French vs German cars

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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

As far as I know, the French manufacturers don;t keep spares in SA, so when something goes wrong, you have to wait for the part to get here from Europe.

A lady here at the office had to replace the clutch on her C1, Citroen quoted her, and I kid you not, 10 THOUSAND rand! Luckily her father is a mechanic and he sourced the equivalent Toyota part for R900.

I would say go Jap or German.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by ryanrich »

GreyWolf wrote:I would say go Jap or German.
+1

Perhaps maybe a good Korean as well.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

Yes, Korean will also do.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by Tribble »

PC - I have a French car and I love it. Renault Scenic II. She is 6 years old and she runs like a dream. Services do get a little on the pricey side as she gets older but I had the extended service plan that lasted 4 years. I service her here in Centurion and have only been unhappy once. It all depends on the service manager.

Would I buy French again? - absolutely. Hubby has a Toyota Verso and I don't like it. Doesn't fit me and makes me feel like I am buried in a box. My car has huge windows and brilliant visibility and light. Lots of space. Love all the little hidey holes too. Not that I use them often but it is nice to have them for storing CDs and crap. She handles well and clings to the road - no drifting unless you plan it. I like that I am up high and don't have to get down to get into the car.

Test drive. I drove so many types and models and bought one that feels like an extension of me. It is a personal thing and no matter how badly you guys talk about French cars - I love mine.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

tl;dr

Chicks dig french cars...

..but then they also like sparkly vampires.

Keep it real.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by Tribble »

No to the sparkly vampire bit
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by PaperCut »

LOL @ GW!

I'm leaning toward the Honda Civic still. Just that I was passed by the very same Renault Megane Coupe that I wanted (even in the same burnt orange colour) on the N4 this weekend. I had a bit of a sad for a few minutes. Made me think really long and hard about getting it regardless of all the hearsay.

I'm really considering the Civic though. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks for the comments!
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by THE_STIG »

Tribble wrote:PC - I have a French car and I love it. Renault Scenic II. She is 6 years old and she runs like a dream. Services do get a little on the pricey side as she gets older but I had the extended service plan that lasted 4 years. I service her here in Centurion and have only been unhappy once. It all depends on the service manager.

Would I buy French again? - absolutely. Hubby has a Toyota Verso and I don't like it. Doesn't fit me and makes me feel like I am buried in a box. My car has huge windows and brilliant visibility and light. Lots of space. Love all the little hidey holes too. Not that I use them often but it is nice to have them for storing CDs and crap. She handles well and clings to the road - no drifting unless you plan it. I like that I am up high and don't have to get down to get into the car.

Test drive. I drove so many types and models and bought one that feels like an extension of me. It is a personal thing and no matter how badly you guys talk about French cars - I love mine.
Yes, there is not really anything wrong with French cars. They are pretty reliable these days. The Renault Clio II was a brilliant little car :) . As for the Toyota thing. Toyota's are rubbish now days, they look cheap and feel cheap but the price does not reflect this :?

So would I buy I French car? Well yes but my first choice will always be a German car(Mercedes).

Just one thing though tribs, 6 years is not that old. I have a 12 year old merc with 280K on the clock and everything still works. So your car should go for many years to come
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by IcePick88 »

I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.

Yes, the build quality on the lesser known brands will not be as good as say Toyota, but they are new and too be expected, but they are getting better.

People in SA are very brand loyal. Some people will only drive a Toyota or Nissa or Honda or whatever. But that is their personal choice and their opinions are biased based on their brand loyalty.

I'm buying a GWM Steed 5 D/C 4x4 at the end of the month. Was sceptical at first, but did a lot of research into the brand and they distribute all over the world, including Aus, are the biggest manufacturer for China and have been in SA for around 5 years. Spent numerous hours on 4x4 forums seeing what the guys say and what they do with their bakkie's and checked out reviews from car magazines. All of them have one thing to say. For the price, there is nothing that beats the GWM. Build quality is good (looks like an Isuzu inside), engine is good (It's got the Mitsubishi engine). And the problems they have are experienced on all other brand bakkies.

Point is.
French cars are not crap. They might be more expensive on parts or services, but they are not crap, dodgy made, unreliable cars. I've driven a friends Megane convertable, have driven a clio and have drive a Scenic, and I have found their build quality very good. I would buy French.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

IcePick88 wrote:I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.
Chana / Tata / GWM
IcePick88 wrote:I'm buying a GWM Steed 5 D/C 4x4 at the end of the month.
oops
IcePick88 wrote: They might be more expensive on parts or services, but they are not crap
Woman at work here drives a C2. Gear lever came off in her hand on the highway.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by IcePick88 »

GreyWolf wrote:
IcePick88 wrote:I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.
Chana / Tata / GWM
IcePick88 wrote:I'm buying a GWM Steed 5 D/C 4x4 at the end of the month.
oops
IcePick88 wrote: They might be more expensive on parts or services, but they are not crap
Woman at work here drives a C2. Gear lever came off in her hand on the highway.
The question I ask everyone that wants to tell me "eish" or "you gonna regret it".

Tell me why you say they are crap?
It seems you have this holier than thou attitude.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by IcePick88 »

So because of a Citroen C2 gear lever coming off, you are saying C2 models are crap, therefore the Citroen brand must crap, therefore the French brand must be crap? That is very short-sighted.

So my dads Fortuner's turbo is giving problems 3 months down the line. Oh looky, the Fortuner must then be a crap car, so Toyota is a crap brand and so is all the Jap makes?

Ford Ranger bakkie's gearbox packed up inside warranty period. Oh crap, the Ranger models are crap and therefore the Ford brand must be crap.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

IcePick88 wrote:Tell me why you say they are crap?
It seems you have this holier than thou attitude.
Not at all. Just sharing my experiences.
IcePick88 wrote:So because of a Citroen C2 gear lever coming off, you are saying C2 models are crap, therefore the Citroen brand must crap, therefore the French brand must be crap? That is very short-sighted.
Dude, chill. This is just one of a couple of things I have seen.

A couple of pages back I relayed the story of the girl who citroen wanted to charge 10k for clutch. On a c1!!!

My brothers girlfriend has a Renault and it has given her crap too.

Another friend of mine had a Cleo and it was not the most well built cars either.

The same friends mother in law had a Peugeot CC. Also problems.

All these people have different cars and different driving styles and they all experienced problems of some sort.

Am I still short sighted?
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by IcePick88 »

Yes you are.

Give me one name of a vehicle manufacturer where any person anywhere in SA has not experienced any problems with the product?

You just know more people that own a French made car than me, so you will hear more stories on how crap the car is. Disgruntled people will always bash the brand.

My point is, it's no use telling someone that a specific brand of car is crap based on hearsay. Just saying "the cars gave problems" or "I hear they are crap" because that opens it up to such a WIDE spectrum of probable issues and many probably not even due too a manufacturer fault or problem.

The age of the car should also be taken into account. How old was the above cars? Were they second hand? Did they have a full service history? Was there any after market stuff fitted? How were they driven? ect ect ect ect.

If you want to tell someone that the French cars are crap, back it up with facts and not just "Oh my friend's friend's long lost cousin drives one and it's crap".

All car manufacturers will have faults on cars. A quick recall I can think of three:

Ford Figo - Engine cuts out while decelerating. Could cause engine damage. On brand new models.
Toyota Yaris - Accelerator pedal got stuck and could cause an accident. On brand new models.
Ferrari 458 Italia - adhesive used in the wheelarch heatshield that can melt if subjected to high enough temperatures. If this happens the wheelarch might collapse in on itself, making contact with the exhaust.

Based on what you have said, surely then Ford, Toyota and even the Italian giant Ferrari must be building utter crap cars because it was all over the internet and many people experienced this.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

IcePick88 wrote:Yes you are.

Give me one name of a vehicle manufacturer where any person anywhere in SA has not experienced any problems with the product?
I think you miss the point that its not SOME of the people I know with French cars have issues. MOST of them do.
IcePick88 wrote:You just know more people that own a French made car than me, so you will hear more stories on how crap the car is. Disgruntled people will always bash the brand.
If the MAJORITY of people I know who have French cars complain about them, surely it is more then coincidence?
IcePick88 wrote:My point is, it's no use telling someone that a specific brand of car is crap based on hearsay. Just saying "the cars gave problems" or "I hear they are crap" because that opens it up to such a WIDE spectrum of probable issues and many probably not even due too a manufacturer fault or problem.
Or maybe they are just built to a lower standard?
IcePick88 wrote:The age of the car should also be taken into account. How old was the above cars? Were they second hand? Did they have a full service history? Was there any after market stuff fitted? How were they driven? ect ect ect ect.
All new or under 50k on the clock. You seem to have missed my point about them all being maintained and driven differently.
IcePick88 wrote:If you want to tell someone that the French cars are crap, back it up with facts and not just "Oh my friend's friend's long lost cousin drives one and it's crap".
Lets re-cap: I PERSONALLY know of 5 people who have issues with French cars. I have actually been driven in all the cars I mentioned, so its not second OR third hand information.

You have yet to give an example of 1 person you know who has had a good experience.

How is it that you think I am the biased one here?
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by THE_STIG »

IcePick88 wrote:I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.

Yes, the build quality on the lesser known brands will not be as good as say Toyota.......
What! Have you been in a new Toyota? It is just full of cheap plastic and painfully sharp edges around some of the handles :shock:

And there are lots of "crap" brand's, everything form China and India :?
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by IcePick88 »

Good experience with what? A French car? My sister use to drive a second hand Megane sedan. Lovely car and she drove it hassle free for 3 years before they immigrated to Aus. My brother in law did not treat the car well, but it never failed them. I used to see her once a week and never did she complain so I would have known about any problems.

My point I'm trying to make to you (more in general everyone :D ) is that you cannot label something as garbage by referencing only a select few.
THE_STIG wrote:
IcePick88 wrote:I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.

Yes, the build quality on the lesser known brands will not be as good as say Toyota.......
And there are lots of "crap" brand's, everything form China and India :?
Stig, I will ask you the same question.

On what do you base this?
And what car do you drive?
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

IcePick88 wrote:Good experience with what? A French car? My sister use to drive a second hand Megane sedan. Lovely car and she drove it hassle free for 3 years before they immigrated to Aus. My brother in law did not treat the car well, but it never failed them. I used to see her once a week and never did she complain so I would have known about any problems.
That is all you had to say. Why go of on an insulting rant?
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Re: French vs German cars

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Thumb war!
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

You know J.D.Power
Yeah those guys that does the surveys... the ones the insurance ppls look at when deciding about premiums and such...

show me a French car in the top 3 of any of the categories for 2010...
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 ... ts/page-3/

If you can find me a reputable source with statistical evidence that French is reliable then please post it or else stop arguing.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by senile »

IcePick88 wrote:
Give me one name of a vehicle manufacturer where any person anywhere in SA has not experienced any problems with the product?
My Mazda has been on the road for 17 years :shock: with about 270,000 km on the clock. Major problems include the battery that went flat once, and the other day the oil light went on briefly. . .

In my opinion the quality and longevity has much to do with your driving style. I know of 2 people, both of them are yuppies that floor it to the redline between traffic lights, and then complain about all sorts of mechanical things that go wrong. The make and model has nothing to do with it (unless it's a Fiat Uno of course)
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by GreyWolf »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:You know J.D.Power
Yeah those guys that does the surveys... the ones the insurance ppls look at when deciding about premiums and such...

show me a French car in the top 3 of any of the categories for 2010...
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/articles/2 ... ts/page-3/

If you can find me a reputable source with statistical evidence that French is reliable then please post it or else stop arguing.
Beat me to it,

But here is another link:

http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAC ... 1-siqs.pdf

Notice the first graph, notice the vehicle brand at the BOTTOM of the list.
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by THE_STIG »

IcePick88 wrote:Stig, I will ask you the same question.

On what do you base this?
And what car do you drive?
Just about every car mag says they are rubbish. I drove a Tata Indica once and words cannot describe how bad it was.

I dive a 1999 Mercedes C180 Classic with 280K on the clock and nothing major has ever gone wrong.
senile wrote:
IcePick88 wrote:
Give me one name of a vehicle manufacturer where any person anywhere in SA has not experienced any problems with the product?
My Mazda has been on the road for 17 years :shock: with about 270,000 km on the clock. Major problems include the battery that went flat once, and the other day the oil light went on briefly. . .

In my opinion the quality and longevity has much to do with your driving style. I know of 2 people, both of them are yuppies that floor it to the redline between traffic lights, and then complain about all sorts of mechanical things that go wrong. The make and model has nothing to do with it (unless it's a Fiat Uno of course)
Yea Mazda's are very reliable :) , even though Mazda's of old used to have terrible rust problems. Most Japanese cars are pretty reliable, take Honda for example you never hear owners complaining about breaking down now do you :wink:
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by SykomantiS »

No, I don't. Having said that, Civics and Accords in the US actually have a very high recall rate :( I say this as a Civic owner... That doesn't mean it's a bad car (also, I think the US model cars aren't manufactured at the same plant as ZA ones- will have to verify that though)
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Re: French vs German cars

Post by THE_STIG »

IcePick88 wrote:
THE_STIG wrote:
IcePick88 wrote:I don't think there is a crap brand of car out there any more.

Yes, the build quality on the lesser known brands will not be as good as say Toyota.......
And there are lots of "crap" brand's, everything form China and India :?
Stig, I will ask you the same question.

On what do you base this?
And what car do you drive?
I have found some more proof to support my claim that Indian and Chinese cars are rubbish:

GWM: http://www.hellopeter.com/search-reports?keyword=GWM

Cherry: http://www.hellopeter.com/search-reports?keyword=chery

Chana: http://www.hellopeter.com/search-reports?keyword=Chana


TATA: http://www.hellopeter.com/search-reports?keyword=Tata

Go and read the complaints and you will see why I say they are rubbish......
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