Surprise! It's just a game...

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rustypup
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Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by rustypup »

The health and socioeconomic impacts of major multi-sport events: systematic review (1978-2008) wrote:Conclusions The available evidence is not sufficient to confirm or refute expectations about the health or socioeconomic benefits for the host population of previous major multi-sport events. Future events such as the 2012 Olympic Games and Paralympic Games, or the 2014 Commonwealth Games, cannot be expected to automatically provide benefits. Until decision makers include robust, long term evaluations as part of their design and implementation of events, it is unclear how the costs of major multi-sport events can be justified in terms of benefits to the host population.
now, i have long held the view that "professional" sports are nowhere near as fantastical as they're hyped up to be - that while games are fun to play, the act of watching games, (especially golf), and beating each other to a pulp over which team you support is frankly retarded and that the entire edifice of modern sport is constructed around fleecing a childishly non-critical populace through marketing and pageantry... (naturally, this means i'm not invited to many sport-type gatherings and i get punched a good deal more often than is healthy... )

it is, however, rewarding when the scientific community weighs in and reveals that, (in a result which can only be surprising to babies and politicians), there is zero evidence supporting the notion that professional sports has any benefits for the population in general...

would love to see a cochrane review approach to analysis on the data before actually adopting it as hard fact, but we've been fed so much political fertiliser over sport in the past it would make for a refreshing change...

tl;dr: science nerds prove sport's purported benefits are absolute bogus... and that the sharks can't play rugby...
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

troll fail.
reboot yourself.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Hman »

Shift and Caps Lock broken?
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by GreyWolf »

Who ever claimed that watching sport is beneficial?
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by rustypup »

Sojourn wrote:troll fail.
reboot yourself.
a poignant, insightful and eloquent response... i know i was moved.

the actual paper is fascinating... feel free to read it at your leisure...
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

rustypup wrote:
Sojourn wrote:troll fail.
reboot yourself.
a poignant, insightful and eloquent response... i know i was moved.

the actual paper is fascinating... feel free to read it at your leisure...
A guy is driving home - his wife calls him and she say's be careful there is a lunatic driving on the wrong side of the road towards traffic - he then reply: "there are hundreds of them".

It is a hobby. Nowhere does the definition of hobby require that the nett effect needs to be benefiting to society or the practicing individual.
Then also, if this so called "study" concerned themselves with the volume of money that changes hands from the consumer on the street right up to the big corporations, they would have reached a different conclusion.

So, rusty, enjoying all that headlights coming your way?
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Sojourn.... what financial impact did the Soccer world cup have on us :?:
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by rustypup »

Sojourn wrote:if this so called "study" concerned themselves with the volume of money that changes hands from the consumer on the street right up to the big corporations, they would have reached a different conclusion.


the world cup magically cured all our economic ills? :lol:

many municipalities are still in the red, we're lumped with an excess of non-functional rigs which were imported, (many at tax-subsidised prices), specifically for the white elephants we refer to as stadiums and we've blown close on R2bn on what.... a game which served to advance captain jordaan's career and flesh out the over-stuffed coffers of FIFA... :/

the study is fairly detailed, (for a given value of 'detailed'), and offers a factual counter-point to the untested and emotionally charged notion that professional sports is a good thing...

playing a game is a hobby...
watching a game is a facsimile of a hobby...
arguing about watching a game is malema-silly..
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:Sojourn.... what financial impact did the Soccer world cup have on us :?:
See this in context of what Rusty commented VS what the objective of the actual report is.
The study's aim is to determine the benefits to a host when hosting a big event. It starts and ends there.
Now see Rusty's troll comments, totally out of scope if you take into account the report objectives.
that while games are fun to play, the act of watching games, (especially golf), and beating each other to a pulp over which team you support is frankly retarded and that the entire edifice of modern sport is constructed around fleecing a childishly non-critical populace through marketing and pageantry.
Above comment have no relevance towards the published report.
it is, however, rewarding when the scientific community weighs in and reveals that, (in a result which can only be surprising to babies and politicians), there is zero evidence supporting the notion that professional sports has any benefits for the population in general...
Again, his own subjective irrelevant opinion.

Yes, financial gain when acting as host is marginal at best. Agree.
That does not make sport in general nonsensical by any means.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

rustypup wrote:
Sojourn wrote:if this so called "study" concerned themselves with the volume of money that changes hands from the consumer on the street right up to the big corporations, they would have reached a different conclusion.


the world cup magically cured all our economic ills? :lol:

many municipalities are still in the red, we're lumped with an excess of non-functional rigs which were imported, (many at tax-subsidised prices), specifically for the white elephants we refer to as stadiums and we've blown close on R2bn on what.... a game which served to advance captain jordaan's career and flesh out the over-stuffed coffers of FIFA... :/

the study is fairly detailed, (for a given value of 'detailed'), and offers a factual counter-point to the untested and emotionally charged notion that professional sports is a good thing...

playing a game is a hobby...
watching a game is a facsimile of a hobby...
arguing about watching a game is malema-silly..
I do not agree with the decisions made during hosting of our own WC. It should have been handled with more foresight and planning, we didn't need to build at least 2 of the stadia that was erected.

But to say that sport in general is a waste of time just because some arbitrary study says that there is no financial gain for the host during the big events, is just as stupid as Malema.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by rustypup »

Sojourn wrote:his own subjective irrelevant opinion.
90% accurate... extrapolating "sport fandom is nonsensical" from "everything sports fans spout about their particular brand of crazy is empirically proven to be wrong" is, frankly, untenable...
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Stuart »

But the South African has a bona fide Minister of Sport. Surely our government wouldn't buy into something that isn't real?

:scratch:
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by hamin_aus »

Sorry, as much as I enjoy watching certain sports, I have to agree that it has no tangible benefit for spectators.

For me it's 90% social. IE if there isn't anyone else around who wants to watch it with me , I usually wont bother.
Thankfully I don't rely solely on spectator sport for my social activities.

I also don't measure my worth by how well a bunch of athletes who supposedly represent my area/city/town/province country can play a given sport.
Nor do I judge others by how well 'their' athletes play.
Nor for that matter, do I engage fans of opposition teams in arguments about the prowess of our respective teams, unless it's for teh lulz.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Prime »

Stuart wrote:But the South African has a bona fide Minister of Sport. Surely our government wouldn't buy into something that isn't real?

:scratch:
We also have a Minister of education. :|
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

rustypup wrote:
Sojourn wrote:his own subjective irrelevant opinion.
90% accurate... extrapolating "sport fandom is nonsensical" from "everything sports fans spout about their particular brand of crazy is empirically proven to be wrong" is, frankly, untenable...
Proven to be wrong? What exactly was proven to be wrong?
The existence of sport?

The only "proven" part according to you is that there is no gain from any sport watching hobbyist.
At best the official conclusion is "insufficient evidence to confirm or refute expectations about the health or socioeconomic benefits" with a calculated guess that no benefit can be forthcoming in future.

That hardly translates to "everything sports fans spout about their particular brand of crazy is empirically proven to be wrong".

They should have used the money spent in doing that research by donating it towards funding of the next Olympic Games, would have been much more constructive. :mrgreen:
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

jamin_za wrote:Sorry, as much as I enjoy watching certain sports, I have to agree that it has no tangible benefit for spectators.

For me it's 90% social. IE if there isn't anyone else around who wants to watch it with me , I usually wont bother.
Thankfully I don't rely solely on spectator sport for my social activities.

I also don't measure my worth by how well a bunch of athletes who supposedly represent my area/city/town/province country can play a given sport.
Nor do I judge others by how well 'their' athletes play.
Nor for that matter, do I engage fans of opposition teams in arguments about the prowess of our respective teams, unless it's for teh lulz.
I relate. This I can agree with.
I enjoy the socialising, friendly banter and pre and post match analysis.
The sport you enjoy or team you support is hardly a measure of one's character.

Rusty would absolve and outlaw any and all sport fraternising just because he do not understand the social element. Which brings me back to those headlights....
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

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Sojourn wrote:They should have used the money spent in doing that research by donating it towards funding of the next Olympic Games, would have been much more constructive.
you jest, but where would we be as a country if we were pouring this sort of funding into healthcare/infrastructure/education instead of professional sports?

where would humanity be if space agencies the world over were receiving the same funding as formula 1? :|

racked up against systems with proven positive benefits for all of mankind, arguing for the opportunity to get hammered in front of a TV while ranting at people who can't hear you, and wouldn't listen even if they could, is hardly productive...
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Stuart »

I must say that, in my thoroughly unresearched opinion, South Africans are generally more conservative sport fans than other countries. Have you ever watched a soccer World Cup when a European or South American team gets eliminated? Ever seen subcontinent cricket fans mourn when their teams lose? Sport is like a religion in a lot of other countries. I don't think it's quite that bad here yet. Or at least not amongst those whom I observe and with whom I associate.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by lancelot »

You guys think anybody really cares?
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

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rustypup wrote:
Sojourn wrote:They should have used the money spent in doing that research by donating it towards funding of the next Olympic Games, would have been much more constructive.
you jest, but where would we be as a country if we were pouring this sort of funding into healthcare/infrastructure/education instead of professional sports?

where would humanity be if space agencies the world over were receiving the same funding as formula 1? :|

racked up against systems with proven positive benefits for all of mankind, arguing for the opportunity to get hammered in front of a TV while ranting at people who can't hear you, and wouldn't listen even if they could, is hardly productive...
Ahh... I get it. Let's discontinue any and all sport from humanity and funnel every cent into science. /approve

Pity about the canceled Rugby World Cup in NZ, next Soccer World Cup in Brazil and the Olympics, damn going to miss the ladies gymnast floor event where they don those tight leotards.

Oh wait, this is reality, those will all happen. Close call, eh?

Jokes aside, yes I understand your point. The problem you are faced with is one where instant (financial) gratification is up against only a remote possibility of actual success, where success are measured not in fiscal terms, but in total contribution to the continued existence of the human race. I hate accountants, invariably they make these decisions.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Sojourn »

lancelot wrote:You guys think anybody really cares?
Alister Coetzee is having a cracker of a season. Deservedly so.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by Prime »

Stuart wrote:I must say that, in my thoroughly unresearched opinion, South Africans are generally more conservative sport fans than other countries. Have you ever watched a soccer World Cup when a European or South American team gets eliminated? Ever seen subcontinent cricket fans mourn when their teams lose? Sport is like a religion in a lot of other countries. I don't think it's quite that bad here yet. Or at least not amongst those whom I observe and with whom I associate.
You clearly haven't met many manchester united fans.
rustypup wrote:
Sojourn wrote:They should have used the money spent in doing that research by donating it towards funding of the next Olympic Games, would have been much more constructive.
you jest, but where would we be as a country if we were pouring this sort of funding into healthcare/infrastructure/education instead of professional sports?

where would humanity be if space agencies the world over were receiving the same funding as formula 1? :|

racked up against systems with proven positive benefits for all of mankind, arguing for the opportunity to get hammered in front of a TV while ranting at people who can't hear you, and wouldn't listen even if they could, is hardly productive...


This fails on 2 counts:

One, not all sports is run like this. I'll site German football because it's what I am most familiar with: The Alliance Arena is team owned (and was co-owned with another team but TSV 1860 Munich is going bankrupt), so is the Bay Arena and Rhine Arena. Signal Induna Park was owned by BvB but they sold it. The German FA has the right example of financial controls.
This proves sports can be a profitable enterprise and not pillage government coffers.

Second: While Education and a space program could do with the extra funding, unfortunately without something to do on the weekend, we'd all be breeding like rabbits.
Last edited by Prime on 04 Apr 2011, 13:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

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Stuart wrote:I must say that, in my thoroughly unresearched opinion, South Africans are generally more conservative sport fans than other countries. Have you ever watched a soccer World Cup when a European or South American team gets eliminated? Ever seen subcontinent cricket fans mourn when their teams lose? Sport is like a religion in a lot of other countries. I don't think it's quite that bad here yet. Or at least not amongst those whom I observe and with whom I associate.
I think you need to go to Pretoria whenever a Bulls game is on. :P

(Assuming, of course, that Pretoria grants visas to Albertonians.)
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by lancelot »

Mankind, are you crazy? Mankind would not benefit one cent from any more money money thrown into the pit of wastefulness. The world is far too messed to be cured by space agencies, another Challenger bites the dust. Therefore I may as well enjoy watching whatever I enjoy, be it a game, the Libyan conflict, 9/11, the latest from Afghanistan and Iraq. Listen to the madman from Iran wanting to nuke the world and the remarkable way that Africa handles its problems.
Space agencies, the woeful scientific approach that is so in the doldrums, still trying to cure a common cold let alone cancer. The loudest and most prolific debates on this forum are about whether God exists, wow man wow. We cannot even tolerate the beliefs of others and we are going to depend on science, what a joke.
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Re: Surprise! It's just a game...

Post by hamin_aus »

lancelot wrote:We cannot even tolerate the beliefs of others
Well if you believe the Stormers know how to play rugby you need to have your beliefs mocked and belittled
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