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ICE-VaPa
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Supplement Help

Post by ICE-VaPa »

Hey guys,

Got myself a nice Gym contract going, and now its time to get into a routine.

Would love to hear some advice on which supplements are recommenced. Im currently 12 odd kgs over my ideal weight, but have a large structure so dont actually look very overweight. - Ive been really slack for 4 years. :(

So, as most people starting out - Im looking to shed off some fat, and tone up a bit. I will be doing high intensity cardio, and weight training. I will also be following a basic meal plan, and be eating 6 times a day with plenty of water.

I essentially need advice on supplements. I have heard that the EAS Myoplex is a good place to start for protein and vitamins.

Was also shocked at the price of this stuff at a local Dischem - if anyone knows a good place to buy supplements from, please pm me! - even if its an individual. Would really REALLY appreciate it. Help a poor guy out! hehe

Thanks :)
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Post by Monty »

Best way to shed fat is low intensity cardio - less than 60% of max heartrate - If you work too hard your body burns glucose and glycogen, if you do lower intensity it converts fat to energy



You don't really need supplements, rather change your diet (its cheaper and usually as (if not more) effective) and you don't end up pissing half the expensive supplements away
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Post by D3PART3D »

Lol, I was just thinking of you Monty - I started taking Phedra-cut the other day as an experiment and my goodness! The caffeine buzz I get off of it is GLORIOUS :D

Anyway, to prevent peeing all your vitamins out take half the dose in the morning and half at night to give your body more time to absorb.

Protein shake and a lean diet FTW, building muscle will really help you burn calories faster. Oh and Monty is right - buy a heartrate monitor if you can - they go for around R350.
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Post by ICE-VaPa »

First two posts and already ive learnt some new things.

Ive been brainwashed into thinking cardio must be a flat out work rate. Interesting stuff...

The vitamin tip makes allot of sense - only thing id be worried about is the rest of the tablet keeping me up at night - suppose a morning dose and a mid afternoon dose. :)

:)
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Post by Monty »

Flat out cardio improves fitness but there are more efficient ways of doing it
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Tribble »

I am going to hop in here and hijack your thread if I may ICE-VaPa, :D .

I have far too much weight to lose. I have yoyo dieted my whole life - putting on, losing, putting on. As a result - the doctors tell me I have screwed up my metabolism. I have Insulin resistance now and basically my metabolism is not functioning well. They tell me my TSH is low and want to put me on Eltroxin. Been there and done that and it made no difference. So here is my problem.

I eat literally once a day. We did the whole track what I eat thing and I was told that I eat too little and there are no calories to cut out. So this is my plan. Remember I am vegetarian so no meat, chicken or fish.

I plan to replace two of my meals with protein shakes - I have USN Pure Protein. Then I have been told to add another protein (USN Diet Fuel) between meals. I need to add a bit of fruit and raw veggies too. So I do the smoothy thing. I am taking the Phedra-Cut XT to try and raise my core temp.

Now this will be fine for a few weeks. But what should my diet be when I do start eating again? That is my problem. That is when I fear I will put on all the weight that I am about to lose. Any suggestions? I will go to a dietitian if needs be - but don't really have the time right now. Oh yes - I have a treadmill and will be walking 30 to 60 mins a day. Been told to keep my heart-rate at about 134 bpm
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

Tribble :) I've been working out for quite a while, and I CAN tell you that USN has some of the best marketers in SA, but some of the worst products too. I'm not even joking, you can look around on the body building sites and whatever, they use very complex proteins which don't break down well. I am not saying don't use it, but maybe consider alternatives like Weider, Biogen(USN sister brand, much much better tho and one of the best tasting ones :P) and TSA are all great ones :)

As to Ice, I was in the same boat. I'm a big guy and when I hit 90kg I got a fright. Started working out. Took Weider Amino tablets as recommended by some guy that won Mr SA a couple of times :P Can't remember his name. You take 2 with each meal and it helps lower fat and tone your body but it's not a thermogenic which isn't really healthy. I also took some whey after each workout (Whey = fast processing protein) and a low carb meal replacement at nights.

Like Monty said though, diet > all. The supplements have just given me a boost :)
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Jonboy »

I34z1k wrote:Tribble :) I've been working out for quite a while, and I CAN tell you that USN has some of the best marketers in SA, but some of the worst products too. I'm not even joking, you can look around on the body building sites and whatever, they use very complex proteins which don't break down well. I am not saying don't use it, but maybe consider alternatives like Weider, Biogen(USN sister brand, much much better tho and one of the best tasting ones :P) and TSA are all great ones :)

As to Ice, I was in the same boat. I'm a big guy and when I hit 90kg I got a fright. Started working out. Took Weider Amino tablets as recommended by some guy that won Mr SA a couple of times :P Can't remember his name. You take 2 with each meal and it helps lower fat and tone your body but it's not a thermogenic which isn't really healthy. I also took some whey after each workout (Whey = fast processing protein) and a low carb meal replacement at nights.

Like Monty said though, diet > all. The supplements have just given me a boost :)
I agree. It seems we all started the same, I hit 89Kgs and my pants started getting tight, although I'm 6'2" so didn't look too bad.. I began working out roughly 13 weeks ago with a cardio intensive and weight training regimen that I still use. Begin with a 10 min run at 10.5 level, burn 100KCal. Go and do two exercises for whatever muscle group I'm training that day. Follow up with 10 min orbital, burn 100KCal. Follow with another 2 muscle-group weight exercises. Finally, row for 10 mins, 100Kcal and leg raises.

For the first 6 weeks I couldn't shift the fat and turned to Hydrocuts. These were great at first because they made you FEEL like you were burning fat because you get all hot and sweaty at the gym. But when I hit 3 weeks and are taking the recommended 4 a day, I was getting nervy, anxious, irritable, battling to sleep with erratic heartrate. Then I went and checked online and all thermogenic fat burners do is hide behind "natural names" for caffeine. They all boil down to derivatives
of ECA, ephidrine, caffeine and aspirin. These do not serve to rapidly decrease fat and can mess your heart valves up, so I stopped immediately. From week 10, with eating well and keeping at the training, the blubber has started disappearing and voila, a six pack emerged. Now I'm really feeling good. I feel that I eat enough and have enough bulk to avoid protein for now, but may consider a protein shake at some stage BUT THATS IT!!!
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by UrBaN »

I'm on the oppostie end of the scale to you guys. I'm 5'6" odd and weigh about 51kg, which is actually NOT underweight for my build - I'm on about 11% body fat.

I have been gymning now for about 4 months and I eat decently. Thus far I have about doubled in strength, though I haven't put on a single KG.

Any suggestions for Supplements? I have been looking at Muscle Science Optimum Anabolic coupled with Creatine Supreme. Should be a good combo as it has BCAA's, L-Gluts and good protein.

Any other recommendations? I know whey would be better as it's lean, but it's out of my budget for now.

Any suggestions guys? I'd like to get up to about 75KG, though that will obviously take time.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Jonboy »

75Kgs might be a bit much for somebody your height, but seriously, the bulking up involves consuming, consuming, consuming. Avoid fats but go big on carbs and protein. It's not unheard of to see guys that want to bulk eating upwards of 6 eggs for breakfast, full cream milk, loads of chicken breasts. Supplement with a protein that contains a bulking agent such as protein and carbs. The protein I'm considering is pure protein as the carbs would make me build. The creatine should add about 2kgs of water which you retain if you take creatine monohydrate, but ethyl esther creatine is much better for performance.

You have a very fast metabolism, so focus on taking in foods that digest slowly.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by UrBaN »

Jonboy wrote:75Kgs might be a bit much for somebody your height, but seriously, the bulking up involves consuming, consuming, consuming. Avoid fats but go big on carbs and protein. It's not unheard of to see guys that want to bulk eating upwards of 6 eggs for breakfast, full cream milk, loads of chicken breasts. Supplement with a protein that contains a bulking agent such as protein and carbs. The protein I'm considering is pure protein as the carbs would make me build. The creatine should add about 2kgs of water which you retain if you take creatine monohydrate, but ethyl esther creatine is much better for performance.

You have a very fast metabolism, so focus on taking in foods that digest slowly.
From all I've read, creatine ethyl ester is fairly harmful and should be avoided. Slowly digested foods would be what exactly? I digest everything quickly...
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Jonboy »

UrBaN wrote: From all I've read, creatine ethyl ester is fairly harmful and should be avoided. Slowly digested foods would be what exactly? I digest everything quickly...
Foods that digest slowly consist of meat, eggs, cheese, yogurt, beans, nuts and seeds and complex carbohydrates (whole grains, fresh vegetables, fresh whole fruits).

I've become very weary of supplements as most don't indicate the long term damage on one's liver. Muscle science have some nice protein/carb bulking mixtures, one which includes some creatine monohydrate if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by UrBaN »

Yup you're right. I was looking at MHP too, but they're just so expensive.

Cool, will try eat better.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

Muscle science = as bad as USN :P

Watch out ;)
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by UrBaN »

I34z1k wrote:Muscle science = as bad as USN :P

Watch out ;)
Then I'll buy Muscletech/BSN/MHP/SSP or something else... I'm not too phased TBH because I'm not buying any of the hectic stuff...just a protein shake, L-glutamine and MAYBE creatine...
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

Muscletech = AWESOME :D

Yea, a protein shake is more than enough IMO
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by D3PART3D »

Jonboy wrote:
I34z1k wrote:For the first 6 weeks I couldn't shift the fat and turned to Hydrocuts. These were great at first because they made you FEEL like you were burning fat because you get all hot and sweaty at the gym. But when I hit 3 weeks and are taking the recommended 4 a day, I was getting nervy, anxious, irritable, battling to sleep with erratic heartrate.
QFT - fat burners don't really work, all they do is make you fidgety in an attempt to keep you active. Protein shake is the one real product that actually does anything (Unless you're trying to look like Arnie that is.)

Tribz, you should seriously eat more often - eating only once a day forces you body into storage mode. Buy some breakfast bars, pack some nuts in your bag, etc. That way your body knows there will always be food on its way and it wont store all the sugars and fats in your food. Oh, and try some cardio really early in the morning, it sets the pace your body burns energy at for the entire day. :)
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

And btw to other guy, try cardio AFTER all your weight training :) I've heard that's best.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by D3PART3D »

Yup - because it means you've burned up your primary energy reserves so your body is forced to start burning fat.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

Yep :) That's it ;)
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Tribble »

D3PART3D wrote:Tribz, you should seriously eat more often - eating only once a day forces you body into storage mode. Buy some breakfast bars, pack some nuts in your bag, etc. That way your body knows there will always be food on its way and it wont store all the sugars and fats in your food. Oh, and try some cardio really early in the morning, it sets the pace your body burns energy at for the entire day. :)
I know - with all good intentions I try and eat more frequently. I am ADD and let that interfere as I never plan meals :lol: Monday was bad for food. Forgot to make breakfast so didn't eat till late int he day but yesterday took my shaker with a little protein powder in. Now I am not sure if just protein powder is enough for a meal but that is what I had for breakfast and then some dried soya strips for lunch with a few nuts. Supper last night was unfortunately mainly red wine :twisted: - cocktail party and the foods were rather fattening.

About the exercise - is it better to do it in the morning?
And btw - this protein is working - lost a kg in 3 days. That was mainly water - right?
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Jonboy »

D3PART3D wrote:Yup - because it means you've burned up your primary energy reserves so your body is forced to start burning fat.
Well, it depends what you're trying to achieve. I'm at a point where my body fat percentage has dropped really low and if I do all my cardio right at the end, I'll probably end up breaking down muscle as the body usually goes into a catabolic state after plus minus 45 minutes of training. As you do heavy weight training, your body releases fat cells into the blood stream, so by doing cardio in between training, your body burns those free fat cells and not muscle as the cardio session isn't long enough.

At the end of the day, every person needs to read the recommendations and find out what works for them.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by I34z1k »

@Tribble, I'm sure all will agree that fattening foods are better than nothing :) If they were that bad, just have one or two so that you have some food in your tummy ;)

@Jonboy, I believe it's 47min, I haven't heard of that, and I wouldn't know if the cardio would cause proteins to be broken down.
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by Acidkidsa »

I34z1k wrote:Muscle science = as bad as USN :P

Watch out ;)
I dont find anything wrong with Muscle Sciene at all. They way way better than the dust USN/Biogen sells.

Muscle Sceince Xplode is awesome. Try it. And Grow Exxtreme not too bad either.
I have tried their Ripped Hardcore which I found pretty good as well.

From the 4 products I use from Muscel Sceince , I see nothing wrong.

Have not tried any other suppliment from them.

As for Fat Burners. If you can find it.
Try get WASP or HEAT they work pretty well.


Dischem is a ripp off most of the times. Buy you suppliments through the link below.
They deliver free of charge.

One more thing , try adding BCAA into you suppliments.. They awesome. I am using the MEt-Rx Amino 3000

http://www.springbokpharmacy.co.za/Prod ... spx?cat=12
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Re: Supplement Help

Post by thealluseless »

Rather save the money on the fat burners etc and buy a heart rate monitor, it will help u train (cardio) more efficiently, tell you when you are over training and adjust cardio workouts when your body is tired/sick. Its also nice motivation when u can see plots of your previous workouts/calories burnt etc

Probably one of the best fitness purchases i have ever made
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