Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by GreyWolf »

Thanks man.

Shared.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by D3PART3D »

All must partake.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by StarBound »

Well I agree with point 8. Didn't bother reading the tsunami of text though. Kinda fitting that 8 should be 8)
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by GreyWolf »

You should read it all, and all the other posts on the site. It is well written.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by D3PART3D »

Maybe, but exactly zero percent of it is original. Would a copy/paste not have been easier? Countless people have written the same stuff and put it more eloquently. The internet doesn't need help propagating text.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by KALSTER »

There is one or two inaccuracies he has to fix,otherwise it will just be ammunition for a clued-up creationist.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by Ark »

KALSTER wrote:There is one or two inaccuracies he has to fix
I admit, there are certain things where my knowledge is.. dated. Correct me where I'm wrong :)
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by KALSTER »

Ark wrote:
KALSTER wrote:There is one or two inaccuracies he has to fix
I admit, there are certain things where my knowledge is.. dated. Correct me where I'm wrong :)
Difference between creationists and the scientifically minded in a nutshell. :)

I am far from being the bastion of all knowledge, but in your large post in this thread:
There has to be a creator:

For those who haven't been paying attention to what scientists have been doing in the past decade, particle physicists stationed at CERN's LHC have made a few rather remarkable discoveries. They have *almost* confirmed the existence of a particle that gives matter mass. So far, what they found looks like a duck, it quacks like a duck and they are now doing very thorough research and doing very expensive upgrades to the LHC to confirm that it is in fact a duck. This will prove that a universe can come into existence without a god. But I sense this may not be satisfying to you. I'm guessing you're still hanging to the designed belief. Let's say the universe has been designed. I now have a question for you. If your argument remains "The universe looks designed, therefore bible", then how did you get from "The universe looks designed" to "therefore bible"? If it looks like its been designed, then how did you get to bible being your answer? Why did you not go with the Quran?
The bolded part is quite a leap to make. Not sure where that came from. Has it to do with the "God particle" moniker? While finding the evidence for the Higgs field is a major milestone for sure, it would hardly put a dent in any creationist claims of divine conception that I can think of. How would it be anything more than just another thing that God made? Creationists tend to point at the gaps and inject God in there, but there will never be a shortage of gaps.


Also, one should be careful throwing the word "proof" around when dealing with scientific matters.

I also noticed on your blog that you conflated abiogenesis with evolution. Biological evolution only deals with the evolution of life, not with it's origins from non-life. I am sure though that the conversion from non-life to life has a large grey area where both principles will overlap, but they are separate principles nonetheless.

On the whole though, I like your essays. ;)
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by rustypup »

Ark wrote:1) The harmony and balance in nature is so perfect, it must have been created by a super intelligent designer.
irreducible complexity, argument from design
Ark wrote:2) Prayer really does work. Jesus helped me find my car keys. He also cured my horrible throat infection.
confirmation bias.
Ark wrote:3) The bible is perfectly in line with modern science and every word printed in the bible is fact.
appeal to 'authority'
Ark wrote:4) Without the bible, there would be no morality.
false dilemma
Ark wrote:5) Hell is real and if you don't accept Jesus as you personal lord and saviour, then you will spend the rest of eternity there.
appeal to fear
Ark wrote:6) Heaven is real and if you accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour, then you will enter this paradise.
ditto...
Ark wrote:7) The bible is the true word of God and Christianity is the one true religion.
appeal to authority, appeal to the masses.
Ark wrote:8) God has given you free will to accept him or reject him.
appeal to the masses, begging the question, appeal to fear

all tried and tested and bashed about for so long now it's becoming disheartening. the religious will not budge because people struggle to admit when they're wrong or have permitted themselves to be misled. while marginally entertaining, arguing with theists is hardly ever rewarding.

quite the opposite, in most cases.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by StarPhoenix »

4) Without the bible, there would be no morality.
If being perfectly moral means encouraging genocide, slavery and misogyny...I'd rather take my chances with Cthulhu than Yahweh. At least one knows exactly where one stands with the elder gods.

Ark is trolling, right?
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by doo_much »

StarPhoenix wrote: Ark is trolling, right?
We can only hope...
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by KALSTER »

He was actually debunking that tripe...
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by rustypup »

KALSTER wrote:He was actually debunking that tripe...
precisely..

i was merely pointing out the futility of doing so.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by KALSTER »

rustypup wrote:
KALSTER wrote:He was actually debunking that tripe...
precisely..

i was merely pointing out the futility of doing so.
Yep. Was talking to StarDoo though.
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by Anakha56 »

https://www.simonsfoundation.org/quanta ... y-of-life/
A New Physics Theory of Life

By: Natalie Wolchover
January 22, 2014

Whyy does life exist?

Popular hypotheses credit a primordial soup, a bolt of lightning and a colossal stroke of luck. But if a provocative new theory is correct, luck may have little to do with it. Instead, according to the physicist proposing the idea, the origin and subsequent evolution of life follow from the fundamental laws of nature and “should be as unsurprising as rocks rolling downhill.”

From the standpoint of physics, there is one essential difference between living things and inanimate clumps of carbon atoms: The former tend to be much better at capturing energy from their environment and dissipating that energy as heat. Jeremy England, a 31-year-old assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has derived a mathematical formula that he believes explains this capacity. The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy. This could mean that under certain conditions, matter inexorably acquires the key physical attribute associated with life.

...
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Re: Creation & Evolution OFFICIAL DEBATE

Post by KALSTER »

Read about this recently. It is very interesting indeed, but not really surprising. Emergent order is a known feature of nature. The idea of the primordial soup with lightening and luck is not a very good account of the landscape of current ideas surrounding abiogenesis though.

Most people involved in the relevant sciences were fully expecting the mystery of abiogenesis to be gradually unravelled. Very exciting indeed!
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