Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science.

A place to talk about more serious topics such as politics, society and current events.
Forum rules
Please read the discussion section rules before posting in here. By posting in this section, you acknowledge to have read and understood them, and agree to abide by them at all times.

Of course, the global forum rules apply here too.

NOTE: posts in this section are not counted towards your total.
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by Anakha56 »

rustypup wrote:other hobgoblins
And I thought they were fantasy? :shock:

/Goes off to find the dragon in the Nature Reserve, if there are hobgoblins there must be a dragons somewhere!

//Why am I numb all of a sudden...
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by hamin_aus »

Stupid or stupid-fiction:
6 scientists who failed to predict the severity of an earthquake sentenced to 6 years in prison
www.telegraph.co.uk wrote:L'Aquila earthquake scientists sentenced to six years in jail

A group of scientists are facing six years in jail for manslaughter after providing “an incomplete, inept, unsuitable and criminally mistaken” assessment of risks posed by the devastating L’Aquila earthquake that killed more than 300 people.
The landmark decision on Monday was welcomed by victims and their families but immediately prompted uproar from the scientific community, which contends that there is no reliable way of predicting earthquakes.
The six scientists and a former government official were all members of the Major Risks Committee which met in the central Italian city on March 31, 2009, after several small tremors had been recorded in the region. At the time, they ruled that it was impossible to determine whether the tremors would be followed by a large quake, in a judgment which reassured residents. One of the group famously advised them to relax with a glass of wine. Just six days later, a 6.3 magnitude quake devastated L’Aquila.
On Monday, Judge Marco Billi announced the manslaughter sentence to a packed courtroom in a temporary building erected to hear the case in the still devastated city. He also ruled that the defendants should pay 7.8 million euros (£6.4 millions) in damages, with two million euros to be paid immediately.
The sentencing provoked strong criticism from the scientific community.

Richard Walters of Oxford University’s Department of Earth Sciences, said he was “saddened” about the verdict, warning that it set a “dangerous precedent”.
“The issue here is about miscommunication of science, and we should not be putting responsible scientists who gave measured, scientifically accurate information in prison. This sets a very dangerous precedent and I fear it will discourage other scientists from offering their advice on natural hazards and trying to help society in this way.”
Prof Malcolm Sperrin, Director of Medical Physics, Royal Berkshire Hospital, said: “If the scientific community is to be penalised for making predictions that turn out to be incorrect, or for not accurately predicting an event that subsequently occurs, then scientific endeavour will be restricted to certainties only and the benefits that are associated with findings from medicine to physics will be stalled.”
Prosecutor Fabio Picuti had sought four-year terms for each of the defendants accusing them of failing to alert the population of the historic Medieval town only days before quake struck on April 6. Judge Billi’s reason for the longer sentence imposed will be disclosed at a later date.
In his summing up earlier on Monday, Mr Picuti told the court that the defendants had provided “an incomplete, inept, unsuitable and criminally mistaken” analysis which gave the residents of L’Aquila a false sense of security.
He compared them to the US Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), which came under fire for failing to assess the risks before Hurricane Katrina destroyed New Orleans in 2005.
Speaking after the sentencing, Enzi Boschi, the former president of Italy’s National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology, who was among the seven found guilty, said he was “disappointed and devastated”.
“I thought I would be cleared. I still don’t understand of what I am accused,” he said.
Defence lawyers condemned the sentence and pledged to appeal it - under the Italian system, the seven will remain free until they have exhausted two chances to appeal.
Marcello Petrelli who represented Franco Barberi, professor of volcanology and a former deputy Civil Protection minister, said the sentence was “incredible and incomprehensible”.
But family members of some of those killed in the earthquake said the victims had won the case with the help of “heavenly” intervention.
“Between the objections and the sentence I went to the cemetery to see my nephew, I felt like saying that the accused had a large stable of lawyers but this time my 'celestial lawyer’ has won,” said Antonietta Centofanti, aunt of Davide who was killed in the university dormitory on the night of the quake.
After the main earthquake struck, L’Aquila and the surrounding area was shaken by another 250 powerful aftershocks within 48 hours.
The quake caused damage worth an estimated 10 billion euros (£8 billion), leaving large areas of the city abandoned even today and the community still devastated by the tragedy.
Image
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

if they had encouraged everyone to "flee for their lives!" but the quake didn't happen... would they have had to stand trial for the monetary/property/livelihood losses incurred?

basic science education is failing someone here and i'm sure it's not the defendants'... :/
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
User avatar
Ron2K
Forum Technical Administrator
Posts: 9050
Joined: 04 Jul 2006, 16:45
Location: Upper Hutt, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by Ron2K »

Kia kaha, Kia māia, Kia manawanui.
GreyWolf
Registered User
Posts: 4754
Joined: 06 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: PHENOM II 945
Motherboard: Asus M4A78
Graphics card: HIS ICEQ 4850 1GB
Memory: 4GB CORSAIR XMS II 1066
Location: , location, location!

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by GreyWolf »

LOL @ Ron. I saw this today. Have actually got my twitter feed open and am reading through these in between work...
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist that black flag, and begin slitting throats."
- H. L. Mancken
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

Image
A pioneering team from IBM in Zurich has published single-molecule images so detailed that the type of atomic bonds between their atoms can be discerned.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
Hman
Registered User
Posts: 28520
Joined: 06 Oct 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i5 650
Motherboard: Asus P7H55-M LX
Graphics card: Gigabyte 7850 2GB OC
Memory: 8GB Kingston DDR3
Location: In my skin
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by Hman »

Very interesting
"Every thinking man is a drinking man."


Member of the Barberton Tigers
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

Image

for a horrible blend of amusing and depressing...
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by Anakha56 »

Okay so interesting story on Giz:

http://gizmodo.com/5980166/surprised-sc ... hs-surface
Surprised Scientists Find Lifeforms Six Miles Above Earth’s Surface
Jesus Diaz

For the first time, scientists have found lifeforms where nobody thought it was possible: floating in the troposphere, the slice of the atmosphere approximately four to six miles (eight to 15 kilometers) above Earth's surface. And not just a tiny few, but lot: 20% of every particle in that atmospheric layer are living organisms.

This has profound implications for our understanding of weather, the spread of disease, and life on other planets.

...
If you follow the link and read further they are thinking that these bacteria feed off of carbon compounds. So ... will they grow on our excess carbon in the atmosphere or will they die out? Effects on global warming?
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
ryanrich
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8465
Joined: 07 Jun 2003, 02:00
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by ryanrich »

I read that on Giz last night, fascinating stuff!
User avatar
StarPhoenix
B.Soc.Sci, M.SocSci [UPCF]
Posts: 17634
Joined: 11 Dec 2003, 02:00
Processor: Core i5 3470
Motherboard: Gigabyte G1 Sniper Z77
Graphics card: nVidia GeForce GTX 1060
Memory: 8Gb DDR3 1600
Location: East London
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by StarPhoenix »

This........Higgs particle/field thingy.......this is probably a gross oversimplification, but might it be said[from a non-scientist's point of view] that property of "mass" that results from a non-photon's interaction with Higg's is something like drag [or resistance]....and that the gradual increase in mass as a non-photon is accelerates is like an increase in resistance against the motion of said body through a medium.

A pity that one cannot illustrate this with the idea of a fluid becoming more viscous the faster one traverses it.

THe next question is: what am I smoking, and where can you get some? :P
"Humankind cannot bear very much reality." T.S. Elliot
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

your daily depression* in a handy quiz format...

*not the quiz, the average result...
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
SykomantiS
Registered User
Posts: 14085
Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 02:00
Location: Location, Location...
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by SykomantiS »

I only got 12/13 :cry:
That last one about fracking was lost upon me.
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

SykomantiS wrote:That last one about fracking was lost upon me.
you are dead to me :P
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
User avatar
KatrynKat
Insane in the Membrane
Posts: 24490
Joined: 18 Jul 2010, 17:42
Location: In my BDSM dungeon - aka Lockdown

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by KatrynKat »

i also got 12/13 but i got the one wrong about heating of the atmosphere, thinking it was in terms of chemistry and not in terms of global warming yadda yadda... :)
"This eBook is displayed using 100% recycled electrons."
SykomantiS
Registered User
Posts: 14085
Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 02:00
Location: Location, Location...
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by SykomantiS »

rustypup wrote:
SykomantiS wrote:That last one about fracking was lost upon me.
you are dead to me :P
Net nie dit nie! :lol:
GreyWolf
Registered User
Posts: 4754
Joined: 06 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: PHENOM II 945
Motherboard: Asus M4A78
Graphics card: HIS ICEQ 4850 1GB
Memory: 4GB CORSAIR XMS II 1066
Location: , location, location!

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by GreyWolf »

13/13 BABAY! OH YEAH!!! I A SO SARMT!
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist that black flag, and begin slitting throats."
- H. L. Mancken
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

Image

only 20% of the sampled populace was aware that nitrogen is the most prevalent gas in our atmosphere... how does anyone make it out of primary education without knowing this?

by inference, 80% of them are unaware of how toxic oxygen can be...

also, >50% think electrons are bigger than atoms and lasers work via sound waves... :roll:

<note: this data is over a tiny sample of adults from what appears to be the 'bible belt' - because if this were a genuinely indicative sample of the american populace, we're all dead...>

@KatrynKat - worry not. you're in good company :lol:
Image
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
CapNemo
Registered User
Posts: 49984
Joined: 18 Nov 2008, 21:55
Location: Searching for a way back throught the lookingglass

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by CapNemo »

13 :? people must be really stupid if I look at the results
"I hear voices in my head but they are my own this time"
"Except for a battle lost, there is nothing so terrible as a battle won."
"Sanity is for the weak!!"
GreyWolf
Registered User
Posts: 4754
Joined: 06 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: PHENOM II 945
Motherboard: Asus M4A78
Graphics card: HIS ICEQ 4850 1GB
Memory: 4GB CORSAIR XMS II 1066
Location: , location, location!

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by GreyWolf »

rustypup wrote: <note: this data is over a tiny sample of adults from what appears to be the 'bible belt' - because if this were a genuinely indicative sample of the american populace, we're all dead...>
Never mind that all the questions were easily Googlable...
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist that black flag, and begin slitting throats."
- H. L. Mancken
CapNemo
Registered User
Posts: 49984
Joined: 18 Nov 2008, 21:55
Location: Searching for a way back throught the lookingglass

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by CapNemo »

I thought they were common knowledge :dontknow:
"I hear voices in my head but they are my own this time"
"Except for a battle lost, there is nothing so terrible as a battle won."
"Sanity is for the weak!!"
KALSTER
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5439
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 02:08

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by KALSTER »

rustypup wrote:
only 20% of the sampled populace was aware that nitrogen is the most prevalent gas in our atmosphere... how does anyone make it out of primary education without knowing this?

by inference, 80% of them are unaware of how toxic oxygen can be...
I was more thinking about combustion. We'd be a pile of smouldering ashes if the oxygen level was that high :shock: .

So the atmosphere warming thing....you and KK got it wrong? What did you answer and why?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
doo_much
Registered User
Posts: 26022
Joined: 13 May 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting there...
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by doo_much »

CapNemo wrote:13 :? people must be really stupid if I look at the results

And looking at the results, woman more so than men? :whistling:
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by rustypup »

KALSTER wrote:you and KK got it wrong? What did you answer and why?
no... KK got it wrong, but the results indicate that this may be a woman thing, hence the "good company" :lol:
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
KALSTER
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5439
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 02:08

Re: Science or Science Fiction: The thread to debate science

Post by KALSTER »

rustypup wrote:
KALSTER wrote:you and KK got it wrong? What did you answer and why?
no... KK got it wrong, but the results indicate that this may be a woman thing, hence the "good company" :lol:
Haha!

Have no idea what she means with "in terms of chemistry". :?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
Post Reply