F1 2011!

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Re: F1 2011!

Post by THE_STIG »

Well P1 has not really shown how much difference this rule change has made, but it does seem that RBR has not been affected :x . Also Mercedes seem to be quick but because of the conditions we dont know the true pace of RBR, Ferrari and McLaren.

hopefully it will dry up in P2 :)
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Re: F1 2011!

Post by Anakha56 »

You know what gets my back? Everyone is complaining about the Bulls being dominant but what about when Brawn ran away with the championship using his double decked diffuser? That was not banned in the middle of the season but at the end? What about when Mclaren introduced the F-Duct? They dominated that season as well and their device was also only banned at the end of the season. What about when Ferrari dominated for all those years? Same goes for Renault and their mass dampner in the nose of the car, that was only banned 2 years after it was introduced and they dominated. So all those who are peeved off about RBR dominating look at the other teams and tell me why you were not peeved off when they dominated? Fan bois FTL...
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Re: F1 2011!

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^^ well the FIA has changed, the former boss of Ferrari is now the head of the FIA(I still find this a bit suspect). This year they seem to be very worried about certain teams running away with the season, in the past they did not care. Back in the MS days Ferrari would dominate every race and nothing was done :x

The F-duct was under all sorts of investigation but it did not make McLean impossible to beat :? . I dont know why the FIA are making such a meal out of the RBR thing, just leave it be. If anything it is just making other teams fall further behind because now they have to go and do tones of testing to get the cars working properly again :( .

P2 was wet again, but I have noticed that the Mercedes look very fast. Maybe they will surprise us on Sunday :D it will be nice to see someone other than Vettel(brilliant driver but it is getting boring now) win :D :D
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Re: F1 2011!

Post by Anakha56 »

Right seems the FIA have muddied the waters on the 10% rule:

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/
10% rule: Full analysis
with 3 comments

After much expectation on the effect of the 10% off-throttle limit, what transpired over the opening practice sessions brought more confusion than clarification. As practice got under way it transpires that the expected 10% limit was in fact not applied to all teams, nor was the dispensation to the different engine manufacturers communicated clearly to all the others. This brought much confusion to fans and media alike, as well as bringing a heated debate between Martin Whitmarsh and Christian Horner in the Friday press conference. Its been reported that Renault engines have been dispensation to run at up to 50% throttle when the driver is off the throttle pedal, and slightly less well reported that Mercedes engined teams are able to run a fired overrun.

However, the situation was explained to me by several key technical staff in the Silverstone pit lane. The communication and political issues notwithstanding, the status is at least technically clear.

Firstly I gained detail of what the proposed 10% rule actually consisted of. In order to prevent teams using off-throttle engine maps to continue to drive airflow over the diffuser for aerodynamic benefit, the FIA proposed a pair of changes to what’s allowed when the driver comes off the throttle pedal. Firstly the well known 10% limit on the throttle opening, but secondly a ban on injecting fuel into the engine when off the throttle. The intention of this pair of changes was to ban both hot and cold blown engine maps.

Of course this was the FIA proposal; the original date of the Spanish GP was delayed while the teams lobbied their cases to the FIA, giving their reasons why such changes were unworkable given the timescales and restrictions on development.

Now we need to understand what goes on within the engine when a driver lifts off the throttle and the subsequent effect that has on other aspects of the car. Unlike in road cars the driver in an F1 car doesn’t leisurely lift off the throttle and delay the braking phase. Instead the driver may be at near maximum revs, when he will simultaneously lift off the throttle pedal completely and hit the brake pedal hard for the initial downforce aided braking event. During the braking event the gears will be sequentially selected, further peaking revs as the car slows. This sudden closing of the throttles blocks off the inlet to the combustion chamber, but the cylinder will continue to pump up and down at a great rate. This creates huge stresses inside the combustion chamber and the vacuum created will suck air past the piston rings. This will rapidly slow the engine, creating too much engine braking effect, which in turns creates downstream stresses in the drive train and over-brakes the engine. The excessive engine braking effect will make the car nervous on throttle lift off, regardless of any subsequent aerodynamic effect.

...
Be warned it is a long read but well worth it.
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Re: F1 2011!

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How typical of the FIA , I suspected that this would happen. WTH did they have to ban it in the first place, and whats more ferrari were the team that was really pushing for this change( and the FIA loves them).

why cant the FIA come up with a propper rule, and stop making these stupid rule canges so they can help the evil red team.

I hope they sort this out soon.
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Re: F1 2011!

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Why do the <insert variable> FIA have to go and change the regulations every two seconds, they have completely messed McLaren around. Both RBR and McLaren(most of the others as well) are very unhappy with the changes but Ferrari are very quiet about all this and seem very happy that things have changed. Say what you like but I truly believe that as usual the FIA are doing this to help the Ferrari.......even the commentators have mentioned this(David Coulthard brought it up)

Why can't the FIA just for once accept that RBR is better than Ferrari and shut up!

Oh well I suppose from a McLaren point things will be dismal tomorrow :cry: , hopefully both Ferraris crash :D

At least Webber was on pole so I am happy for him :)
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Re: F1 2011!

Post by Anakha56 »

What an exciting race! Well done Alonso. What a fight between Vettel and Webber towards the end, to bad team orders came into play. :lol: @ Hamilton running out of fuel toward the end, I reckon he might just get a penalty with that scrap between himself and Massa on that last lap.

It seems that a 50% Hot Blown Diffuser (Ferrari) is faster than a 10% cold blown one (Renault, Red Bull Racing). I really hope the FIA fix the shambles they have created with this...
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Re: F1 2011!

Post by Ron2K »

Yeah, the sport is in a real mess right now with the regulation changes; hope a resolution can be found.

Don't think Hamilton will get a penalty, looked OK to me. Although, expect some emo posts from our resident McLaren fanboy because one of the red cars won... :lol:
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Re: F1 2011!

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ok, i know i'm not allowed to post here but i've always had a soft spot for Ferrari....
so... WELL DONE!!
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Re: F1 2011!

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Ron2K wrote:Yeah, the sport is in a real mess right now with the regulation changes; hope a resolution can be found.

Don't think Hamilton will get a penalty, looked OK to me. Although, expect some emo posts from our resident McLaren fanboy because one of the red cars won... :lol:
:lol: , Na it was a rather exciting race. Hamilton went form 10th to 4th :D :D .


But things did get rather dismal at the end, after Alonso took the lead my heart sank(I hate him with a passion and I hate Ferrari even more :x ). Then Button had a terrible pit stop and ended up with a loose right front wheel :cry: .

Oh well at least Vettel did not win(again)......I really wanted Webber to pass him.

As for the Hamilton Massa scrap. I believe that it was completely Massa's fault as he was desperate to get past. But I loled so hard when Hamilton came back past him on the final corner :lol: :lol: :lol: but knowing the FIA they probably will give Hamilton a penalty because a Ferrari was involved :?


The FIA really needs to fix the mess, cold blown, hot blown.......they have made it even more confusing than it was to begin with :( . And I still think this was done to help Ferrari, so I dont think Alonso deserved that win at all.

edit. was it just me or did the crowed seem rather quiet when Aloso stepped out of the car(thought I heard a few boos as well) :lol:
KatrynKat wrote:ok, i know i'm not allowed to post here but i've always had a soft spot for Ferrari....
so... WELL DONE!!
:yay:
:| Typical Ferrari fan......I rest my case :roll:
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Re: F1 2011!

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Surprising qualifying session that was. McLaren have so far this weekend only managed about 4th and 5th. But now Lewis Hamilton has split the RBR's and is in 2nd for tomorrows GP only a few hundreds off Webber's pole position time :D I hope tomorrow goes well just sorry that Jenson Button only managed 7th :cry: (dont know what went wrong).
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Re: F1 2011!

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Yeeeeeeeeeeees :D :D Thank you Hamilton that was brilliant, I hope that answers all the critics questions and silences all those who said he was a "chop" :D . If it weren't for his aggressive driving style he would not have won it.

And it looks as if RBR were for once slightly behind McLaren and Ferrari......seems as if Vettel's luck has finally run out :|
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Re: F1 2011!

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Because (for once!), Hamilton wasn't overly aggressive and didn't drive like a chop. :P

The thing with F1 these days is that you don't have to be aggressive to the point of recklessness to win races - with DRS and KERS, you just need patience. That was Hamilton's problem in the last few races - tried to be too aggressive too early, and lost out big time (Turkey, Monaco, Canada). Alonso's performance in the British Grand Prix was the perfect example of how to win a race these days - just be patient, the opportunity to pass will come. It seems that Hamilton has finally realised this - today he drove that kind of race, and look where it got him.

Webber needs to work on his starts though - he hasn't got a good start in the last two races, and indeed has struggled since last year's Belgian Grand Prix. Vettel had a bit of a shocker, but recovered nicely for fourth (lucky to edge out Massa in the pit stop race though).
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Re: F1 2011!

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Webber has never really been good at starts, he has often lost out at the beginning of a race. btw patience is not always the right thing, take Button for example. He was quite a few places ahead of Hamilton in Silverstone but because he was being cautious and patient he soon had his team mate Hamilton going down the inside of him(who finished 4th in the end after starting 10th) and never really improved form there. I think that it was mostly frustration(he was not concentrating on the track) that caused Hamilton to make those mistakes in Monaco and Canada.

//edit. Vettel's recovery to 4th was not all that brilliant, after all he started in 3rd and it was not like he dropped to last place. That drive form Button in Canada was more like it. I wonder just how good Vettel is when it comes to wheel to wheel combat :?
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Re: F1 2011!

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Actually, patience is probably the wrong term - I should have called it "controlled aggression" instead. The problem with Hamilton is that his aggression is usually uncontrolled; if he learns to control it, he'll achieve far better results (and this race was proof of that). Perhaps this race is a sign that he's learning to control it?

The race also brutally exposed Vettel's shortcomings - he's brilliant when he's out in the front, but not so good when racing fighting for position.
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Re: F1 2011!

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I also think Vettel has lost that luck which usually seems to follow him.......I wonder if this race marks a change in order?
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Re: F1 2011!

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Quite possibly - McLaren and Ferrari have both closed the gap to the Bulls. That being said, Vettel's lead is large enough that he should win the championship, unless there's some DNFs (or low points finishes) thrown in.
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Re: F1 2011!

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^^ yea, the only way for anybody to win the championship now would be if Vettel has some DNF's and the others win some more races. I guess all will be answered in the next gp in Hungary.
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Re: F1 2011!

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Ron2K wrote:Actually, patience is probably the wrong term - I should have called it "controlled aggression" instead. The problem with Hamilton is that his aggression is usually uncontrolled; if he learns to control it, he'll achieve far better results (and this race was proof of that). Perhaps this race is a sign that he's learning to control it?

The race also brutally exposed Vettel's shortcomings - he's brilliant when he's out in the front, but not so good when racing fighting for position.
+1 about Hamilton.

Hamilton himself has admitted that it was controlled aggression that helped him win the race. Those flying laps he put in after his first tyre change made the difference. He drove like a champion.

Vettel I think is starting to pay to much attention to the media. He seems shaken up, not at peace with himself. He can overtake when he needs to, he proved it a number of times last year but in the same breath he proved he can also be as bashy as Hamilton so he still has rough edges to work on. I reckon it was not his inability to pass Massa it was the fact that the Ferrari is much, much faster in a straight line. As Alonso proved against Webber down the straight when it was a straight horse power race. Also I feel that Webber badly impacted his race with his shoddy start, that man needs to go back to his starting lessons. Vettel still has a lot to learn about racing in the back and dare I say it racing in the wet? He was not so comfortable with Button breathing down his neck in the wet Canadian race as well.

Something else to consider, the Bulls use a cold blown diffuser while Ferrari and Mclaren use a hot blown diffuser maybe we are seeing that when at the back these cold blown diffusers are next to useless? Renault are also a cold blown diffuser and look at where they are when they sit behind another car.

All in all a very exciting race. Even though Vettel did not win it was still very thrilling to watch and I love the fact that Ferrari has caught up to the Bulls and even passed them in terms of horse power. I expect the Bulls to struggle in Hungary...
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Re: F1 2011!

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^^ yes it did seem that Ferrari and McLaren did have a massive straight line advantage. This was obvious when Hamilton drove clean past Webber just after being overtaken by him. Also even with the DRS and KERS enabled Webber could not get anywhere near Hamilton on the straight, Alonso got slightly closer but still seemed to lack the speed of the McLaren(most of the advantage is because of the engine). I too suspect that RBR might struggle in Hungary but these days you can never tell.
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Re: F1 2011!

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Another brilliant GP :D . Well done Jenson, what better way to celebrate your 200th GP than with a deserving win in tricky conditions :D . Yet again McLaren were quite a bit faster than RBR, could this be the end of RBR dominance(I hope so), has Vettel finally lost his luck or was it just the cool conditions :?: . Ferrari were also a bit faster than RBR though :(

I hope when F1 returns to Spa in three weeks time things will be just as interesting :)
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Re: F1 2011!

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Missed this one as I was driving back from a weekend away in Betty's Bay. Then again, it was Hungary - I probably didn't miss much. :P
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Re: F1 2011!

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It was actually quite an interesting race with lots of overtaking, unlike in the past where this track has been just as boring as Monaco(which I think should be taken off the calendar).

Still not so sure about Hamilton's penalty, if he had stayed where he was on the track it would have been just as dangerous as spinning the car round so that he could move on........he did not cause any accidents and they only started investigating this long after it took place which is a bit suspicious.
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Re: F1 2011!

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THE_STIG wrote: Still not so sure about Hamilton's penalty, if he had stayed where he was on the track it would have been just as dangerous as spinning the car round so that he could move on........he did not cause any accidents and they only started investigating this long after it took place which is a bit suspicious.
Anything bad to happen to Mclaren and you call foul... :roll:

Lets look at this properly. Hamilton spun his car and was facing in the wrong direction, he then spun his car again and forced another car off the track and given the wet circumstances that in itself had the potential to cause a major accident given the speeds and lack of grip on the track. As they said it was a unsafe maneuver, if he stayed where he was the other drivers would have seen him and stayed on the track and gone around him. There is no conspiracy here and Hamilton did not lose the race because of that penalty he lost because he and the team made the wrong tire call.

My thoughts on the race was that it was a excellent race. The Red Bull of Vettels dominated quali where it was dry and the temps were up. However on race day in the wet that Red Bull looked like it was ice-skating. As Coulthard said that Red Bull lacks mechanical grip which the Ferrari and Mclaren have lots of. Its good to see Mclaren and Ferrari back up at the front but I have to wonder what will the result be on a hot, dry track? Will we see the same speed from those two teams and will see a return to speed from Red Bull? The Mclaren in the wet looks very sexy with those shapely sidepods, starting to get the Mclaren support back in me heres hoping it stays the speed and good looks. One interesting piece of news that came out from the weekend was that Ferrari have the ability to use both types of diffuser cold and hot blown.

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1 ... rrari.aspx
...

Inevitably, the intriguing topic of using exhaust gases for aero purposes continues to interest the media, so Fry shed some light on how the system works at Ferrari: “Some corners we are hot blowing and in others we are cold blowing and for us it is possible to switch from one to another quite easily, whereas other teams have to use their car one way only, whereas we can switch quite easily between the two depending on the corner.”

...
How crucial this will be later on will be very interesting to see. Something I loved to see was Alonso struggling to maintain the car in those conditions, he was driving all over the place. Proving just how difficult it really was out there.

Well Done to Jenson Button a well deserved victory on his 200th Grand Prix, well deserved and well driven...
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Re: F1 2011!

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:wav:
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