Creatine, safe or not?

[Bonezmann99]

So, after recently realising I'm all skin and bones I decided to start looking into working out. Amongst other things, I looked into the probability of using creatine. I did my research and gathered all my facts. This is what I have:

- Creatine is a legal substance with no short term side effects, however it hasn't been out there long enough to confirm longterm side effects.

- Using Creatine, won't turn you into a chizzled man bear with bulging muscles. It still takes hard work.

- Creatine causes your muscles to retain more water, which makes you look bloated.

- Creatine helps your muscles recover faster after an extensive workout.

- Creatine gives you more energy.

(The above is just to show you that I did actually do some research)

I also read some nasty stuff about it, but couldn't find anything concrete(which is why I'm asking about this.).so my question is, has anyone here used it and had a bad experience with it?

Do note that I'm only planning to use it for six months or so until I'm in the routine of daily workout. Try to look at it as a -starter' of sorts.

[wizardofid]

If you are going to use it, your are going to need to drink a LOT of fluids ...

[Synthesis]

I would like this confirmed as I'm speaking under correction but one reason I won't use creatine or any kind of similar protein is that you need to keep using it. You can't use it for 6 months then expect to stay in shape, let alone get further along. From what I understand, because you retain more water, sure you get into shape quickly, but when you stop, you lose that shape just as quick so you'll have to have an even more dedicated lifestyle as far as building and working out is concerned.

[Tribble]

From what I have heard from bodybuilders (who do it naturally) you need a good protein supplement more than you need creatine. It is more about how you train than what you take.

[jee]

I looked up all the other threads on body building and supplements and was shocked to see how long ago it was discussed.

[Jonboy]

Hey man,

Creatine is possibly the most well and scientifically researched sports performance supplement available. Ignore all the shock articles that have been around, the only incidence of harmful effects due to creatine supplementation relate to those with renal impairment and those who drastically overdosed - even then, the damage wasn't due to the actual creatine itself, but due to dehydration from lack of fluids.

I've been bodybuilding for three solid years now and can offer the following advice. You're somebody who's just started out and thus you lack power needed to back up the results you could see from creatine. When you begin bodybuilding, your body is in a prime state to shift between anabolic and catabolic states and you'll probably see your best gains during the first six months. During this time, you must put in the effort to get a good four-day split workout programme in place and work on getting your form right. Once you've been training a while and have reached your plateau, then you can start considering using creatine.

Creatine basically makes more ATP available for your muscles to break down into energy, allowing you to push those extra few reps. It will not sculpt you, rather, it allows you to push a little bit heavier and thus build more muscle. Research has shown anywhere between 11 and 300% more muscle mass formation in participants who utilised creatine over a placebo. At this stage though, your form will probably be far from perfect and I doubt you'll see any positive effects of the creatine.

Creatine is transported to your muscles utilising insulin paths and in order to be correctly used, creatine has to be taken with a very high-GI sugar, such as dextrose or the now very popular waxy maize starch (known in supplements as Vitargo) - this creates an insulin spike to carry the creatine. It's best added to your post-workout shake when your body has shifted to a catabolic state and you need to shift rapidly back to anabolic to prevent prolonged muscle breakdown.

As a beginner, I recommend you supplement with a 100% whey protein with 5g of additional glutamine daily to promote recovery.Take this post-workout and back it up with four days of training and six meals a day. You need to take in at least 1.5 - 2g of protein per kg body weight per day whilst taking in sufficient low-gi carbs for energy and power. You also should be taking a decent multivitamin.

The main thing with bodybuilding is perseverance, the average Joe who lacks Schwarzeneggars genes can only expect to put on approximately 2kg of pure muscle mass over a year of solid training. So keep the cardio down to 10 minutes of low-intensity cycling after your workout and NEVER train for more than 45 - 60 minutes. When you've found your pace and move onto a more advanced training programme, consider an all-in-one mass builder shake to replace your post-workout shake - these contain all the creatine, protein and carbs you could need.

One last note on creatine, ignore what the packaging says is required for "loading" - studies have shown that once-per-day supplementation with creatine over 20 days is sufficient to reach the same level of loading as the week loading. Secondly, avoid "fancy" creatine ethyl esters and the likes - they're very unstable and don't give half the benefit of good ol pure creatine monohydrate, which is cheap as chips.

And lastly, if you ever need advice, feel free to ask!

[Hman]

Good post Jonboy!

[Monty]

A side note: If you are going to start pushing weights, work on your form over just pushing heavy weights. Having good form and being able to do each motion correctly is more important than pushing ultra heavy weights straight away.

[SykomantiS]

A side note: If you are going to start pushing weights, work on your form over just pushing heavy weights. Having good form and being able to do each motion correctly is more important than pushing ultra heavy weights straight away.

QFT!!

The importance of this cannot be overstated.

[Bonezmann99]

Jon boy, that is a very informative post, kudos. Just a few questions though:

You're somebody who's just started out and thus you lack power needed to back up the results you could see from creatine
[stuff inbetween]

Creatine basically makes more ATP available for your muscles to break down into energy, allowing you to push those extra few reps.

Wouldn't this actually help me build more muscle by allowing me those extra reps?

It's best added to your post-workout shake when your body has shifted to a catabolic state and you need to shift rapidly back to anabolic to prevent prolonged muscle breakdown.

I've heard people say they take it before a workout, does this make a huge difference?

As for the rest of the advice, I've noted it down. Thank you very much.

I'm thinking of trying some of the workout routines here: http://weightlossandtraining.com/freewo ... utines-men, but I'm not exactly sure if I should follow it.(I was specifically looking at the Intermediate Build Bulk and Strength since I don't need to shed any fat, or should I follow the other one first?

[Anthro]

USN also has some kick bottom routines, check those out for a one stop shop and training solution

[Jonboy]

Best place to get you started

I only utilise the SSN brand, avoid USN and Biogen, while not bad, products are inferior to the rest, hence the price.

[Bonezmann99]

I've weighed all my options and decided against it. I'd rather use protein shakes instead.
Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming!

[Jonboy]

I've weighed all my options and decided against it. I'd rather use protein shakes instead.
Thanks for all the advice and keep it coming!

That's the man, get stuck in for 6-8 months and we'll chat again

[ryanrich]

Best place to get you started

I only utilise the SSN brand, avoid USN and Biogen, while not bad, products are inferior to the rest, hence the price.

Nah lets call it what it is, USN is complete shyte...

In something like sports nutrition you definitely get what you pay for.

[Jonboy]

Best place to get you started

I only utilise the SSN brand, avoid USN and Biogen, while not bad, products are inferior to the rest, hence the price.

Nah lets call it what it is, USN is complete shyte...

In something like sports nutrition you definitely get what you pay for.

To put it simply - yes. USN / Biogen products are bulked up with lots of maltodextrose and other "transport systems" which are actually just sugars.

SSN are a fantastic, locally made brand, one of the best IMHO, for those of us that won't pay for EAS etc.

[Bonezmann99]

Okay, so I started working out. It hurts like hell, and I'm hungry ALL THE TIME, so it means I'm doing something right. Now, I'm struggling with eating habits.

Some websites claim you need lots of Carbs, while others focus more on protein. I'm lost. I got this diet:

Breakfast:

1-2 Scoops of Protein Suppleent in Milk + 1/2 cup of frozen yogurt/fruit.

OR

1 egg + 2 whites, hard boiled.

Morning Snack:

1 - 2 Scoop protein shake + 2 fibre bars, skim milk.

Lunch:

I get free lunch at work, so this normally varies.

Afternoon snack:

1 -2 scoops Protein shake + 2 fibre bars + 1cup milk

Supper:

8oz steak + Salad/brocolli/Cauliflower

Night Snack:

1 - 2 scoops of protein in milk/water

OR

3 eggs ( 2 white only), hard boiled.

The diet doesn't include any carbo-foods? Do I only need to take Carbs in before/after a workout? Help?

edit: I tend to get confused with Calories and Cabs. So just sub the right one above.

[Tribble]

I am sure someone with real experience will be here to help you shortly. But I shall tell you what I have been told so long.

This looks like a diet to lose weight - from what I understand, you need to bulk up not lose weight?

Carbs are very important if you want to build muscle. The way I understand it is that Carbohydrates are turned into a glucose and then used as energy for muscles. When you exercise, your body uses the stored glucose. Clearly you will be pushing yourself hard and will be exhausted at the end of your session. If you don't replace the carbs, your body is likely to cannibalize the muscle for energy - and this is not what you want. From what I understand - that is why there is a difference between a normal protein powder and one for bulking up. After a session you need to consume both carbs and protein. Most of the bodybuilders I know have protein before and carbs after (those that aren't working on their bodyfat % that is). They eat a lot of brown rice and hake or some other fish. Red meat has too much fat in and they say that the protein from fish is more easily absorbed.

Just from a human perspective - it is important for your body that you eat from all the food groups every day. Don't leave some of them out - you need them if you want your body to perform correctly.

In my case, I train to break down fat. So I have learnt how to avoid building too much muscle (because when you are already big you don't want to get bigger). Boy - what a slow process it is (I suppose the alcohol is to blame ) This means we train a little differently to when you want to build lots of muscle. I love weights - I hate cardio. Cardio is what breaks down fat. So they have found a program where I can do weights but it is still cardio. When you are done - you can hardly walk out of there. I watch the bodybuilders (they are a breed all on their own) - they train so hard that some actually throw up

[Jonboy]

If you're properly sore from lactic acid buildup in the muscle (stiffness) and from muscle atrophy, then great, as long as your joints aren't sore. Glad to hear you're enjoying it though!

Did you read the link I posted? It describes exactly how to structure your calorie intake. At this stage of your training and from what I gather about your physique, you don't need to worry about shedding fat, so you need to a healthy and balanced diet (as Trib said) that consists of all the food groups with a stronger emphasis on protein. Like I said, 1.5-2g protein per kg of body weight split over 6 meals per day. Each meal should be complemented with a healthy serving of veggies and at this stage you need low GI carbs for bulk and power.

The fact that you're always hungry is natural at first. Your body glucose levels are adjusting - keep feeding yourself low GI carbs except late in the evening and you'll be full.

Looking at the diet you posted there are WAY to few carbs - that's the sort of diet I follow only to define for a few weeks in the summer season - your tank will empty pretty quickly like that, your body is consuming the protein fairly rapidly and you're left feeling hungry because there are no carbs slowly releasing energy to your system.

To give you an example, on a typical day, I eat the following:

• Breakfast 5h30am - 0.5 cups of jungle oats soaked in water overnight. In the morning I nuke them for two minutes, add a tablespoon of natural peanut butter (no added sugar and salts) and a scoop of whey protein as well as cinnamon (which naturally regulates glucose levels). I also have half a cup of yoghurt.
  Morning snack 8h30am - Unsalted popcorn and a jungle oats bar.
  Mid-morning meal 10h30am - Lean chicken breast cut into a bowl of two minute noodles.
  Lunch 13h00 pm - Usually leftovers with protein, veg and carbs
  Afternoon snack (Pre-workout) Orange and an apple
  Post-workout - 100% whey shake with 40g dextrose, 5g glutamine, 5g creatine mono
  Dinner - Protein, carbs and veg (usually meat of some sort with a handful of veg and the equivalent of 1 potato)

I weigh 86kg with 12% bodyfat and am 1.8m tall on the button

[Bonezmann99]

Hi guys, I'm in need of your help again. I've been exercising ever since I started the thread, and have recently upped my weights since the lighter barbell doesn't do it for me anymore.(lol)

I now use two adjustable barbells for most of my exercises. Everything went well, until Sunday. As I did my squats, I started to get a headache. It was so terrible that I had to stop doing squats alltogether. So I went on with my other exercises and all was mostly fine, except for the pulsing headache I had, which only got worse once I tried doing squats again.

Monday night it happened again, I skipped the squats and went straight to my bicep exercises, where it happened again. I pushed through it and felt like I was dyingfrom the pain. Tuesday was the same, the headaches continued during the night and through the whole of Wednesday. As far as I could find out it could be a whole lot causes, but what is the most likely? I know for a fact that I didn't breath right, and that I didn't drink as much water as I should. Even when I breathe right while doing the exercises, the headaches strike. Could it also be due to overstressing the back/neck muscles? I SUSPECT that it may also be cause due to bad form, is it possible?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Tribble]

Most gyms have trainers who can assist you on form. Just ask one of them to watch you and correct you.

The not drinking enough water can do it though. Hydrate through the day and see if that helps. But I would suggest that keep a diary so that you can see if there are other factors in this pattern. Perhaps go for a good back and neck massage and see if that helps. If anything is trapped, that may release it.

[Bonezmann99]

I don't go to a gym, I lift at home. I've been drinking water since Tuesday, and got my brother to massage my neck, it didn't seem to help. BUT last night I focused on my breathing and form and I had little to no headaches, so at least I'm on the right track. I also started using USN Muscle fuel(without creatine in it) two weeks ago, I'll keep a diary and see what happens.