Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
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Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
All right, never thought I would write about this here on a public forum. But I need the help...
So about April last year I decided to take the plunge into the self employed life. Started my business with about R9.00 in my pocket. Was a very scary move, but doing rather well now.
Following month (April 09) I got a call from a friend who has his own business. He offered me a proposition that he wanted to get involved in my new venture. As the business was very shaky at first I welcomed any form of help, specially financial. So I didn't mind going into a partnership (1st Mistake). He offered me the use of his phones, internet and even vehicles. I obviously had all these items so never needed to use his. I kept a log of what loans he made to my business so that he can get paid back, these loans would include mostly marketing stuff like business cards etc. A new partnership account was also opened at the bank (2nd Mistake).
As my business was still new and not much work coming in I offered to help him in his business where he needed. I racked up quite a couple hours and kept a log daily.
A year later, my business is doing great, got many clients and making a living. My partner has been getting less and less involved over the year, to the point that I asked if he wants to leave as he wasn't contributing anything. He agreed.
Now the fun starts...
He then sent me an invoice for R******* in costs that I apparently ow him for using his services. This being phones, fax, internet bla bla. The amount really took me by surprise. I immediately challenged this with him but he feels he is right.
To try keep fuel off the fire, I went and worked out everything and calculated over and over to try find out how he came to hes amount. My calculations were nowhere near. I did offer to pay him what I felt was fair. He accepted but now wants the rest.
I have since opened a new bank account and transferred all the funds out the old one so he can not see or touch it. However I need his signature to close the old account and he refuses till he is paid. This is annoying because I have to pay the banking fees every month (Although its no more than R100 bucks a month), it is very annoying.
Furthermore, he has not paid me for any of the time I contributed to his business in the beginning.
* I have contacted the bank and they can't help.
* There is no black and white proof (Except the bank account) that a partnership ever existed.
* He hasn't shown me how he came to the amount he invoiced.
* The business is a sole prop. Partnerships are required to register a CC
So ya, this is one big bowl of funky soup. Any thoughts of what to do to end this in a calm and cool manner? What would you do?
Trying to keep courts out of this. I hate courts.
So about April last year I decided to take the plunge into the self employed life. Started my business with about R9.00 in my pocket. Was a very scary move, but doing rather well now.
Following month (April 09) I got a call from a friend who has his own business. He offered me a proposition that he wanted to get involved in my new venture. As the business was very shaky at first I welcomed any form of help, specially financial. So I didn't mind going into a partnership (1st Mistake). He offered me the use of his phones, internet and even vehicles. I obviously had all these items so never needed to use his. I kept a log of what loans he made to my business so that he can get paid back, these loans would include mostly marketing stuff like business cards etc. A new partnership account was also opened at the bank (2nd Mistake).
As my business was still new and not much work coming in I offered to help him in his business where he needed. I racked up quite a couple hours and kept a log daily.
A year later, my business is doing great, got many clients and making a living. My partner has been getting less and less involved over the year, to the point that I asked if he wants to leave as he wasn't contributing anything. He agreed.
Now the fun starts...
He then sent me an invoice for R******* in costs that I apparently ow him for using his services. This being phones, fax, internet bla bla. The amount really took me by surprise. I immediately challenged this with him but he feels he is right.
To try keep fuel off the fire, I went and worked out everything and calculated over and over to try find out how he came to hes amount. My calculations were nowhere near. I did offer to pay him what I felt was fair. He accepted but now wants the rest.
I have since opened a new bank account and transferred all the funds out the old one so he can not see or touch it. However I need his signature to close the old account and he refuses till he is paid. This is annoying because I have to pay the banking fees every month (Although its no more than R100 bucks a month), it is very annoying.
Furthermore, he has not paid me for any of the time I contributed to his business in the beginning.
* I have contacted the bank and they can't help.
* There is no black and white proof (Except the bank account) that a partnership ever existed.
* He hasn't shown me how he came to the amount he invoiced.
* The business is a sole prop. Partnerships are required to register a CC
So ya, this is one big bowl of funky soup. Any thoughts of what to do to end this in a calm and cool manner? What would you do?
Trying to keep courts out of this. I hate courts.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Arrange a meeting, sit down with him and let him show you how he calculated what you owe him and then show him what you calculated. Also show your proof of helping his business out and of using your own equipment.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
I'm with Hman on this.
Also send him an invoice of where you helped his company. If he tells you you never agreed on renumeration, tell him the same thing. Do you have any witnesses to the agreement between you? The way I have it verbal contracts are binding. It's a last resot, if you ever do end up in court.
Also send him an invoice of where you helped his company. If he tells you you never agreed on renumeration, tell him the same thing. Do you have any witnesses to the agreement between you? The way I have it verbal contracts are binding. It's a last resot, if you ever do end up in court.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Get an arbitrator in? Should help keep it out of court. otherwise i'd agree with what the others said.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Was about to say involve a 3rd party as witness.However it is just better to pay a few rand and have a lawyer present it is going to cost you however it may be a good tactic to use if he is indeed in error.Also depends on amount said owning paying a good lawyer for example R1500 for a R40000 amount owning it is well worth the risk lesser amounts not so much...Prime wrote:Get an arbitrator in? Should help keep it out of court. otherwise i'd agree with what the others said.
Even better arrange the meeting to take place at the lawyers office.May let him think twice.
When you do the meeting have a tape recorder handy and tape every thing, but make him well aware that you are recording he can either refuse or allow it.Period you should insist that the meeting be recorded for future reference.Do not have a meeting otherwise.
However make sure at the very beginning before starting that all people involved state their full names and surnames on the recording before proceeding.Just easier to prove that the parties were present.
Also ask if he is aware that the meeting is being recorded and can be used a physical evidence.
However you should not have removed the funds but instead froze the account rather...this could have a negative effect should there be any need to seek legal action.Do you also have proof of what you have paid him so far....
"In my weird politically incorrect hypothetically incoherent contradicting obscured world definitively maybe"
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Thanks guys for the feedback
Will let you know the out come.
Will let you know the out come.
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Koko. most important... that 3rd party... someone that is going to be impartial.... get your witness.
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
This is the good news. He owes you NOTHING without proof of anything in black in white. According to the law, lawyers and courts, there was never an agreement.Koko_Lion wrote: * There is no black and white proof (Except the bank account) that a partnership ever existed.
He is asking you for the money. He will have to make the first move and take you to court if he's serious. If he keeps pestering you, you can ask him for any and all SIGNED documents by yourself. Obviously he will be unable to provide these so he won't be able to take it further.
Basically any chance he has of getting money from you in or out of court is to produce invoices / statements or loan agreements, with your signature on, that sum up to the amount he is asking for.
You have nothing to worry about. Don't worry about this situation else it will just cause you to be too scared for future growth and risk taking. You've learned from your mistakes so you know for next time.
As for asking on a public forum. You would've avoided this whole situation in the first place (but you wouldn't have learned your first important business lesson) if you asked for advice. From my vast experience I would've been able to tell you, hang on and don't make any irrational decisions to take on a partner purely for financial gain. The other party NEVER EVER helps in this way as a friend. They see potential in you and want to milk it. This should've been an alarm bell. For someone to want in on your business is a compliment to your potential.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
I kept good relations with his receptionists. He went through about 4 during this saga (about a year). They will hopefully testify and/or give a statement.
But seriously, this was a very bad move on my part. Partnerships can burn you if not setup 110% properly at first. Should have had a written agreement with clauses that cover every possible angle and protect everyone's interests.
Well I definitely wont be doing this in a hurry if ever! Time to get these wounds licked
Like my old man's advice today: "Just ignore the *******!".Synthesis wrote: You have nothing to worry about. Don't worry about this situation else it will just cause you to be too scared for future growth and risk taking. You've learned from your mistakes so you know for next time.
But seriously, this was a very bad move on my part. Partnerships can burn you if not setup 110% properly at first. Should have had a written agreement with clauses that cover every possible angle and protect everyone's interests.
Well I definitely wont be doing this in a hurry if ever! Time to get these wounds licked
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
He needs to have proof that you used his services. If you can prove (with invoices and such) that you used your own services - then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Sorry you are going through this - and with a friend too. Guess there is no friend any more
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Just make sure that there is like zero in the said bank account, it will go dormant and be closed by the bank anyway. Your father gave you the best advice of all.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Luckily Tiger keeps everything ship shape here. Everything is well filed, so wouldn't even take a minute to pull out any documents for proof.Tribble wrote:He needs to have proof that you used his services. If you can prove (with invoices and such) that you used your own services - then he doesn't have a leg to stand on. Sorry you are going through this - and with a friend too. Guess there is no friend any more
Yea, it is a pity he is acting like this. I still refer work to him in his line of work to hopefully keep good relations.
Fantastic, just followed that up with the bank. The system automatically does close accounts that are dormant for 2 months. If this happens I am saved! One less thorn in my rear.lancelot wrote:Just make sure that there is like zero in the said bank account, it will go dormant and be closed by the bank anyway. Your father gave you the best advice of all.
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
So is this sorted or do you still have issues ?
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
I have emailed him back with my views on the whole issue, lying down as many facts as I can. Have not had a response yet. Tempted to post his letter along with my reply, but obviously a little hesitant as the issue has not yet cleared the hot water. Will post it for interest sake hopefully soon.
Our family lawyer thinks its hilarious. So I am feeling very confident to where I stand.
Our family lawyer thinks its hilarious. So I am feeling very confident to where I stand.
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
This comes to mind....
http://www.nicky510.com/comic/obedience-training/
http://www.nicky510.com/comic/obedience-training/
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Some good news, some bad news!
Bad news. Some clients are still paying accounts into the old joint bank account. A large sum was transferred last night to it. Before I was able to transfer it to the new account. It was gone. All transferred to an account in ex-partners name.
Since I still had not got a response to my email, I decided to phone him and question his motives. Was not pretty, never been sworn at and shouted at so much in 15min.
He said he would have taken more if there was. So this leaves me stuck, as its a joint account. I just have to live with the loss, and work my tail off to make the money back again.
Good news, he has agreed to come with me to close this joint bank account. So once this is done, the story ends, hopefully.
What a morning, my blood pressure and stress is through the roof!
Bad news. Some clients are still paying accounts into the old joint bank account. A large sum was transferred last night to it. Before I was able to transfer it to the new account. It was gone. All transferred to an account in ex-partners name.
Since I still had not got a response to my email, I decided to phone him and question his motives. Was not pretty, never been sworn at and shouted at so much in 15min.
He said he would have taken more if there was. So this leaves me stuck, as its a joint account. I just have to live with the loss, and work my tail off to make the money back again.
Good news, he has agreed to come with me to close this joint bank account. So once this is done, the story ends, hopefully.
What a morning, my blood pressure and stress is through the roof!
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Take it out on the little people!
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Sheesh, that sucks!
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
He must have been either monitoring the bank account, or received an SMS from the bank alertinghim to the payment - go to the bank and change the number for cellphone banking? Or change the login password for the internet banking website.
That'll protect you..
That'll protect you..
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Don't think you can, it was a partnership account, 50/50. The bank gives him that right. That's why I have been trying to drag him into the bank to close the account, they need signatures from both parties.
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Fag.
Dress your woman up as the guy and fake it bruva!
Dress your woman up as the guy and fake it bruva!
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Ah, geez, mate! I was so hoping that this would all have ended by now.
1. Inform all of your clients that your bank account details have changed and supply them with the new details (this is not an unfamiliar occurrence in the business world, as many businesses change their accounts in order to use new, often financially more viable, products. I don't see the need that you should inform your clients as to the reason for the change.
2. Work through your database of clients to ensure that they all are aware of the change. This might be a good time to get into contact with older/inactive clients again as well and it might just reward you with one or two new clients being referred.
3. Do not bad-mouth the idiot when speaking to any client. (Leave that to me on this forum)
4. I don't know the background/extent of your business, but if the clients are dealing with you - no problem; if they are dealing with him - lay it on the table for them in an honest heart-to-heart by telling them that you are no longer business partners and let them decide if they are going to let him do their work from now on, or you. If he can't do the work that you are doing, it is simple. If he can - let the clients decide who they want to use. His lack of dedication will have them scampering back to you soon.
NB: I would really advise that you speak to the "family lawyer" about measures that can be taken to have this bank account closed forcibly, or to have your interest to the account detached at least. He might (and is probably) playing you, seeing that he can get quick and easy moolah... and bye-bye to the bank closing the "dormant" account now...
There should be some civilised way of doing this, without having to resort to the judicial route. Good luck, mate and keep us posted.
1. Inform all of your clients that your bank account details have changed and supply them with the new details (this is not an unfamiliar occurrence in the business world, as many businesses change their accounts in order to use new, often financially more viable, products. I don't see the need that you should inform your clients as to the reason for the change.
2. Work through your database of clients to ensure that they all are aware of the change. This might be a good time to get into contact with older/inactive clients again as well and it might just reward you with one or two new clients being referred.
3. Do not bad-mouth the idiot when speaking to any client. (Leave that to me on this forum)
4. I don't know the background/extent of your business, but if the clients are dealing with you - no problem; if they are dealing with him - lay it on the table for them in an honest heart-to-heart by telling them that you are no longer business partners and let them decide if they are going to let him do their work from now on, or you. If he can't do the work that you are doing, it is simple. If he can - let the clients decide who they want to use. His lack of dedication will have them scampering back to you soon.
NB: I would really advise that you speak to the "family lawyer" about measures that can be taken to have this bank account closed forcibly, or to have your interest to the account detached at least. He might (and is probably) playing you, seeing that he can get quick and easy moolah... and bye-bye to the bank closing the "dormant" account now...
There should be some civilised way of doing this, without having to resort to the judicial route. Good luck, mate and keep us posted.
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When the last guitar string goes "Ping!", that is when Death will stop to sing...
When the last guitar string goes "Ping!", that is when Death will stop to sing...
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
What a *****.
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Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Sorry bud! I didn't see your post here.
I was still referring business to him and trying to keep a friendly relationship. Unfortunately it turned very personal, an unfortunate occurrence with failed partnerships.
Guess he saw the evidence was highly against him. Anyway, he has agreed to come with me to sign the account closed. Hope he keeps his word.
I soon as he agreed to leave, I opened a brand new small business account the very next day. The new banking details are on every invoice and I emailed all my clients a copy of the new details. Unfortunately some forgot to remove the old one from the beneficiary list and obviously paid the wrong account. In this case they were very apologetic.DeathPing wrote:1. Inform all of your clients that your bank account details have changed and supply them with the new details (this is not an unfamiliar occurrence in the business world, as many businesses change their accounts in order to use new, often financially more viable, products. I don't see the need that you should inform your clients as to the reason for the change.
2. Work through your database of clients to ensure that they all are aware of the change. This might be a good time to get into contact with older/inactive clients again as well and it might just reward you with one or two new clients being referred.
His business is in a different trade, kind of. He does mostly security work, like: Surveillance, self defence products etc. I am more in IT support. So our target markets only just cross.DeathPing wrote:3. Do not bad-mouth the idiot when speaking to any client. (Leave that to me on this forum)
4. I don't know the background/extent of your business, but if the clients are dealing with you - no problem; if they are dealing with him - lay it on the table for them in an honest heart-to-heart by telling them that you are no longer business partners and let them decide if they are going to let him do their work from now on, or you. If he can't do the work that you are doing, it is simple. If he can - let the clients decide who they want to use. His lack of dedication will have them scampering back to you soon.
I was still referring business to him and trying to keep a friendly relationship. Unfortunately it turned very personal, an unfortunate occurrence with failed partnerships.
I did speak to our lawyer already. He told me, an I quote: "Tell him to **** off!".DeathPing wrote:NB: I would really advise that you speak to the "family lawyer" about measures that can be taken to have this bank account closed forcibly, or to have your interest to the account detached at least. He might (and is probably) playing you, seeing that he can get quick and easy moolah... and bye-bye to the bank closing the "dormant" account now...
There should be some civilised way of doing this, without having to resort to the judicial route. Good luck, mate and keep us posted.
Guess he saw the evidence was highly against him. Anyway, he has agreed to come with me to sign the account closed. Hope he keeps his word.
Re: Ex-Business Partner Being A Koos
Um, when is this account closing signing taking place? I would be pushing for it like yesterday.