Neon Genesis Evangelion (Spoilers)
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Neon Genesis Evangelion (Spoilers)
Not much to say, a modern classic. But to understand the end you may need some external thoughts. Duscuss the story here or post links to resources that will help. My first is my good friend the wiki
Animenfo
n the year 2015, half of the human race is dead, and the survivors face a terrifying last judgment from giant biotechnology experiments called Angels.
Within Tokyo-3 and the headquarters of the secretive organization called NERV, a special United Nations agency. A handful of teenagers are trained to pilot the colossal super-entities known as Evangelions and battle the Angels on their own terms... whatever the cost to their minds and souls.
Shinji Ikari, whose father heads the NERV team that developed and maintains the Evangelion., is thrust into a maelstrom of battle and events that he does not understand. Forced to plumb the depths of himself for the courage and strength to not only fight, but to survive...
Changed the title to reflect the spoilery nature of this thread - Synkronos
Animenfo
n the year 2015, half of the human race is dead, and the survivors face a terrifying last judgment from giant biotechnology experiments called Angels.
Within Tokyo-3 and the headquarters of the secretive organization called NERV, a special United Nations agency. A handful of teenagers are trained to pilot the colossal super-entities known as Evangelions and battle the Angels on their own terms... whatever the cost to their minds and souls.
Shinji Ikari, whose father heads the NERV team that developed and maintains the Evangelion., is thrust into a maelstrom of battle and events that he does not understand. Forced to plumb the depths of himself for the courage and strength to not only fight, but to survive...
Changed the title to reflect the spoilery nature of this thread - Synkronos
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/nuke2004/line1.jpg)
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It might be only anime, but it has a cool series title. ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Last edited by neon_chameleon on 05 Nov 2005, 18:30, edited 1 time in total.
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I loved it, but then, I am a sucker for any type of Robot
It was rather sad tho..
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
Aha, my first thought to jee :
The Eva's aren't mecha's! Remeber the pilots give them souls.
The 40 plates of armor is merely there to restrain them -
The beast has broken free from the armor that binds it to our will.
/Unit 1 went berserker and eats an Angel - Evangelion unit 1 has awoken - It has begun...
EDIT (Correction) :
That is 12 000 plates of fortified armor.
The Eva's aren't mecha's! Remeber the pilots give them souls.
The 40 plates of armor is merely there to restrain them -
The beast has broken free from the armor that binds it to our will.
/Unit 1 went berserker and eats an Angel - Evangelion unit 1 has awoken - It has begun...
EDIT (Correction) :
That is 12 000 plates of fortified armor.
Last edited by Rayne on 17 Nov 2005, 20:47, edited 1 time in total.
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@ Rayne.. Oh, I know its not mecha. but I love the huge mechanical feel of the evas.. yes, having the pilots bond so totally with their Evas changed the story to something far more ethereal.. and that is perhaps where the sadness of the series come from. I must admit that there are several undercurrents in the anime, but then, that is par for the course.
Riukzeklein nah, i'm not jealous... but i'm sure you enjoy them all. Why not take a photo of them and post it for the rest of us? Where did you buy them from?
Riukzeklein nah, i'm not jealous... but i'm sure you enjoy them all. Why not take a photo of them and post it for the rest of us? Where did you buy them from?
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
You lost me bru.
Nuke said to give links or refference to comments given.
I gave a comment, and backed it by exact quotas taken from the series itself, which I watched twice.
That explanation was revealed in the series as well as the movie Death And Rebirth, thus I still clearly remember it, as I've seen it 4x times.
It's called memory, not obsession.
Now get back on topic if you'd please.
EDIT : You can get 'em from animedirect, quite expensive though.
And jee yes, that is why I liked Asuka's final fight that much - She realised the force powering her Evangelion's AT-Field was her mother's soul.
And that scene before that where she was still hidden under water and struggled with her thoughts, eish man that was brilliant -
Asuka : I don't want to die. (repeated)
Mother : But you musn't die. - Do not die now. - (etc.)
...
Nuke said to give links or refference to comments given.
I gave a comment, and backed it by exact quotas taken from the series itself, which I watched twice.
That explanation was revealed in the series as well as the movie Death And Rebirth, thus I still clearly remember it, as I've seen it 4x times.
It's called memory, not obsession.
Now get back on topic if you'd please.
EDIT : You can get 'em from animedirect, quite expensive though.
And jee yes, that is why I liked Asuka's final fight that much - She realised the force powering her Evangelion's AT-Field was her mother's soul.
And that scene before that where she was still hidden under water and struggled with her thoughts, eish man that was brilliant -
Asuka : I don't want to die. (repeated)
Mother : But you musn't die. - Do not die now. - (etc.)
...
Mind you, my clever book says that Gainax, who made Evangelion, run out of money and did the final chapters in two weeks. That was then followed by the "real" finale "Death and rebirth". There was a movie edition "End of Evangelion" - a truely apocalypse.. and then anohter with yet another ending called "revival of Evangelion".
Rayne, mind.. one of my learned books calls Evangelion mecha....
Rayne, mind.. one of my learned books calls Evangelion mecha....
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
They are not mecha.
Evangelions are born from Lilith and Angels born from Adam.
They are living things, that is why both Eva Unit 1 (many times) and Eva Unit 2 (Asuka's death / moved without power) went berserker, and why the humans in the series are reffered to as Lillin, born from Lilith, which is why Rei returned to Lilith, and the last and 18th Angel, Kawuro, realized his misdoing / misjudgement when he reached the body of Lilith in Terminal Dogma, before Eva Unit 1 has bitten-off his head- the cloned body of Rei carried the sould of Lilith, hence she returned to her shell, but that's a diffirent topic altogether.
Bottom line is the 2 species are very much alike yet cannot co-exist. The explanation herefore is given in the ending The End Of Evangelion.
Yeah, it sounds complicated I know.
Evangelions are born from Lilith and Angels born from Adam.
They are living things, that is why both Eva Unit 1 (many times) and Eva Unit 2 (Asuka's death / moved without power) went berserker, and why the humans in the series are reffered to as Lillin, born from Lilith, which is why Rei returned to Lilith, and the last and 18th Angel, Kawuro, realized his misdoing / misjudgement when he reached the body of Lilith in Terminal Dogma, before Eva Unit 1 has bitten-off his head- the cloned body of Rei carried the sould of Lilith, hence she returned to her shell, but that's a diffirent topic altogether.
Bottom line is the 2 species are very much alike yet cannot co-exist. The explanation herefore is given in the ending The End Of Evangelion.
Yeah, it sounds complicated I know.
PS : Erm, I dunno about that Revival Of Evangelion movie hey.
The End Of Evangelion is erm, the end.
Death and Rebirth and The End Of Evangelion was infact made because GAINAX ran out of budget yes, but more so because the fans complained, and GAINAX themselves knew that a series with such a high regard had to come to a better conclusion.
The End Of Evangelion - The movie is a remake of the series ending. The first part Air is suppose to replace episode 25 while the second part My Heart For You is the complete ending of Evangelion.
Btw eish The End Of Evangelion was one serious mind-fck.
The End Of Evangelion is erm, the end.
Death and Rebirth and The End Of Evangelion was infact made because GAINAX ran out of budget yes, but more so because the fans complained, and GAINAX themselves knew that a series with such a high regard had to come to a better conclusion.
The End Of Evangelion - The movie is a remake of the series ending. The first part Air is suppose to replace episode 25 while the second part My Heart For You is the complete ending of Evangelion.
Btw eish The End Of Evangelion was one serious mind-fck.
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So sad... Unfortunately I haven't seen this one... Maybe this one can be a good start to original collections?
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There are countless confusing scenes throughout the series, hence we will need to know the specific part you guys (myself included) did not gasp.
So jamin, give an example of what you can remember, like from The End Of Evangelion, and we'll take it from there.
For example, I did not understand why the hell Shinji strangled Asuka at The End Of Evangelion, until a little browsing explained this (flashback) -
This is a part of the process of Complementation. There are several indications of this.
First of all, the scene itself is very surreal and does not feel right as a memory. It does not logically fit in the Evangelion timeline (it would probably have occurred somewhere between episodes 23 and 24). Shinji is not nearly desperate enough during this time to strangle Asuka, and I seriously doubt Asuka would stand there idely and be suffocated. Further, the cut of the spilled coffee pot is inserted into the Director's Cut of episode 24 (before the episode begins) but is used in a completely different context (Asuka's realization to Kaji is not coming back).
In the scene Asuka says, "You're afraid of Misato and the First... " which mirrors exactly what Shinji said in The End of Evangelion: Air, "I... I'm scared of both Misato and Ayanami..." before he masturbates to her comatose body. All signs point to this sequence being an expression of Shinji's frustration with Asuka, and also his feelings of guilt for what he did. Moments earlier Asuka's (or perhaps more specifically, the Asuka in Shinji's mind) confronts Shinji saying, "Idiot! I 'know' about your jerk-off fantasies of me. Do it again like usual... I'll even stand here and watch."
At the very end, he did it again (for real) -
Shinji awakes up on a desolate beach. Asuka - her arm and eye bandaged in a manner similar to Rei's - lies motionless next to him. Shinji, at the culmination of his love, hate, stress, frustration, etc. - begins to strangle her, only to stop when he feels the caress of her hand across his face. He breaks down, sobbing on top of her.
"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live
with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to
his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection
and denial."
Thus, in short, Shinji had a nervous breakdown earlier already, the fate of the world were layd in his hands. It was his way of confirming reality, as he has just chosen harsh, cruel reality above fake happiness. He realized he would still be alone, because even he wouldn't be there.
So jamin, give an example of what you can remember, like from The End Of Evangelion, and we'll take it from there.
For example, I did not understand why the hell Shinji strangled Asuka at The End Of Evangelion, until a little browsing explained this (flashback) -
This is a part of the process of Complementation. There are several indications of this.
First of all, the scene itself is very surreal and does not feel right as a memory. It does not logically fit in the Evangelion timeline (it would probably have occurred somewhere between episodes 23 and 24). Shinji is not nearly desperate enough during this time to strangle Asuka, and I seriously doubt Asuka would stand there idely and be suffocated. Further, the cut of the spilled coffee pot is inserted into the Director's Cut of episode 24 (before the episode begins) but is used in a completely different context (Asuka's realization to Kaji is not coming back).
In the scene Asuka says, "You're afraid of Misato and the First... " which mirrors exactly what Shinji said in The End of Evangelion: Air, "I... I'm scared of both Misato and Ayanami..." before he masturbates to her comatose body. All signs point to this sequence being an expression of Shinji's frustration with Asuka, and also his feelings of guilt for what he did. Moments earlier Asuka's (or perhaps more specifically, the Asuka in Shinji's mind) confronts Shinji saying, "Idiot! I 'know' about your jerk-off fantasies of me. Do it again like usual... I'll even stand here and watch."
At the very end, he did it again (for real) -
Shinji awakes up on a desolate beach. Asuka - her arm and eye bandaged in a manner similar to Rei's - lies motionless next to him. Shinji, at the culmination of his love, hate, stress, frustration, etc. - begins to strangle her, only to stop when he feels the caress of her hand across his face. He breaks down, sobbing on top of her.
"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live
with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to
his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection
and denial."
Thus, in short, Shinji had a nervous breakdown earlier already, the fate of the world were layd in his hands. It was his way of confirming reality, as he has just chosen harsh, cruel reality above fake happiness. He realized he would still be alone, because even he wouldn't be there.
Yeah for sure watch Death And Rebirth. When it starts, just after the opening credits, there's a scrolling text saying this is how the end should have been made. What they did was used old footage, and combined it with new in order to better explain it.
Anyways, this two pics (taken from the anime pic thread) goes with my prior post :
Evangelion Unit 1 went berserker and broke his restraints (the armour plating making them look mecha) :
(pic del)
The second part I'll make a little interesting.
Asuka arises from the ocean where her Eva laid hidden, after realizing her mothers soul powers her AT field, though still gone, she never left her, and always watched over her, always protected her :
(pic del)
So her fight started :
(pic del)
But then these guys showed-up - Eva 2 series - carrying S2 engines, allowing them a life of their own, not requiring pilots, and the ability to heal. Make no mistake though, Asuka defeated all 9 of them in less than 3 minutes, 20 seconds each, she dismembered them, broke them in half, you name it, she really fck'd-them-up. But, she ran out of power, and they all healed... :
(pic del)
Then one of the Eva weapons came flying at her. She stopped it with her AT field, but it deformed into an artificial Lance of Longinus, the only weapon known to successfully pierce an Angel's or Eva's AT field. The lance flied through Unit 2's head, piercing it just as Unit 2 ran out of power. Asuka felt every bit of the pain just as if the lance has pierced her own head. Unit 2 collapsed backwards, pinned by the lance. Yet, Asuka tried her best to stay alive, Eva Unit 2 went berserker and moved, strecthing his arm towards the sky whilst Asuka repeatedly said "I'll kill you..." :
(pic del)
That didn't help though, as the destroyed production model Eva's reactivated and began a self healing process that demonstrates the superiority of not having a human operator. They descended upon Evangelion Unit 2 and disembowel it, like so many flying buzzards on a dying carcass. Asuka felt every pain of being disemboweled as well :
(pic del)
And this is how she ended-up, which brings to my conclusion, a living carcass :
(pic del)
Remember Gendo Ikari's death? Look at Evangelion Unit 1 :
(pic del)
Remember also, Mitsato drove Shinji past the failed experimental Eva's graveyard, and in that scene explained how the Eva's came to be, ie man playing God.
Anyways, this two pics (taken from the anime pic thread) goes with my prior post :
Evangelion Unit 1 went berserker and broke his restraints (the armour plating making them look mecha) :
(pic del)
The second part I'll make a little interesting.
Asuka arises from the ocean where her Eva laid hidden, after realizing her mothers soul powers her AT field, though still gone, she never left her, and always watched over her, always protected her :
(pic del)
So her fight started :
(pic del)
But then these guys showed-up - Eva 2 series - carrying S2 engines, allowing them a life of their own, not requiring pilots, and the ability to heal. Make no mistake though, Asuka defeated all 9 of them in less than 3 minutes, 20 seconds each, she dismembered them, broke them in half, you name it, she really fck'd-them-up. But, she ran out of power, and they all healed... :
(pic del)
Then one of the Eva weapons came flying at her. She stopped it with her AT field, but it deformed into an artificial Lance of Longinus, the only weapon known to successfully pierce an Angel's or Eva's AT field. The lance flied through Unit 2's head, piercing it just as Unit 2 ran out of power. Asuka felt every bit of the pain just as if the lance has pierced her own head. Unit 2 collapsed backwards, pinned by the lance. Yet, Asuka tried her best to stay alive, Eva Unit 2 went berserker and moved, strecthing his arm towards the sky whilst Asuka repeatedly said "I'll kill you..." :
(pic del)
That didn't help though, as the destroyed production model Eva's reactivated and began a self healing process that demonstrates the superiority of not having a human operator. They descended upon Evangelion Unit 2 and disembowel it, like so many flying buzzards on a dying carcass. Asuka felt every pain of being disemboweled as well :
(pic del)
And this is how she ended-up, which brings to my conclusion, a living carcass :
(pic del)
Remember Gendo Ikari's death? Look at Evangelion Unit 1 :
(pic del)
Remember also, Mitsato drove Shinji past the failed experimental Eva's graveyard, and in that scene explained how the Eva's came to be, ie man playing God.
Last edited by Rayne on 07 Dec 2005, 11:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Remember you see a lot of spears piercing here as she streches her arm to the sky. I dont think it was alive after that anymore.
![Image](http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1351/untitled5lf.th.jpg)
Just a thought, seeing that Asuka died I dont think it was her on the beach. I think it was a creation in his mind. Out of the LCL he could 'extract' a human that was alive before the 3rd impact, like himself when he turned to LCL in the entryplug. But Asuka's soul was gone before that.
Any thoughts on that? My interpretation could be totaly wrong.
![Image](http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1351/untitled5lf.th.jpg)
Just a thought, seeing that Asuka died I dont think it was her on the beach. I think it was a creation in his mind. Out of the LCL he could 'extract' a human that was alive before the 3rd impact, like himself when he turned to LCL in the entryplug. But Asuka's soul was gone before that.
Any thoughts on that? My interpretation could be totaly wrong.
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/nuke2004/line1.jpg)
This is the scene where her arm is split in half (a moment before) [if I had a pc I could have now taken screencaps, which I will soon] :
(pic del)
I really liked Asuka...
Anyways, I disagree a little there - IMO that is indeed Asuka. Though there is a vast uncertainty whether it is just Asuka, or a reincarnation of Ayanami, Mitsato, and Asuka...
Remember, Shinji did not go through with the Human Complementation Project, spawned by Third Impact, as it was planned all along. The key to understanding those scnenes is to realise that the majority of scenes as well as flashbacks occurs only in Shinji's mind, not in reality.
LCL requires quite an explanation in itself. I will say this though - Asuka was not reduced to LCL by Ayanami (Lilith), she died before that.
Shinji awakes in a world that is without AT fields, an ambiguous world. Ayanami sitting on top of him with her hands passing through his chest as if they are not there, a world where We are all one. This is the world you wished for. Your world. When he asks if he has died, Ayanami tells him No. Everything has joined as one. She further tells him that this is the world that he had hoped for.
Shinji tells her that he doesn't believe that it is the world he had hoped for. Ayanami tells him, If you hope that other people exist again, your heart will separate everyone once more. But you will be frightened of other people, again. Shinji tells her It doesn't matter. When given a choice at the end of Complement Project, if he wanted mankind to return to reality or to complete the project, Shinji decided that a life in reality, no matter how painful, is better than a fake happiness -
Kaworu: AT-Field will harm you and others again, are you sure?
Shinji: That's fine.
And Third Impact failed.
He chose harsh reality over a fake hapiness. That is why Asuka was there, and why he strangled her, to make sure it's real.
EDIT : Forgot a very good explanation, sorry -
~Neither Yui, Rei nor Misato could do as a woman for Shinji. Asuka alone was the only girl on equal footing with him. So, Shinji desired / sought after Asuka. I'm afraid of Misato and Ayanami. However, Shinji's crude affection only hurt her. In the end, he used her as an object of lust / desire to soothe / console himself...~
Are they the only survivors? Maybe...
Is that really Asuka? IMO yes, because she was in her Eva when she died, and so Shinji was in his throughout Third Impact - they were protected, for it is not the body that matters, but the soul it carries.
(pic del)
I really liked Asuka...
Anyways, I disagree a little there - IMO that is indeed Asuka. Though there is a vast uncertainty whether it is just Asuka, or a reincarnation of Ayanami, Mitsato, and Asuka...
Remember, Shinji did not go through with the Human Complementation Project, spawned by Third Impact, as it was planned all along. The key to understanding those scnenes is to realise that the majority of scenes as well as flashbacks occurs only in Shinji's mind, not in reality.
LCL requires quite an explanation in itself. I will say this though - Asuka was not reduced to LCL by Ayanami (Lilith), she died before that.
Shinji awakes in a world that is without AT fields, an ambiguous world. Ayanami sitting on top of him with her hands passing through his chest as if they are not there, a world where We are all one. This is the world you wished for. Your world. When he asks if he has died, Ayanami tells him No. Everything has joined as one. She further tells him that this is the world that he had hoped for.
Shinji tells her that he doesn't believe that it is the world he had hoped for. Ayanami tells him, If you hope that other people exist again, your heart will separate everyone once more. But you will be frightened of other people, again. Shinji tells her It doesn't matter. When given a choice at the end of Complement Project, if he wanted mankind to return to reality or to complete the project, Shinji decided that a life in reality, no matter how painful, is better than a fake happiness -
Kaworu: AT-Field will harm you and others again, are you sure?
Shinji: That's fine.
And Third Impact failed.
He chose harsh reality over a fake hapiness. That is why Asuka was there, and why he strangled her, to make sure it's real.
EDIT : Forgot a very good explanation, sorry -
~Neither Yui, Rei nor Misato could do as a woman for Shinji. Asuka alone was the only girl on equal footing with him. So, Shinji desired / sought after Asuka. I'm afraid of Misato and Ayanami. However, Shinji's crude affection only hurt her. In the end, he used her as an object of lust / desire to soothe / console himself...~
Are they the only survivors? Maybe...
Is that really Asuka? IMO yes, because she was in her Eva when she died, and so Shinji was in his throughout Third Impact - they were protected, for it is not the body that matters, but the soul it carries.
Last edited by Rayne on 07 Dec 2005, 11:51, edited 3 times in total.
Btw Nuke (and everyone reading), do you know that Asuka's eyes are blue, and not brown on that beach?
Do you think it is possible for GAINAX, this series, possibly the best scripted anime ever created, to have let something like that slip?
I doubt that. Everything in this anime was perfectly planned. A great majority of events remain unexplained 'till this day, 10 years later.
But, what do you oke's think that implies?
She looks like Ayanami, bandaged over one eye and all... Yet, she act's like Asuka, the Asuka whe know, for when she saw Shinji crying on top of her after realizing what he was doing, he broke down and cried, and instead of showing sympathy (she did caress his face a moment before), she spoke and said How pathetic
See this anime seriously plays with your mind!
Do you think it is possible for GAINAX, this series, possibly the best scripted anime ever created, to have let something like that slip?
I doubt that. Everything in this anime was perfectly planned. A great majority of events remain unexplained 'till this day, 10 years later.
But, what do you oke's think that implies?
She looks like Ayanami, bandaged over one eye and all... Yet, she act's like Asuka, the Asuka whe know, for when she saw Shinji crying on top of her after realizing what he was doing, he broke down and cried, and instead of showing sympathy (she did caress his face a moment before), she spoke and said How pathetic
See this anime seriously plays with your mind!
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Hmm true, never noticed her eyes. Maybe it is a reincarnation of Ayanami, Mitsato and Asuka like you said(If I remember right Misato's eyes are brown). The 'real' Misato however could not be part of that seeing she also died before the earth turned to LCL(and we see that cross that was around her neck nailed to a wooden cross)
That another reason I think it is his creation. Out of lonelyness he created another human out of memories. And the 3 main woman in his life was Asuka, Misato and Rei(who was made out of his mother one could say)
That another reason I think it is his creation. Out of lonelyness he created another human out of memories. And the 3 main woman in his life was Asuka, Misato and Rei(who was made out of his mother one could say)
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