Piracy article in June issue

Questions, comments, suggestions, flames about the magazine? Here's the place.
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Prime »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:
Prime wrote:
While, I agree on the quote about software modification being standard on All Eula's, I certain that non transference is not in all Eula's. And what is a program utility?
Ok What is your favorite pirated game ???
Just to be clear, I am talking about Non-tranference of legitimate games.

Probably Jedi Academy (Wish I could find a legit version to buy :( ) or UT3 (Also need to get a legit version of this, I think its now on steam, so I need to fix that). Those are the only 2 games that I have that are pirated.
doo_much
Registered User
Posts: 26022
Joined: 13 May 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting there...
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by doo_much »

Ironically I run a cracked exe for UT2004 - my laptop doesn't have a ROM. :cry:
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
DeathStrike
Registered User
Posts: 2663
Joined: 29 Jul 2004, 02:00
Location: hidden deep in the depths of the underworld is my home.
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by DeathStrike »

Bladerunner wrote: There is no "normal" and therefore no specific moral ground.

Information is not an object. It is not stealing.
The only two things i agree with. I learnt from my lecturer that Information does not exist. :lol:

and i have always believed that normal is how you define it. what is normal for you is not for someone else.

with regards to the other question (Think it was Anakha56) How can developers make money if everyone pirates... They could put advertising into the games. just my 2c don't shoot me now. *Runs away* :run4hills:
Spoiler: (show)
Image
SIG by HMAN 8)
Member of The Pride Of Darkness
DeathStrike on Twitter
About me
Spoiler: (show)
Asus P5KPL-CM motherboard, 4 GIG RAM, Q6600 @ 2.88GHz (Thanks Anthro), GeForce 8600GT, Samsung 2333 23" + CRT 17" Monitors. 500GB + 1.5TB HDD, Compro TV tuner, 350 WATT PSU
doo_much
Registered User
Posts: 26022
Joined: 13 May 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting there...
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by doo_much »

DeathStrike wrote:They could put advertising into the games.
They do already?
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Anakha56 »

Please don't. Religion has nothing to do with this.
Actually it was to prove a point, if you are a Christian you are breaking a fundamental part of your religion but hey you seem comfortable with it. BTW I think all religions say that stealing is a crime? doo the only point I was trying to make by raising the topic was to see how far he would go to get what he wants and apparently, by the deflection, he is Christian and is quite happy to break his fundamental laws, dont you find that intriguing? I was not saying in any way Atheists are happy to pirate all I was doing was trying prove the point.
So why not buy your game and crack the DRM? It's been cracked, or so I've heard. You've bought the legal copy, so what prevents you from cracking it. And if you cracked it, you wouldn't have been bothered with DRM in the first place.

Gentlemen, at most piracy can be an infringement of copyright. But it is not theft. And there is a difference. Secondly, the figures are hugely exaggerated when it comes to piracy. I've made my point, and since this is getting to a personal level (even involving religion now), I believe I shall not be posting here again.
Why not crack my own legit game? Lets see because the EULA that I click accept on says I am not allowed to ;). But on the flip side if you and every other soul bought the game I would not have DRM in the first place, so why not go buy the game? Whats preventing you from buying the game? ;) This thread is dead and Bladerunner you made no point ;).
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
RuadRauFlessa
Registered User
Posts: 20576
Joined: 19 Sep 2003, 02:00
Location: Bloodbank

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Agree with Ankha I have to.
:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Spoiler (show)
Intel Core i7-2600k @ 3.4GHz
Corsair Vengence 2x4GB DDR3 2000MHz
Thermaltake Toughpower 850W
ASUS nVidia GTX560 1GB
CoolerMaster HAF 932
User avatar
Stuart
Lead Forum Administrator
Posts: 38503
Joined: 19 May 2005, 02:00
Location: Home

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Stuart »

doo_much wrote:No, actually I'm not happy.
By being an atheist that doesn't support software piracy you are proving that, as he said, "Religion has nothing to do with it."
You're missing the context of the statement. Bladerunner was saying in essence that his religion says nothing about the issue of piracy. My point (and Prime's) is that it does say something about it. Assuming he professes Christianity, the Bible tells us to obey government. Piracy is a breach of the law and therefore disobedience to government. See?
Image
User avatar
Ron2K
Forum Technical Administrator
Posts: 9050
Joined: 04 Jul 2006, 16:45
Location: Upper Hutt, New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Ron2K »

Erm, Stu... it's pointless continuing a debate in a thread that someone else already locked. ;)
Kia kaha, Kia māia, Kia manawanui.
User avatar
Stuart
Lead Forum Administrator
Posts: 38503
Joined: 19 May 2005, 02:00
Location: Home

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Stuart »

Actually Ruad locked it AFTER my post. ;)
Image
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Prime »

Right, I asked Raud to Unlock this thread because I saw this the other day:
EA Sports to charge $10 to play second hand games online wrote:EA does not like when you buy used games, and it keeps coming up with ways to incent gamers to avoid the used game section at their local retailer. With Mass Effect 2, you were given access to new content at launch with a one-time use code included in the box. With Bad Company 2 it was a day-one map pack.

If you bought the game new, you got the goods. If you bought it used, you had to pay $10. With its sports games, however, EA is playing hardball: it will cost you an extra $10 if you want to play online with a secondhand game.
Online pass

Starting in June with Tiger Woods PGA Tour 11, sports games will come with a one-time use code that will allow gamers to play online on the Xbox 360 or PS3 systems. If you rent the game, you can play online for seven days for free, but that only works one time per game. If you buy the game used and want to activate the online features, you'll have to buy the Online Pass directly from EA, for $10.

EA has a page dedicated to explaining the system if you'd like more details, but it's pretty cut-and-dried. "When you connect online with your new EA SPORTS game for the first time, you'll be prompted to confirm your EA account details. If you don’t already have an EA account, you'll be asked to accept our Online Terms and Conditions and then create an account. After confirming or creating your account, a screen will appear that enables you to redeem your Online Pass code," the company explains. The code is found on a card inside your case, and if you don't have that, you can buy a new code from within the game. Simple!

You'll also be given access to "bonus" content, but it sounds suspiciously like items that were simply left out of the game in order to provide a false sense of value. Here is the official example: "...in Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 11, an advanced driver used on the PGA TOUR for play in-game will be included with the Online Pass. Our goal is to provide value to consumers, and this is one piece of that philosophy."
People want to play online, and they need to pay for it

EA is oddly blunt when describing why this system has been put into place. "When we see how many people are playing all of our games online, consumers are telling us that competition is endemic to sports in a way that most people don’t get just by playing a game alone on their couch," Andrew Wilson, Senior Vice President of World Wide Development at EA Sports wrote on the FAQ. "As a result, we’ve made a significant investment to offer the most immersive online experience available. We want to reserve EA SPORTS online services for people who pay EA to access them." If you're not buying the game new, you're not paying EA, so you need to cough up some cash to play online.

GameStop is on board, and will be selling cards with access codes alongside the titles. It makes sense for everyone: EA gets its pound of flesh, and GameStop can continue to hawk used games.

Everyone is looking for new ways to monetize their gaming content, and this move will surely be watched by other publishers hoping to find ways to siphon a few dollars more from gamers' pockets. Will gamers balk, or shrug their shoulders and pay? We'll be watching and listening just as intently as EA to see what kind of impact this has on the sale of sports games. For now, though, be aware of exactly what you're getting into when you buy a used EA Sports title, especially if you like playing online.
User avatar
Stuart
Lead Forum Administrator
Posts: 38503
Joined: 19 May 2005, 02:00
Location: Home

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Stuart »

It's odd, but I find myself having less and less time for EA as the years go by.
Image
doo_much
Registered User
Posts: 26022
Joined: 13 May 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting there...
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by doo_much »

Stuart wrote:It's odd, but I find myself having less and less time for EA as the years go by.
Nothing odd about it. :?
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
KagutsuchiZA
Registered User
Posts: 41
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 15:03

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by KagutsuchiZA »

Bladerunner wrote:
DAE_JA_VOO wrote:
Bladerunner wrote:and they have the nerve to call it "stealing". It's not stealing. It's copying.
I'd like to see you say that when you've spent millions of dollars and months of development on a game and then have someone not pay for it.

Catch a wake up. Copying something like a game or music IS theft.
No. If i take a pair of shoes from a store without paying, that is theft. If I make a replica of those shoes, it isn't.

And I'm a software developer myself, and do you ever hear me nag and moan like an old woman about piracy? No, quite the contrary.
I have not read the entire thread yet, but your logic is wrong here. Yes, if you make a replica of shoes then it isn't theft, but that is a physical object. You have to go out and buy materials with which to replicate the shoes with. You cannot replicate it out of nothing. And you have to put energy into it. If you replicate it, you have to replicate the whole thing, including the energy and materials. It's like saying "I don't have to buy a house, I can just replicate my neighbour's "

It is a little different with software isn't it? All you are paying for is the disk you use to replicate it with. All the work and energy that went into the game can be easily copied just with 'n mouse click. See with shoes or other physical objects you have to replicate the materials and energy in order to replicate the product, with software you can just skip it. So no it is not the same and cannot be compared to one another. You cannot honestly tell me that you believe that your not stealing when you copy software illegally.
IcePick88
Registered User
Posts: 1341
Joined: 18 Mar 2008, 02:00
Location: KZN
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by IcePick88 »

To throw my now useless 1c in the mix.

These days more and more games (I won't post a figure or percentages) is coming out that requires you to activate your legally bought copy online. Riiight. In all fairness, I side with the publishers and developers on it, because they are just trying to protect their investment, BUT, what if you don't have internet?

Take this scenario:

Someone read about this awesome game on the net and has been awaiting it's release for a while now. The game comes out and he/she runs to their nearest store to pick it up. Flipping the case over, they read the requirements and see this: Internet connection needed for online verification/activation.

Oh noes! He/she does not have internet to do it, but wants to play the game badly and goes out to find someone who has the game, copies the disc and gets a crack from the net at a friends house or internet cafe.

So, now we sit with this. We "had" a user/gamer/person who was going to buy the game legally, but due to the stringent measures in place by publisher/developers he/she went the not so legal route. They were prepared to pay the price for a game, but the deciding factor was the protective measures in place to combat piracy. And what happened? He/she pirated the game anyways!

So I don't buy this "pirates would have never bought the game" because the one thing that was put in place to PREVENT piracy is now the driving force behind a lot of the piracy.

Make the games cheap for one and activate by key included in the box. I wish developers/publishers would try this with one of their games and measure the results. I would bet my ridiculous government salary that it will decrease piracy on that game! :D
CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 555 (OC'ed to 3.8Ghz)
CPU Cooler: CM Hyper TX3 P/P
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD5850
Motherboard: Asus M4A785T-M
Memory: 4GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333
Case: Zalman Z7
Display: Samsung Syncmaster 2243BWX
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Prime »

I'm not going to enter back into the piracy debate, The point was clearly made that piracy is theft.
Stuart wrote:It's odd, but I find myself having less and less time for EA as the years go by.
I actually think it's a fair compromise, between trying to fight the second hand market and pissing all the people who buy the title new off.

I agree with their logic, If you bought the game second hand, It's not fair to let you play on their servers or access limited content without you paying something. Servers are expensive, so is bandwidth. And frankly it would not be fair to their customers who bought the game new if they just gave away the extras to everyone who bought the title second hand. The second hand market also hurts their sales, so its a way to earn back some of the losses there.
KillerByte
G3AR Staff Member
Posts: 5790
Joined: 08 Mar 2003, 02:00
Location: PCFormat HQ
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by KillerByte »

An age old debate that will never end.

I used to pirate a lot of games but now that I am working I find that I have less time to play games but more importantly the time that I do have is very precious so I am very selective over the games that I do play.

Because I work I now have money to buy games (the original reason why I pirated). I like owning an original copy. I pre-ordered crysis. I bought BFBC2, I bought FarCry2. I have all the NFS titles since Underground and they are all original. I have every Battlefield game (the pirated versions have been replaced with originals even though I don't play them any more. I have gone through my pirated games and thrown them away. Games that I enjoy I purchase.

I do not believe in piracy but I cannot deny that it exists. I am not a fool. Every body argues that the games are expensive, yes they are but doesn't it make it all teh sweeter after a long month of working you finally have the cash to go out and buy it and enjoy the fruits of your labour. I think so.
I understand that young guys pirate, what school boy can afford games and a PC. But I am shocked that any self respecting adult, who works hard to get money to enjoy their life would take the same satisfaction away from a fellow man.

Cracking a game you own is a sticky situation. I crack my copy of BF2 so that when I go to BF2 LANs I don't have to bring along my precious disc. I rejoice in games such as BFBC2 which allow you to register your game online and then put the disc safely in the cupboard. Steam however is the perfect system for the modern gamer. I don't have to take my discs out of their precious packaging (if I even bought the physical game) and if I lose my PC or my games I still own the rights to use it which are linked to my Steam account. I will probably pass my steam account on to my son, maybe it will be come a tradition (I hope so).

[/my 2c]
What I type has nothing to do with the people that employ me.
User avatar
rustypup
Registered User
Posts: 8872
Joined: 13 Dec 2004, 02:00
Location: nullus pixius demonica
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by rustypup »

KillerByte wrote:I will probably pass my steam account on to my son, maybe it will be come a tradition (I hope so).
not picking on you but...
You may not sell or charge others for the right to use your Account, or otherwise transfer your Account.
Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so - Bertrand Russel
KillerByte
G3AR Staff Member
Posts: 5790
Joined: 08 Mar 2003, 02:00
Location: PCFormat HQ
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by KillerByte »

I will just leave my account details to my son/daughter in my will. That way i will be dead and Valve can't sue me.
What I type has nothing to do with the people that employ me.
DeathStrike
Registered User
Posts: 2663
Joined: 29 Jul 2004, 02:00
Location: hidden deep in the depths of the underworld is my home.
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by DeathStrike »

OH. that hurts... is it illegal to buy a game second hand now?
Spoiler: (show)
Image
SIG by HMAN 8)
Member of The Pride Of Darkness
DeathStrike on Twitter
About me
Spoiler: (show)
Asus P5KPL-CM motherboard, 4 GIG RAM, Q6600 @ 2.88GHz (Thanks Anthro), GeForce 8600GT, Samsung 2333 23" + CRT 17" Monitors. 500GB + 1.5TB HDD, Compro TV tuner, 350 WATT PSU
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Prime »

DeathStrike wrote:OH. that hurts... is it illegal to buy a game second hand now?
I think it depends on the publishing house and Eula.
ta.maximus
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Jun 2010, 09:15

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by ta.maximus »

Hi guys, first post.

The aforementioned article starts with a great headline: "Why are legit gamers funding the war [against piracy]?". Then it goes off on a tangent about the age old and rhetorical argument about whether piracy is piracy, how much it is damaging the industry, etc. I feel the original question have not been touched. The following points are facts:

1) Regardless of what everyone says, the movie industry, the music industry and the games industry have been forever complaining about how piracy kills their specific industries. I'm a 70's kid and remember the "copying is killing the industry" stickers on the old cassettes back in the days. Since then those same industries have grown into gigantic monsters. No wonder there isn't much compassion shown towards them when they loose money on sales.

2) There isn't a 1:1 correlation between the amount of pirated copies made and sales lost due to it. Neither can it be calculated without proper statistics, statistics that can never be compiled due to its nature.

3) Being a legitimate buyer, I feel I'm paying more and more for less and less. It feels that the game industry is looking at ever bigger margins and I have to literally help fund the war against piracy, while I get jailed into the same games I buy. I'll remind you again that they have been claiming that copying is killing the industry since the 70's. A more appropriate statement may be: "Copying digital media is hurting the industry at some unknown level."

4) There is this ever growing techno-fascism we see in the modern world, I just have to mention the name Apple and you know what I am talking about, locked in software, locked in music, locked in everything. DRM can be compared to a socialist state. It wants to control the things that you have bought, everything is really rented to you and you own nothing, the state (industry) owns everything. Heck, you even have the Chinese sweatshops pumping out the products in the background.

5) If piracy on the PC is so rampant, stop making games for it for goodness sakes! I am at the point where I just don't care any more. The PC games I have now will last me for years on end, Heroes of Newerth, Armed Assault 2, all my racing sims, the upcoming StarCraft II and Diablo 3. In fact, I have so many games with excellent replay value that I really don't have to buy a game for the next 10 years. I WILL NOT be forced to feel guilty about the "poor" old gaming industry who is forever being killed by piracy.

So the question remains, why am I funding the war against piracy while the industry who keeps screwing its legitimate buyers are forever expanding, while they claim that they are being killed? Can someone provide me an answer for that please?
NightOwl
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 Jun 2012, 14:05

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by NightOwl »

DAE_JA_VOO wrote:
Bladerunner wrote:and they have the nerve to call it "stealing". It's not stealing. It's copying.
I'd like to see you say that when you've spent millions of dollars and months of development on a game and then have someone not pay for it.

Catch a wake up. Copying something like a game or music IS theft.

I agree with you man. Don't support piracy, If you can't afford it don't buy it.
Bladerunner
Registered User
Posts: 14338
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 02:00
Processor: i386DX Sooper
Motherboard: A blue one
Graphics card: A red one
Memory: Hard drive
Location: On a Möbius strip
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by Bladerunner »

NightOwl wrote:
DAE_JA_VOO wrote:
Bladerunner wrote:and they have the nerve to call it "stealing". It's not stealing. It's copying.
I'd like to see you say that when you've spent millions of dollars and months of development on a game and then have someone not pay for it.

Catch a wake up. Copying something like a game or music IS theft.

I agree with you man. Don't support piracy, If you can't afford it don't buy it.
Really? Seriously? You want to get me started on this again? :P I don't support the MAFIAA.
If I weren't insane: I couldn't be so brilliant! - The Joker
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by hamin_aus »

Bladerunner wrote:
NightOwl wrote:I agree with you man. Don't support piracy, If you can't afford it don't buy it.
Really? Seriously? You want to get me started on this again?
Yes please, I long to see some sort of well thought out and rational argument for theft
Last edited by Stuart on 07 Jun 2012, 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed for formatting phool!
Image
doo_much
Registered User
Posts: 26022
Joined: 13 May 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting there...
Contact:

Re: Piracy article in June issue

Post by doo_much »

First and only post of 'Nightowl' and it's a necro and obvious troll.

Suggest thread lock - this 'subject' is worn out. :?
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
Post Reply