I need a second opinion on this build:

[FaeMinx]

Hi,
I'm needing some second opinions from more knowledgeable folk such as yourselves...
About a month ago my aging desktop died for the last time (I had been able to resurrect it a few times over the years, but it's about 9 years old and gone for good now).

So I set about the tedious process of figuring out which components go well together in order to get an optimal build for under R15000.
(The process was tedious because I am an artist, not a techy... and there was no one I could go to for advice).

The purpose of this new computer is to be:

1) A workstation for image editing (Photoshop CS3, Painter IX, 3D Studio Max, ZBrush) the input device I use for this is a Cintiq 12wx.

2) A Gaming Machine (I'm not a console fan - the last console I owned was a Sega Genesis!). I would like to be able to run all current titles on maxed-out settings... future proofing isn't soooo important, just so long as it runs both StarCraft II expansions without batting an eyelid.

3) A home entertainment system (I don't own a TV, or DVD player... and I'm not all that interested in Blu-Ray... yet).

So after much hair pulling and confused head-scratching, this is the build I decided on (with more than a little help from a couple of PC-Format Magazines):

Asus P8Z68-V Pro
http://www.wootware.co.za/asus-p8z68-v- ... board.html
R 2481

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz LGA1155 32nm Quad-Core
http://www.wootware.co.za/intel-core-i5 ... etail.html
R 2049

Cooler Master Hyper 612S Processor Cooler
http://www.nivo.co.za//buy~cooler.maste ... ler~p29936
R 523

G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 2X4GB DDR3-1600 Ripjaws X
http://www.wootware.co.za/g-skill-f3-12 ... emory.html
R 590

*OR*

G.Skill F3-12800CL7Q-8GBXM 4x2GB DDR3-1600 Ripjaws X
http://www.wootware.co.za/g-skill-f3-12 ... emory.html
R 980

Sapphire Radeon HD6950 1GB PCI-E Graphics Card
http://www.wootware.co.za/sapphire-rade ... etail.html
R 3194

Corsair TX650 V2 (12v: 636W) 80PLUS Bronze Power Supply
http://www.wootware.co.za/corsair-tx650 ... ready.html
R 1141

NZXT Phantom White Steel ATX Full Tower Gaming Computer Case
http://www.evetech.co.za/PC-Hardware/nz ... e-176.aspx
R 1199

SONY AD7260S 24x SATA DVD-Writer Black
http://www.wootware.co.za/sony-ad7260s- ... k-oem.html
R 169

Microsoft Sidewinder X3 Laser Gaming Mouse
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-sid ... pport.html
R 339

Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 DSP
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-com ... -keys.html
R 155

Dell Professional P2311H 23" LCD
http://www.wootware.co.za/dell-p2311h-2 ... nitor.html
R 1663

*OR*

Samsung SyncMaster BX2031 20” LED Monitor
http://www.nivo.co.za/buy~samsung.syncm ... tor~p24336
R 1369

*******************************************

Now you will notice that I left out the Hard Drive and OS... I already have 3 SATA Hard Drives, an 80GB Western Digital, 200GB Seagate, and 320GB Western Digital.... though they are old. I'm going to try clear out all the data on the 320GB, format it and use it as my main drive for the OS. I will buy more drives in the future.
P.s. I have no idea what RPM they are - there doesn't seem to be any specification on the labels (that I am able to decipher).

I also need advice on which version of Windows 7 I should go for - the cheaper the better, but I also don't want to shoot myself in the foot. (Also, where can I order it online for a good price?)

I found the RAM to be very confusing... is there any advantage in going for the more expensive quad channel setup I listed? (I know the downside is I won't be able to upgrade in the future, but surely 8GB will be more than sufficient?)

Now on to the monitors I listed... the Dell is LCD, larger - 23", with 1920x1080.
The Samsung is LED, smaller/thinner - 20", with only 1600x900.

Keep in mind I'll be upgrading from a crappy CRT that weighs about as much as a small car, and its maximum resolution was only up to 1600x(I forget the height, but it wasn't widescreen).

I'm leaning towards the Dell - higher resolution means more screen space which is great for image editing. Also, when I finally do jump on the Blu-Ray bandwagon, at least it will have the correct resolution for playback.

So is LED really so much better? I don't really care about saving electricity... but substantially better contrast and colour accuracy may sway me (artist remember), and with the lower resolution I'll be able to play games on max setting for longer before my system becomes outdated.

Better compatible components for about the same price would also be appreciated, just so long as there is a way for me to order them online or purchase them from PE (am currently residing in St. Francis Bay).

Thanks in advance for any advice / corrections you send my way.

Oh! As a final note, are any of you aware of an adaptor that will allow Phono-Plug inputs to go into either of those monitors? I have an Open Pandora Handheld UMPC that will be receiving sometime in the (hopefully near) future a TV-Out cable. It's a wonderful little device and its emulation capabilities are fantastic... but for two-player emulation (and homebrew), I really need to use a larger screen... and as I mentioned before, I don't own a TV.

[StarBound]

Ok here we go.

Ram - 2x4GB is the way to go. Your going for a socket 1155 cpu/mobo and not 2011 so you won't have access to quad channel ram in any case. You could also fill up your ram slots and go 16gb if your heavy into the photo editing.

CPU cooler - Drop it. Intel stock is good enough if your not overclocking and even on stock the i5/i7 1155 cpus are very strong.

CPU - The CPU is fine and will do the job you want. But again mind for photoshop and such editings you might want to consider going for the i7 2600.

OS - Nothing much to say here. Windows 7 64-bit home premium is good enough for everything and you need a 64-bit OS to take advantage of more than 4GB of combined ram.

Motherboard - What your going for is overly expensive for the job you want to do. I think going for a P67 board is the way to go.

You should look for the BX2330 Samsung LED. You really do want to go 1920x1080 and LED is better when it comes to colour contrast and vibrance.

You might also want to get a 750W power supply to. Just incase.

[SykomantiS]

Starbound is right on the money there. Good advice. I'd save up for a solid state drive after that if I were you- it's another 3 grand extra but it's probably the biggest upgrade you can do, once you have the rest in place.

Also, I haven't checked your prices, but Sybaritic have good service and good prices as well. Might do you good to check them out.

[Monty]

Throw in an extra 400odd rand and get yourself a HX or AX750 PSU - modular is awesome for cable management and helps keep the case cool.

Go for the cheaper RAM

I would also choose an MSI GTX560Ti over the 6950 - similar performance level and cheaper (I got mine for 2700is)

Get the 1080P screen.


And shop around. There are several online retailers, and they can have certain components at awesome prices, and others at meh prices - so compare each component's price on each site

[FaeMinx]

Oh dear... now I'm losing more hair!

Motherboard - What your going for is overly expensive for the job you want to do. I think going for a P67 board is the way to go.

You should look for the BX2330 Samsung LED.

You might also want to get a 750W power supply to. Just incase.

Could you recommend a P67 motherboard? A search has just left me completely confused. Will the on-board audio be as good?
I also haven't been able to find the monitor you are refering to. Do you have a link?
Is it really nescessary to get a 750w PSU? Someone else told me that without overclocking and with only one graphics card, i'm not likely to go over 500w...?


Intel Core i7-2600 3.4GHz LGA1155 32nm Quad-Core
http://www.wootware.co.za/intel-core-i7 ... etail.html
R 2862

*OR*

Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4GHz LGA1155 32nm Quad-Core
http://www.wootware.co.za/intel-core-i7 ... etail.html
R 2999

For only about R100 more I can get the K version which is better for overclocking yes? If i would like to try my hand at overclocking in a year or two, would it be better to stick with the motherboard I chose?

The i7 is almost a Grand more than the i5 2500k... How much of a difference will it make?

[StarBound]

For gaming it shouldn't make a difference but for photo editing it might make a difference as both are quad cores but i7 has hyperthreading meaning it works as if it is 8 cores. Gaming has no benefit atm.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/san ... 33-15.html

Have a look at the link and decide. For gaming the i5 will do the job well enough.

All that the Z68 board does is on chip graphics from your processor. Someone else with a socket 1155 might have more insight into which board to buy. But think the gigabyte UD3 might do the job or one of the Asus P67 Deluxe boards.

[SykomantiS]

No man Starbound, he's referring to K or no K.
if you're not going to overclock, take the i7 2600, not the 2600K. The difference here FaeMinx, is that the 'K' indicates the cpu has an unlocked multiplier- which you are only interested in if overclocking.

Regarding the monitor: what about the Samsung S23A350HS LED
Samsung product page

[KALSTER]

If the difference between the K and vanilla is R130 odd, then there is no reason not to go that route. These CPU's OC easily and with a good cooler you can expect 4GHz+ once you decide to OC.

With the mobo the onboard audio should be about the same quality between similarly priced boards.

You don't need expensive RAM to get good system performance, so 2x 4GB stick of 1600 or even 1333MHz of almost any brand will do nicely. They basically all come with lifetime warranty's anyway.

Agreed on you not needing a CPU cooler for now. You can get that once you decide to OC. Better to use your money to buy the best you can get now of the most important components.

With the monitor; yes, see if you can get both 23" and LED. If you really can't in your price range, rather go for the larger LCD than the smaller LED imo. But try for both. LG is a bit cheaper, but of similar quality. I think try for at least a DVI input, but preferably HDMI. Both will give you a better picture than D-Sub. Personally I'm perfectly happy with DVI as it gives the same quality as HDMI. HDMI only has the ability to carry Audio on the same cable, which you won't need for your monitor. Not sure what problems you might run in to with a lack of the HDMI encryption.

[FaeMinx]

This is my revised build:

Asus P8Z68-V Pro
http://www.wootware.co.za/asus-p8z68-v- ... board.html
R 2481

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz LGA1155 32nm Quad-Core
http://www.wootware.co.za/intel-core-i5 ... etail.html
R 2049

G.Skill F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 2X4GB DDR3-1600 Ripjaws X
http://www.wootware.co.za/g-skill-f3-12 ... emory.html
R 590

Sapphire Radeon HD6950 1GB PCI-E Graphics Card
http://www.wootware.co.za/sapphire-rade ... etail.html
R 3194

Corsair CP-9020003 TX750M, 750w Bronze Modular Power Supply
http://www.wootware.co.za/corsair-cp-90 ... upply.html
R 1377

CoolerMaster RC-692-KKN1 CM690 II Plus Mid-Tower Gaming Computer Case
http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/coole ... -3892.html
R 887

SONY AD7260S 24x SATA DVD-Writer Black
http://www.wootware.co.za/sony-ad7260s- ... k-oem.html
R 169

Microsoft Sidewinder X3 Laser Gaming Mouse
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-sid ... pport.html
R 339

Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 DSP
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-com ... -keys.html
R 155

Samsung S23A350HS LED LCD 23” Monitor
http://www.sybaritic.co.za/store/produc ... s_id=59136
R 2126

Windows 7 64-Bit Professional
http://purpleflytrading.co.za/shopping/ ... ts_id=8850
R 1446

*************************

I decided to stick with the Asus P8Z68-V Pro because of this review:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ ... board/1321
I like the idea of using the integrated graphics during casual use (I.e. when not gaming or editing)

and also because I still haven't been able to find a P67 board that's very much cheaper.

I'm also staying with the Core i5-2500K because it's a *hell* of a lot cheaper and coming from a single core system with 1GB of ram, I think it's performance will blow me away... From the benchmarks, in my opinion, the performance increase of the i7-2600 doesn't justify the price hike. I can always get an i7 later on (if I find my usage could use the extra threads and when the price drops).

You will see that I upgraded the PSU to 750w, which is also now modular.

I wasn't happy with NZXT Phantom case because it was too flashy and it's large size was a concern. I'm not getting a case for show - this is to be a functional machine. Will the CoolerMaster CM690 II provide sufficient space for all my components and provide decent airflow?

I decided to bite the bullet and get a decent 1920x1080 23" LED Monitor... The price is resonable yes?

And instead of Home Premium, I decided to go for Windows 7 64-Bit Professional because it will allow me to run my Windows XP Software (not being able to would be a tragedy)!

I found the MSI Graphics card mentioned:
MSI GeForce GTX560TI Hawk 1GB 256 Bit DDR5 PCI-E Graphics Card
http://www.wootware.co.za/msi-geforce-g ... -card.html
R 2917

This is only a R300 saving... How do these two cards compare?

I'm rather pleased because It looks like I'll be able to get exactly what I need (minus a decent Hard Drive) for just within my budget... the total comes to R14813.

EDIT:

You don't need expensive RAM to get good system performance, so 2x 4GB stick of 1600 or even 1333MHz of almost any brand will do nicely. They basically all come with lifetime warranty's anyway.

Do you have a link? Finding these things on my own is rather hard... I don't know what's good and what's not.

[StarPhoenix]

Faeminx, if you are looking for an attractive, yet understated case that is easy to work with, you could do worse than the Coolermaster Silencio. [But then I am a little biased in favour of this particular case]

Read all about it

Not convinced that REALLY need to spend that much on your motherboard.

[D3PART3D]

Not convinced that REALLY need to spend that much on your motherboard.

Indeed. How about this:
http://www.takealot.com/electronics/gig ... d,10794947
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/mother ... 3-review/1

The NZXT is for men who carry purses. The CM690 II is a great case, and "decent" is exactly how I'd describe the airflow.

You don't need a R3k SSD- if you have some spare cash getting a 60GB SSD is totally worthwhile - install your OS and editing software on it and you'll get the speed boost where it counts most.

[KALSTER]

Well, looking at a review HERE, it appears the 6950 is somewhat faster than the 560Ti. You can have a look there and see if you think the difference is worth it.

NVidia cards do come with PhysX though, which the AMD cards don't. From what I have heard, you would not be missing out on that much though. You might miss out on things like Cuda that is again NVidia specific and that you might use with Photoshop etc. On balance then, the 560Ti might be the better option. Though not as fast as the 6950, it is by no means a slouch and you should be very happy with it, especially with the rest of your system. The HAWK you have listed is a factory OC'ed version, which would close the gap somewhat to the 6950 in any case. In fact, THIS review confirms it.

As for RAM, those GSkill's you have listed are actually at a good price and are high quality. They would be a good choice.

By the way, as for your Pandora box, I think you'd need to get a converter box to convert it to a digital signal. They are expensive though. Found one HERE for R4.5k. Might as well get a cheap as dirt 32" HD ready LCD TV, second hand.

You don't need a R3k SSD- if you have some spare cash getting a 60GB SSD is totally worthwhile - install your OS and editing software on it and you'll get the speed boost where it counts.

+1 And with your Z68 board SSD caching feature, it'll speed up your HDD as well.

[StarBound]

The screen is fine. Go for the 560ti over the 6950. The 560ti is as fast as the Radeon 5870 which is faster than the Radeon 6970. The other thing is nvidia is a bit more stable with drivers. The MSI Hawk is also a good cooler meaning less noise.

[FaeMinx]

Ok, you convinced me to get a 60GB SSD!
So after placing my order, Wootware informed me that the motherboard I had chosen was no longer available, and instead had been replaced with the GEN3 version for pretty much an identical price! I think you will agree with me that now there is no question of the value of this board as I now have the option to upgrade to a 22nm processor later on.

Unfortunately the Hawk was out of stock.
I had to settle for a Gigabyte OC version which has a slightly lower overclock, but was also significantly cheaper. What do you guys think of this card? Anyways, it's too late now because everything's ordered and paid for. This is the card I'm going to be living with for the next few years.

The ram I had chosen also wasn't available - I went for something a bit better and a bit more expensive (and was also blue instead of red, which = win).

They also didn't have the Sidewinder X3 gaming mouse, and the alternatives of a similar price either lacked features I was looking for or looked totally inappropriate with my system (bright red! - eww), so seeing as I had saved money on the graphics card, I went with a mouse that both looked appropriate and seemed to have a good reputation - the Death Adder 3500. What do you think?

And lastly, I went with the DSP version of Windows 7 64Bit Pro... I could get it with Wootware and save on shipping. The downside to the DSP version they told me was that the license would be locked to my motherboard, and that if I swapped out too many components I might have to contact Microsoft and explain what I had done so they could issue me a new Key. Not a major issue if you ask me...

So this is my *FINAL* build. Everything should be arriving in the next few days... and after painstakingly reading through the manuals for every component (*always* RTFM! ) I will set about putting together my first Custom Build PC! Exciting times!

P.s. Ironically the only games I have to test my new system with will be Spore, Oblivion, and StarCraft II (which only ran at about 15-17fps on low settings 1280x800 on my old system... but I just had to have it! It's StarCraft 2!!! )

***************************
ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/GEN3 LGA1155 ATX
http://www.wootware.co.za/asus-p8z68-v- ... board.html
R 2469

Intel Core i5-2500K 3.3GHz LGA1155 32nm Quad-Core
http://www.wootware.co.za/intel-core-i5 ... etail.html
R 2049

G.Skill F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM 2x4GB DDR3-1600 CL8 Ripjaws-X
http://www.wootware.co.za/g-skill-f3-12 ... emory.html
R 799

Gigabyte GeForce GTX560Ti OC 1GB
http://www.wootware.co.za/gigabyte-gefo ... etail.html
R 2499

OCZ Agility 3 SATA III 2.5" 60GB Internal Solid State Drive
http://www.wootware.co.za/ocz-agility-3 ... drive.html
R 945

Corsair CP-9020003 TX750M, 750w Bronze Modular Power Supply
http://www.wootware.co.za/corsair-cp-90 ... upply.html
R 1377

CoolerMaster RC-692-KKN1 CM690 II Plus Mid-Tower Gaming Computer Case
http://www.landmarkpc.co.za/store/coole ... -3892.html
R 887

SONY AD7260S 24x SATA DVD-Writer Black
http://www.wootware.co.za/sony-ad7260s- ... k-oem.html
R 169

Razer Death Adder 3500, Black with Blue LED
http://www.wootware.co.za/razer-death-a ... -pack.html
R 621

Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 DSP
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-com ... -keys.html
R 155

Samsung S23A350HS LED LCD 23” Monitor
http://www.sybaritic.co.za/store/produc ... s_id=59136
R 2126

Microsoft DSP Windows 7 Professional - 64bit
http://www.wootware.co.za/microsoft-dsp ... 64bit.html
R 1430

***************************

As a last question... I'll probably find this out when I read the manuals, but do you need a dedicated SSD for the caching feature (that speeds up ordinary spin drives)? In other words, using my SSD for my OS and productivity software means that I won't be able to use the caching feature right?

EDIT: Looking at my case, it appears I won't be able to utilize the front 2xUSB3 that's available on my motherboard. Correct? Is there any way around this?

[StarBound]

I don't think I have ever use SSD caching. Make sure when installing windows though that your SSD is running in AHCI mode. If you replace your board and it wont activate simply use the phone activation. My boards been replaced 3 times and every time I couldn't activate online.

Prepared to be blown away in starcraft 2 as you will get 60fps on ultra detail at 1920x1080.

Since you have an SSD you will need to disable the pagefile, disable indexing, disable superfetch and disable defrag.

[FaeMinx]

If you replace your board and it wont activate simply use the phone activation. My boards been replaced 3 times and every time I couldn't activate online.

No problem!

Prepared to be blown away in starcraft 2 as you will get 60fps on ultra detail at 1920x1080.

Sweeet!!

Make sure when installing windows though that your SSD is running in AHCI mode.
Since you have an SSD you will need to disable the pagefile, disable indexing, disable superfetch and disable defrag.

Thanks! I had no idea I needed to do this... You can be sure I'll be back here asking questions If I have any problems figuring out how.

[Monty]

This is the MSI card I was recommending: http://www.wootware.co.za/msi-geforce-g ... etail.html

I have it, it is clocked to 975 and 4500 and runs very cool and quiet, which is what I like.

With you SSD, have a look at this article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd ... ,2911.html

Well, looking at a review HERE, it appears the 6950 is somewhat faster than the 560Ti. You can have a look there and see if you think the difference is worth it.

The problem with this review is they compared the 2GB 6950 to the 1GB 560Ti. The 1GB of both cards compete very closely with each other

[FaeMinx]

This is the MSI card I was recommending: http://www.wootware.co.za/msi-geforce-g ... etail.html

I have it, it is clocked to 975 and 4500 and runs very cool and quiet, which is what I like.

Are you sure? Wootware lists the clock speed of that card at 880Mhz and 4200Mhz respectively...

This is probably a noob question, but is one able to overclock a Graphics Card oneself?

[SykomantiS]

Yes, but if one has to ask, I'd suggest one rather avoid doing that

(At least not until one has done some research on the subject)

[DarkStar]

May I hijack this thread for an almost identical question?

[KALSTER]

The problem with this review is they compared the 2GB 6950 to the 1GB 560Ti. The 1GB of both cards compete very closely with each other

Though he is getting the HAWK, which is another thing altogether.

Edit: Nevermind. See now the HAWK was out of stock.


Enjoy your rig man! I think you'll be blown away!

[FaeMinx]

May I hijack this thread for an almost identical question?

I don't mind. ... However, I'm not sure on the policies and attitude of the mods here... But if it's a very similar question it could be informative and help others reading this thread later on. The more info the better I always say!

With you SSD, have a look at this article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd ... ,2911.html

Wow, what a fantastic article! I imagine I'll only be doing the tweaks that free up space. With 8Gb of Ram, do you think it's wise to disable the page-file...? Or should I rather be responsible and monitor my Ram usage for a few weeks first (I think so).

@KALSTER: Thanks! I think my jaw will be hanging open for quite some time after I get everything set up and working... Especially when I get around to buying Skyrim.
I wish I could find out how the card I had to settle for compares with the Hawk... I'm guessing only a 2-5fps drop on average... am I over or underestimating the performance difference here?

P.s. Can anyone give me some pointers on how I can utilize the two front USB3 ports on my motherboard? My case specifications tell me it only has two front USB2 ports.

[StarBound]

I'm running off 8gb ram and havent had any problems with new programs or games. Older games however might moan and grown at the concept but give them a little -nopaging command or something and they are non the wiser.

The reason you disable the pagefile is to reduce the wear and tear on your ssd. On a MLC SSD you should get around 10,000 writes a cell so lets say 60gb x10,000 = 600TB / 600 000GB of writing lifetime.

For Skyrim I recommend getting the high res texture pack and from steam workshop get the more grass, better cities, and realistic water textures mods. For front USB3 you need a case bracket. USB3 might be compatible with USB2 but the cables used are completely different.

[Ron2K]

May I hijack this thread for an almost identical question?

You may, but keep in mind that your question will only be read by people following this thread. Unless you are totally sure that you want to limit your potential audience in this way, rather start a new one.

[Monty]

This is the MSI card I was recommending: http://www.wootware.co.za/msi-geforce-g ... etail.html

I have it, it is clocked to 975 and 4500 and runs very cool and quiet, which is what I like.

Are you sure? Wootware lists the clock speed of that card at 880Mhz and 4200Mhz respectively...

This is probably a noob question, but is one able to overclock a Graphics Card oneself?

By it, I meant I have overclocked my card to 975 and 4500