the (mainly) non-Christians thread.

[lancelot]

Does it matter, all threads are christian bashing threads.

[hamin_aus]

I'd like to bash other religions, but there aren't any on this forum

[jee]

Does it matter, all threads are christian bashing threads.

No my dear dear Rustbucket... some sarcasm from the infidels, some convoluted debates from the reprobates... but also a really search for understanding, me thinks

oh, and of course, hamin huns is too scared to bash my religion... oh wait... he is not sure of what it is *grins*

[-Prometheus-]

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[-Prometheus-]

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[Prime]

Prime, the problem is that you (and a few others) see people doing this and that and you generalise that that is the way things are. You preach about religions, well actually you can only show examples of individuals exhibiting intolerance, and then show your own intolerance towards the majority of religions by doing that. You are falling for the same trap. I can easily see your behaviour as that of the majority of atheists/agnostics but I don't, because I know better. At the same time I don't see the behaviour of the people you hold up as examples as the behaviour of the majority.

Believe it or not I see the same problems that you do. The Post and Courier reports a survey that many christians don't even go to church. Other previous surveys also agree on a number of around 40% of Americans going to church so as the majority see themselves as christians we can get a picture of around half not going to church regularly or at all without overreporting taken into account. So your argument already fails to apply to more than half of the people you make blanket statements about. So should I reject it outright based on your logic and extreme views or am I capable of being my own person that can make my own choices?

Yes, I do generalise. I have some good christian friends who are nothing like this. unfortunately they are the minority of the christians I have had to listen to and deal with in the last 9 years.

My problem is with organisations feeding the sort of mentality mentioned in my earlier post to youngsters. I mentioned corner stone, YWAM and REMA as 3 examples. But it's not just christianity, it happens to other groups as well, muslims and jews are prime examples. Hell, even groups of athiests propagate it.

Jamin raised the flaw in your argument about having to go to church to qualify as a christian. We also can't assume that all those people were committed christians, not the average fence sitter but thats pure speculation.

Anyway, I was speaking from my own (jaded) experience in my previous post.

Edit: I see more things to respond too. maybe tomorrow when I'm done writing and studying.

[-Prometheus-]

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[hamin_aus]

That is without even considering that they are mostly of ministers or preachers and you can't just apply their view to the whole congregation.

So when you go to church you pay no heed to the teachings of your priest/pastor/minister Bad Christian! No salvation for you

Your counter argument is so ludicrous that it's almost not worth the effort of refuting.

It's like saying Jacob Zuma is a douchebag, but the ANC are actually a great bunch of guys, so vote for JZ in the next election.
The man at the top represents the organization. If he is getting it wrong, everyone below him is along for a ride on the failboat until they get rid of him and replace him with someone who better represents the majority.
If a priest/pastor/minister is a bigot and his congregation let him preach bigotry, then they can be seen as bigots, or at least passive supporters of bigotry.

When I ponder the existence of God, it is a general all-purpose God, not specifically the Christian one.

So you spend more time thinking about religion then than the religious.

No, I definitely don't. In fact, why did you quote me as saying that That was moolean!

Although I did spend a lot of time on the question in my younger days, but I came to the conclusion that 99% of the population were deluding themselves in my late teens, and since then any time I do spend thinking about the topic and even discussing it with others (like in this thread) just seems to reinforce my conclusions from all those years ago. We may not be able to prove or disprove God, but looking objectively at what we do know, it seems more likely that He doesn't exist.

If someone wants to believe the bible there is more than enough evidence in comparative history.

That's a misleading statement. There is evidence confirming many of the people and places mentioned in the bible, that is all.

Also wiki, you do believe what it says don't you?

Wiki bases it's estimates off a publication called the World Christian Encyclopaedia...
Yeah, no bias there!
Birthrates in Islamic countries speak for themselves.

[-Prometheus-]

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[hamin_aus]

In fact your ANC example is ludicrous. Most of the people in the ANC that I looked at are douchebags so I can indeed conclude that they are mostly douchebags.

Yes, of course they are, but then as an organisation of douchebages, the ANC and any religious organisation have lots in common

We don't know squat.

If we don't know squat, we should all believe squat, correct? No?

]And you conclude from that that everything else is false because it sounds ludicrous to you. There's a lot of evidence confirming that as well. It's your bias causing you to dismiss it.

I didn't say it sounded ludicrous, I said that it was misleading...
Just because we can confirm that that the red sea mentioned in the Bible exists, is that proof that Moses parted it and lead the Israelites through? Why is this event not in any Egyptian mythology.
Surely one of their Pharaohs and his army being swallowed up by a sea would be an event worthy of noting. And those Egyptians were known for jotting everything down... yet they missed this event? And the fact that a mass slave revolt/runaway occurred...
No evidence of that in their history - must have been a cover-up - red-seagate

[Tribble]

Clever quip Jamin.

You do know that neither of you are going to get anywhere with each other, don't you?! You are already going in circles. I do understand -Prometheus's- need to convert you as I understand your need to set him straight.

-Prometheus- one thing you need to know is that many of us who left Christianity were hurt/offended/disillusioned by the actions of Christian religious leaders or people with influence in the church. We did not look at ordinary people and judge them - we looked at people leading them and saw where they were leading the people. Even the Bible tells you not to question - but to have faith. We questioned and we found the answers lacking. For us the usual answers the leaders of the church give are not enough. We cannot just believe or have faith - we don't believe that the Bible is untainted by humans - we don't believe that it is the direct Word of God. It was written by man and we believe that man wrote it as he (man) wanted it written. Arguing that we mustn't judge all Christians the same is meaningless as we don't. We are saying that no one can answer the questions we have with answers we find believable. And as most of what you believe is taught through faith - you cannot do that either.

And this thread is not about attacking Christianity as some think - but discovering the other belief systems out there - even if that belief system is that there is none. Many of us are undecided and searching for something that feels right. Some are lucky and already know what they believe.

[hamin_aus]

You do know that neither of you are going to get anywhere with each other, don't you?!

I disagree.
I fine his ideas are intriguing and I wish to subscribe to his newsletter...

[senile]

Interesting. She's the bride of satan

The Song “Alejandro”.... Sung by Lady Gaga

Very subtle the devil sneeks into our lifes to get his dirty feet in the door to steal and destroy souls...
We don’t even realise it – and just by singing together with the lyrics of a seemingly ‘innocent’ song with a nice tune, we open the door wider for his evil spirit!!
‘Alejandro’ means: Mans defender and protector’ (GOD).
‘Fernando’ means: Ardent for peace (JESUS).
‘Roberto’ means: Bright or shiningly frame (HOLY SPIRIT).
‘Babe’ is the same as ‘Child’
"Don't call my name, don't call my name, Alejandro(GOD).
I'm not your child, I'm not your child, Fernando (JESUS) Don't call my name, don't call my name, Roberto (HOLY SPIRIT) Alejandro. Alejandro(GOD), Just let me go."
-Lady Gaga-
People, please stop listening to Lady Gaga; real name “Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta”, Encourage especially your children and grand children not to listen to this women‘s music!
She sold her soul to the devil for fame and fortune..
8mil followers on twitter, top selling artist and the “icing on the cake”
top winner at the Grammy’s: See herebelow This is clearly the devil at work...


I'm not your babe
I'm not your babe, Fernando

Don't wanna kiss, don't wanna touch
Just smoke my cigarette and shush.
Don't call my name, Roberto

Alejandro
Alejandro
Ale-ale-jandro
Ale-ale-jandro (2)

Don't bother me
Don't bother me, Alejandro
Don't call my name
Don't call my name, Bye Fernando
I'm not you're babe
I'm not you're babe, Alejandro
Don't wanna kiss, don't wanna touch,
Fernando

Don't call my name
Don't call my name, Alejandro
I'm not you're babe
I'm not you're babe, Fernando

Don't wanna kiss don't wanna touch.
Just smoke my cigarette and shush.
Don't call my name
Don't call my name
Roberto.

Alejandro
Alejandro
Ale-ale-jandro
Ale-ale-jandro (2)

People please stop listening to Lady Gaga; real name Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta, she is the BRIDE OF SATAN and through her music she wants to catch peoples souls. Encourage especially your children and grand children not to listen to this women‘s music. Please I beg of you take this as serious as possible. Thanx


Sold her soul to the devil for fame and fortune.. 8mil followers on twitter, top selling artist and the “icing on the cake” top winner at the Grammies.
This is clearly the devil at work...

Carried on a cross ,how DEMONIC, look at the men carrying the cross they have small horns on their shoulders…

Hatching from an egg, signifying the cold blooded re-birth


Implanted horns on her shoulders…& cheeck bone, transformed in the BRIDE OF SATAN

[Sojourn]

ok.

[JollyJamma]

Written by:
1) Either a troll (Most likely)
2) Someone who's given up on spam mail and is getting other people to do it for them
3) A jealous tool
4) A really big bible basher (least likely).

[Prime]

epic LOLs

[chowzen]

For all that money and fame, I would happily sell my *soul - how does one contact satan again?

[KALSTER]

Apparently there is a road crossing somewhere in the southern US where a blues guitar player supposedly sold his soul for that ability. Maybe if you went there you could ask for being weird, skanky and very slightly talented instead.

[hamin_aus]

For all that money and fame, I would happily sell my *soul - how does one contact satan again?

Play a Lady Gaga song backwards.

You dial Satan - and the music actually sounds a bit better

[-Prometheus-]

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[Tribble]

Why 626?

[hamin_aus]

He's a Mazda fan?

[Tribble]

And here I thought it related to a song - like Route 66

[-Prometheus-]

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[chowzen]

Maybe there is a dark cross road on route 66.....that would make an awesome hotel venue - with the 'o' an 'e' on the sign being broken....wait..where have I seen this...