can happen: in your imagination.

The universe is bound by physics. As such we can to a certain extent predict the future. With the same tools we can look back. To say there is no recorded history is naive.

Core samples, rock layers, half lifes, dna clocks, rocks from the moon (no plate activity), fossilised ripples, meteorites, fossilised craters, etc.

[QBM]

because new forms of existing organisms are created everyday. and not by evolving from one organism to another. and why are their still apes if we "evolved" from them and are the "superior"( we are a plague on the planet actually) species and if species can control population based on food and evironmental conditions then how come we have overloaded and overpopulated this planet.

Which new organisms are you speaking of? Where do they come from?

Why are there still apes? This shows you have very little if any understanding of evolution and as such it is pointless to "debate" with you.

[Prime]

and with half the fossil records indicating evolutions is not possible...

wel at the rate were going science is predicting the destruction of the earth. so is god. just look at revelation. in fact God has planned the demise of this civilisation. i say the sooner the better

[Prime]

because new forms of existing organisms are created everyday. and not by evolving from one organism to another. and why are their still apes if we "evolved" from them and are the "superior"( we are a plague on the planet actually) species and if species can control population based on food and evironmental conditions then how come we have overloaded and overpopulated this planet.

Which new organisms are you speaking of. Where do they come from?

Why are there still apes? This show you have very little understanding of evolution and as such it is pointless to "debate" with you.

well it sounds like you don't have an answer and are avoiding the question

are you naive. go into a maternity ward of any hospital. new people are born everyday. new mammals, reptiles. ETC. :stupid:

there is nothing to understand with evolution. it is a pile of senseless lies. even you evolutionists ant agree with each other.

funny how there is very little to disagree with when it come to creation.

[QBM]

and with half the fossil records indicating evolutions is not possible...

wel at the rate were going science is predicting the destruction of the earth. so is god. just look at revelation. in fact God has planned the demise of this civilisation. i say the sooner the better

Which fossil records shows this?

Yes the earth will be destroyed. I assume you mean by our actions which will not destroy all life just "ours".

If by chance we don't there is also a good chance a large meteorite will take us out and if we survive that the sun will get us. Well actually it probably won't since it has 5+ billion years left and we are scheduled to collide with Andromeda in ~3 billion years and we probably won't make it through that.

None of that is proof of God and doesn't fit Revelations description unless you don't take it literally and even then its a stretch but we can't do that now can we?

Also which Revelation should I look at? The one that was included because it was "scarier"?

[QBM]

because new forms of existing organisms are created everyday. and not by evolving from one organism to another. and why are their still apes if we "evolved" from them and are the "superior"( we are a plague on the planet actually) species and if species can control population based on food and evironmental conditions then how come we have overloaded and overpopulated this planet.

Which new organisms are you speaking of. Where do they come from?

Why are there still apes? This show you have very little understanding of evolution and as such it is pointless to "debate" with you.

well it sounds like you don't have an answer and are avoiding the question

are you naive. go into a maternity ward of any hospital. new people are born everyday. new mammals, reptiles. ETC. :stupid:

there is nothing to understand with evolution. it is a pile of senseless lies. even you evolutionists ant agree with each other.

funny how there is very little to disagree with when it come to creation.

You said new forms which would imply something else. I don't think it is any secret that we reproduce. In fact it is one of the foundations of evolution. What is it evolutionist disagree on exactly?

How many denominations of christianity are there again?

[TheAlteredState]

Evolution isn't some quick thing.
It's not like your son is going to have wings when he is born or something. It takes thousands of years, if not, more!

Although it would be cool if we had "Special Abilities" like all the people in Smallville! lol :onfire:

[QBM]

Evolution isn't some quick thing.
It's not like your son is going to have wings when he is born or something. It takes thousands of years, if not, more!

Although it would be cool if we had "Special Abilities" like all the people in Smallville! lol :onfire:

In a sense those "special abilities" will come though likely not from evolution but genetic engineering to fill a need for specialized human for thing like space travel.

Drastic changes through evolution are not likely to happen again without a large change in enviroment and a bottleneck in population.

[Prime]

Evolution isn't some quick thing.
It's not like your son is going to have wings when he is born or something. It takes thousands of years, if not, more!

Although it would be cool if we had "Special Abilities" like all the people in Smallville! lol :onfire:

In a sense those "special abilities" will come though likely not from evolution but genetic engineering to fill a need for specialized human for thing like space travel.

Drastic changes through evolution are not likely to happen again without a large change in enviroment and a bottleneck in population.

Does it matter how many denominations of christanity there are. they all have the same beleifs. one and one faith. those denominations of chrstianity exist becuse of various circumstances like the reformations and different global situations and locations.

if it were gradual changes the fossil records would show it. but they dont.

so as i understand it they changed their theory to macro evolution-sudden changes. but this doesn't fit the fossil records either.

theres something most evolutonists disagree on. and its an argument against your point. so why dont you evolutionists make up your minds and stop changing your theory's. and im still waiting for answers to my post on page 7 i think it was.

[QBM]

Does it matter how many denominations of christanity there are. they all have the same beleifs. one and one faith. those denominations of chrstianity exist becuse of various circumstances like the reformations and different global situations and locations.

if it were gradual changes the fossil records would show it. but they dont.

so as i understand it they changed their theory to macro evolution-sudden changes. but this doesn't fit the fossil records either.

theres something most evolutonists disagree on. and its an argument against your point. so why dont you evolutionists make up your minds and stop changing your theory's. and im still waiting for answers to my post on page 7 i think it was.

No they do not all believe the same thing. Also many many denominations were formed because they believed differently than the "parent church". Do you believe in the trinity?

The last part shows you have absolutely no understanding of how Scientific Process works.

You keep saying "doesn't fit the fossil records" "doesn't fit the fossil records". There is not a complete fossil record or we wouldn't be having this debate.

I know what definately doesn't fit the fossil record is a literal interpretation of the Bible.

If by your questions on page 7 you mean your copy/ paste of an arguement that has already been thouroughly debunked that you most likely don't even understand I provided links for you.


I would suggest you learn more about your sacred Book and
physics, geology, theory of evolution etc. so that you can make some type of competent arguement. There are people who can effectively argue both points but you my friend are not one of them. As I said before your logic is scary........

Oh and The Apocalypse of John has already happened with the fall of Rome

[Prime]

dude i dont need crap from you. i believe the bible completely, if you dont or have a problem with that then tell someone who cares.

dude most of the stuff i posted none ever responded to. or are you not with it or something. and yes a few points had been mentioned before. besides. i dont need you to tell me what to believe in.

and some of your links contain absolute garbage.


what about the suns diameter. you yourself said that by examing the way things occur we can look at the futur and see into the past. well then if the sun is shrnking at the moment and will be shrinking in the future then it must have been shrinking in the past. your own arguements down make sense

go back to page 7.

or the theory of infinte complexity. or the laws of probability or the second law of thermo dynamics.


the odds of the big bang occuring are the same odds as a monkey typing out the whole history of the unniverse on a typewriter by accident.

well?

evolution is a load of garbage. define a complete fossil record. would it be one that fits your stupid little thoery that you people and some scientist have changed almost a million times. at the rate your theory is changing people will not even consider it in 100 years time. oh wait i think the end of the world might actually have come.

ive made plenty of competent arguements. i suggest you have a living relationship with God before you question the bible and actually experience gods awesome power before you try to understand him (which you wont) or try to even grasp the power of god.

[Prime]

Oh and The Apocalypse of John has already happened with the fall of Rome

really?(and note the sarcasm) :stupid:


well clearly you haven't read revelation. because the fall of rome wouldn't fit the time frame of revelation. and nor would the events.
when you know a bit more about the new testament and are actually knowledgeable to talk about it come back and argue. and not with stuff you've picked up from the internet.

basically if you dont believe something in the bible you are calling God a liar.

[QBM]

dude i dont need crap from you. i believe the bible completely, if you dont or have a problem with that then tell someone who cares.

dude most of the stuff i posted none ever responded to. or are you not with it or something. and yes a few points had been mentioned before. besides. i dont need you to tell me what to believe in.

and some of your links contain absolute garbage.


what about the suns diameter. you yourself said that by examing the way things occur we can look at the futur and see into the past. well then if the sun is shrnking at the moment and will be shrinking in the future then it must have been shrinking in the past. your own arguements down make sense

go back to page 7.

or the theory of infinte complexity. or the laws of probability or the second law of thermo dynamics.


the odds of the big bang occuring are the same odds as a monkey typing out the whole history of the unniverse on a typewriter by accident.

well?

evolution is a load of garbage. define a complete fossil record. would it be one that fits your stupid little thoery that you people and some scientist have changed almost a million times. at the rate your theory is changing people will not even consider it in 100 years time. oh wait i think the end of the world might actually have come.

ive made plenty of competent arguements. i suggest you have a living relationship with God before you question the bible and actually experience gods awesome power before you try to understand him (which you wont) or try to even grasp the power of god.

What about the suns diameter? It has been shown to be cyclical. You are also assuming we completely understand the physics of the sun. We can't create miniature suns to play with and do experiments on. The suns size has no bearing on the half lifes which can be tested. Your logic is flawed.

I must ask you what you consider to be the big bang. I'd like to know how you come up with your odds too? In fact I would see it as impossible that it wouldn't happen. In fact this most likely isn't the first or the last universe viable or otherwise.

I wouldn't care which theory a complete fossil record proves I simply said we wouldn't be having this debate. However the arguement that because the record is not complete and scientist can't explain everything somehow dismisses evolutionary theory is foolish.

The whole thread here reminds me of Galileo and the Pope.

off to work........................

[QBM]

Oh and The Apocalypse of John has already happened with the fall of Rome

really? :stupid:


well clearly you haven't read revelation. because the fall of rome wouldn't fit the time frame of revelation. and nor would the events.
when you know a bit more about the new testament and are actually knowledgeable to talk about it come back and argue. and not with stuff you've picked up from the internet.

basically if you dont believe something in the bible you are calling God a liar.

I have to go to work but I will ask.....are you really sure you want to start debating the Bible with me?

[Prime]

*ripper hunni, read my previous posts - DON"T get upset if someone does not believe the same as you.. go find facts to prove him/her wrong - jee*

[QBM]

dued you started it and no i dont want to debate the bible because this is not the place and i believe everything in it. get over yourself. you started yourself down that road.

You believe in what? Your interpretation? Lets start simple. What is your interpretation of Revelation? You've attacked a theory you don't understand with your only defense being "I believe the Bible" so lets play. Lets see how much you know and understand the book you would throw away logic for.

[QBM]

Oh and The Apocalypse of John has already happened with the fall of Rome

really?(and note the sarcasm) :stupid:


well clearly you haven't read revelation. because the fall of rome wouldn't fit the time frame of revelation. and nor would the events.
when you know a bit more about the new testament and are actually knowledgeable to talk about it come back and argue. and not with stuff you've picked up from the internet.

basically if you dont believe something in the bible you are calling God a liar.

Wow your copy of the Bible has dates? Could you send me a copy I want to take a vacation the week before this all goes down.

FYI I have read Revelation and other apocalyptic books many times. I actually said the fall of Rome to see how far you would go with it. In fact since Revelation was written between 68-96 AD and the fall of Rome didn't occur until 476AD I don't see where there would be any conflicts with the time frame because from a futurist view the time frame is the future. I do not believe it describes the fall of Rome but earlier events anyway.

If you were not just parroting what someone else said you would have corrected me.

Of course I know what you meant by time frame. You want the later date of ~96AD to discount the possibility of the text referring to Nero. Well guess what it fits even better with Domitian.

Then you get into the necessity of writing in "code" due to political circumstances and throw in a little Jewish mysticism like 666 (Nero) and you have a book that read by someone of the future having no knowledge of the past assuming it to be prophetic in his time.


Am I the only one who believes such things? No it goes as far back as the Ebionites (real christians) though their version was slightly different.

Of course all Christians believe the same thing so it isn't possible right?

[Anakha56]

damn QBM u sure do have alot of knowledge...

here is something i thought of last night, because i know very little on this subject i am just asking questions to see what answers there are so please bear with me

Creationist beleive we were created by a higher being? right? if that is the case then who created the higher being? everything has to have a starting point somewhere, and that is where i think QBM alternate universe theory starts taking a hold because that does make sense in a wierd way.

Why cant both theories of evolution and creationism be combined? What if our universe was created by a higher being but with the ingredients for us to evolve to be our own unique society? how would that fit in to it all?

[jee]

Why cant both theories of evolution and creationism be combined? What if our universe was created by a higher being but with the ingredients for us to evolve to be our own unique society? how would that fit in to it all?

I think you hit the nail squarly on its head, Anakha

ripper, hunni, you cannot just say something is "garbage" without backing up those facts. Read the first post again.

Now I want you to go and follow the this thought process and then come back and let me know what you think. The Big Bang happened. But (and you will have to google or clusty for sites, there are some real great ones the theory is that God created the Big Bang - look at the hebrew word for "strecthed" - thats what happened to the Big Bang - it strecthed the universe.

Also read this site.

[QBM]

damn QBM u sure do have alot of knowledge...

here is something i thought of last night, because i know very little on this subject i am just asking questions to see what answers there are so please bear with me

Creationist beleive we were created by a higher being? right? if that is the case then who created the higher being? everything has to have a starting point somewhere, and that is where i think QBM alternate universe theory starts taking a hold because that does make sense in a wierd way.

Why cant both theories of evolution and creationism be combined? What if our universe was created by a higher being but with the ingredients for us to evolve to be our own unique society? how would that fit in to it all?

Oh well lets throw modesty to the wind and just say this is my passion (also my main reason for the internet).

No one (among the truely logical) is saying they can't be combined but "baby steps" my friend.....baby steps.

Outside of the universe is not the only place a god can reside.

He can be a product of the current universe. If you could design your own pets (possible in the future) would you? This ranges from a one and only supreme being to "aliens" creating us.

He can be a product of many universes. Who knows if all info is lost when universes collapse or decay. Surely over an infinate span of "time" the many universes could produce an entity that is "all knowing" and of course the "beginning and the end".

Also he can reside in "nothing"

Of course there are many other places for him to reside that no one can fathom..................

[jee]

Unfortunately QBM, Kronos is not interested in other forms of Creationists, only the Abrahamic *sigh* I personally think opening it up will make for so much more intelligent conversation

[QBM]

Unfortunately QBM, Kronos is not interested in other forms of Creationists, only the Abrahamic *sigh* I personally think opening it up will make for so much more intelligent conversation

I'm all for the Abrahamic arguement.....I just wish someone would make it.

You (kronos) also have to remember that there are a few versions of that arguement and of course other factors that play a role.

[jee]

True, hmmm I need to go to work.. I will think on that and see if I can make a decent counter argument.

[Kher-za]

Why cant both theories of evolution and creationism be combined? What if our universe was created by a higher being but with the ingredients for us to evolve to be our own unique society? how would that fit in to it all?

that's what i've been trying to say for a while already! Try and compromise to allow both theories to be true

hey guys, here's a little thought i had. i'm not pulling religion or anything into this but i found it quite interesting.

I'm not a Bible Fundi but i remember something being said about the Jews when they had Christ crucified. Someone said that their future generations would suffer for this. Does World War II ring a bell?

* once again i got ahead of myself, i know this isn't the place but i thought that i'd post this here because it refers to the bible, hence creation and so it would be relevent to this thread. *