Worlds youngest transgender female

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Post by Tribble »

Oh come on guys. If someone is born one way and is clearly not happy - wth are they not allowed to change? I don't think he ever looked like a guy - and if he did - who cares. It is his life - soon to be hers. Are you so insecure in your own sexuality that you have to be threatened by someone on another continent?

You would swear we are going back to the dark ages. :? :wink:
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Post by D3PART3D »

:?

The kid was 10, Tribble...
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Post by Tribble »

D33 wrote:The kid was 10, Tribble...
So that means he should be unhappy? I have a 12 year old - and they are a lot older than you give them credit for at that age. Studies prove that most boys commit suicide between the ages of 9 and 16. Now you are saying that it is tough that he is incredibly unhappy with his physical appearance and should stay that way because it makes you feel more comfortable?
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Post by D3PART3D »

Yes. Tough. :twisted:
Sounds hedonistic to me - you can't always do what you think will make your child happy short-term. If your thirteen-year-old daughter thought sleeping with a zillion boys would make her happy would you let her do it?
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Post by Tribble »

Oh now don't be ridiculous. :P That is not on the same level at all. He was unhappy about who he was - not something he wanted to do. There are many people who feel that they were born into the wrong bodies. So we must just say tough - suffer because that is what makes me more comfortable. If you could help them be happy - would you really just turn your back? Each person going for a sex change - goes through months and months of therapy first - before the procedure is approved.
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Post by D3PART3D »

Okay, but why not wait until they're 18? Most of us are emo little things in our teen years anyway. All therapy does is convince the poor kid that it wants a sex change, because there is so much time being invested in the idea.
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Post by Tribble »

That would have been better - but what if the child's self loathing was so bad that he was contemplating suicide. Would you just say "Grow up little twerp - life sux so get used to it?" or would you do everything in your power to help your child?
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Post by wizardofid »

Tribble wrote:
D33 wrote:The kid was 10, Tribble...
So that means he should be unhappy? I have a 12 year old - and they are a lot older than you give them credit for at that age. Studies prove that most boys commit suicide between the ages of 9 and 16. Now you are saying that it is tough that he is incredibly unhappy with his physical appearance and should stay that way because it makes you feel more comfortable?
I have a 12 year old
Sweety what are the odds of you letting YOUR little bundle of joy turn him/her into the laughing stock of the school or the social out cast in your family...Even live with it knowing it that you made a mature choice for a immature child....

Why would you want to defend this idiot.But I'm not so sure you be willing todo the same with your own......
most boys commit suicide between the ages of 9 and 16.
You know what is the problem boys are too soft and ghey like now.Sweety when I was in primary and high school you had a problem with the kid sitting next to you....you went to your P.T teacher arrange boxing gloves and sorted it out after school with a teacher as a ref......
or if that wasn't enough we ganged up got a few friends and public enemy number one got some friends we met it in the grade 2 sand pit and sorted it out our selfs.

Sounds rough but it worked 99% of the time we were friends afterwards...

You were naughty you got donnered with a sambok...I was in the head masters office more than I was in school...I'm pretty sure that is a good way of building a man with a swift kick in the back side to keep him on the right path....

Sounds like I had a &^%uped childhood nah I would do it all over again.Compared to now I wouldn't want my child growing up to be a social outcast pansy.....

That brings me to this final point woman has not change at all over the ages still sensetive still the mother but look at what man has turned into funny enough a woman......
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Post by Tribble »

wizardofid wrote:Sweety what are the odds of you letting YOUR little bundle of joy turn him/her into the laughing stock of the school or the social out cast in your family...Even live with it knowing it that you made a mature choice for a immature child....
Put in the same position - I have no idea what I would do. But fortunately I am not.
Why would you want to defend this idiot.But I'm not so sure you be willing todo the same with your own......
I am not defending the idiot as you so eloquently put it. I am defending the right to decide and live our own lives. I would be doing the same if it was a 90 year old man.

You know what is the problem boys are too soft and ghey like now.
So because boys are not as masculine as they were - does that mean that they should not have the right to be who they feel they were meant to be?
Sweety when I was in primary and high school you had a problem with the kid sitting next to you....you went to your P.T teacher arrange boxing gloves and sorted it out after school with a teacher as a ref......
or if that wasn't enough we ganged up got a few friends and public enemy number one got some friends we met it in the grade 2 sand pit and sorted it out our selfs.

Sounds rough but it worked 99% of the time we were friends afterwards...

You were naughty you got donnered with a sambok...I was in the head masters office more than I was in school...I'm pretty sure that is a good way of building a man with a swift kick in the back side to keep him on the right path....

Sounds like I had a &^%uped childhood nah I would do it all over again.Compared to now I wouldn't want my child growing up to be a social outcast pansy.....
Even though I am female, I too got to know my headmasters very well. At primary school we were jacked just like the guys were - only on the hand where it was a darn sight more sore. Did me no harm at all.
That brings me to this final point woman has not change at all over the ages still sensetive still the mother but look at what man has turned into funny enough a woman......
I disagree - women have changed. We have become stronger and more assertive. In some families the roles are almost reversed. We do the chores around the house that our fathers used to do. But that is not the point.

This kid believed that he would never be happy as a guy - perhaps because everyone teased him for being so pretty. We are not talking gay or effeminate here - we are talking "wrong sex". He would not be happy being a guy. Whether he is 10 or 20 - that would not change.
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Post by wizardofid »

@Tribble

Put it this way he is stupid.I you can't handle being a boy well shyte happens turning him into a girly girl is not going to solve any problems...unless you erase 'its' memory because you have to walk around with guilt that you were a boy once....

There is a reason you God gave you a penis or a vagina.Use it that is why god gave you it...
Put in the same position - I have no idea what I would do. But fortunately I am not.
Sweety what gives you the right to defend his choice then.???Put your self in those shoes and see what happens.

I disagree - women have changed. We have become stronger and more assertive. In some families the roles are almost reversed. We do the chores around the house that our fathers used to do. But that is not the point.
I'm not being rude or flaming you but cleary you need to come out from under that rock you been born under.Yeah funny hey women complains that they want equal rights to men...Fine we said, here have this job as head of this company...well it didn't last long very long.The company I work for had equal rights and women didn't last very long in higher positions.Women has not gotten stronger infact there has been a higher number of suicides under women there is maniac depression under women strokes have increased under women....so yeah whatever you say
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Post by DeathStrike »

ok. i just believe that GOD made us all the way we are for a reason and we have no right to change that. but that is just my honest opinion.
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Post by wizardofid »

DeathStrike wrote:ok. i just believe that GOD made us all the way we are for a reason and we have no right to change that. but that is just my honest opinion.
yeah I didn't want to bring religion into this but whatever pretty sure that every religion would have something against it in any case.....

But I have to say like tribble said freedom of choice sure have it if he does believe in some god...he will burn in hell for it one way or another.....

That brings me to another point you can change the way you look.But your not going to change the way you think or act because deep inside you will always be a man....doesn't matter how hard you supress it ,it will come back to haunt you sooner or later......
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Post by Tribble »

wizardofid wrote:@Tribble

Put it this way he is stupid.I you can't handle being a boy well shyte happens turning him into a girly girl is not going to solve any problems...unless you erase 'its' memory because you have to walk around with guilt that you were a boy once....
You assume a lot - who says he will feel guilty.
There is a reason you God gave you a penis or a vagina.Use it that is why god gave you it...
Assuming God is real. What if he is not a Christian?
Sweety what gives you the right to defend his choice then.???Put your self in those shoes and see what happens.
The fact that I am part of the human race and have rights :P

I'm not being rude or flaming you but cleary you need to come out from under that rock you been born under.Yeah funny hey women complains that they want equal rights to men...Fine we said, here have this job as head of this company...well it didn't last long very long.The company I work for had equal rights and women didn't last very long in higher positions.Women has not gotten stronger infact there has been a higher number of suicides under women there is maniac depression under women strokes have increased under women....so yeah whatever you say

You are being rude but that is besides the point. You cannot judge all women by the ones that were hired to work at the same company as you. There are more successful women than there are failures. Strokes and suicides does not refer to the strength of the person - but to lifestyle and health. The more stress (because of all the girly men around) the more likely women are to have stress related illnesses.

But attacking women is not going to help your argument. The boy has the right to be who he wants to be.
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Post by Tribble »

DeathStrike wrote:ok. i just believe that GOD made us all the way we are for a reason and we have no right to change that. but that is just my honest opinion.
That is right - your belief determines what you do. They obviously have different beliefs to you. Therefore they are not governed by the same laws.
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Post by wizardofid »

@Tribble
Assuming God is real. What if he is not a Christian?
Like I said
yeah I didn't want to bring religion into this but whatever pretty sure that every religion would have something against it in any case.....
The fact that I am part of the human race and have rights
True, however you can't make up your own mind if it's right or wrong or for that matter say if you would allow your own child do so.....

that is what makes it pretty pointless to defend it if you have not even made up your own mind on the matter...

Point it's wrong and should not be allow rights or no rights period....This borders abortions....

It's very wrong but people have rights....

It's sad what the human race has boiled down to utterly pathetic.....
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Post by Tribble »

wizardofid wrote:True, however you can't make up your own mind if it's right or wrong or for that matter say if you would allow your own child do so.....

that is what makes it pretty pointless to defend it if you have not even made up your own mind on the matter...

Point it's wrong and should not be allow rights or no rights period....This borders abortions....

It's very wrong but people have rights....

It's sad what the human race has boiled down to utterly pathetic.....
This is not going away is it. If it was my child and I had a choice of seeing my child desperately unhappy or allowing him to become who he thought he should be - I would let him change. I would also have made a deal with him that as soon as he reached 16, and if he was still unhappy - I would let him go ahead with it. I do think the boy was too young - but it was their right to make that choice. It would not have been make lightly. There would have been a lot of thought that went into it.

Abortion is another issue. This is not the same at all - not even similar. Bet you even think it is wrong to dye your hair or pierce your ears - after all - you weren't born that way.
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Post by Judas »

wizardofid wrote:True, however you can't make up your own mind if it's right or wrong or for that matter say if you would allow your own child do so.....

that is what makes it pretty pointless to defend it if you have not even made up your own mind on the matter...

Point it's wrong and should not be allow rights or no rights period....This borders abortions....
I like the way you go from "we can't decide if it's right or wrong" to "point is it's wrong". I smell an inconsistency somewhere, I just can't put my finger on it though...

I agree that we can't decide whether it is right or wrong - it's a personal issue, not a moral issue. If it's going to enrich his life, and no one is being harmed, why should we object?
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Post by Tribble »

Thank you Judas - finally - someone who sees the bigger picture and puts it more eloquently that I :D
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Post by wizardofid »

Tribble wrote:
wizardofid wrote:True, however you can't make up your own mind if it's right or wrong or for that matter say if you would allow your own child do so.....

that is what makes it pretty pointless to defend it if you have not even made up your own mind on the matter...

Point it's wrong and should not be allow rights or no rights period....This borders abortions....

It's very wrong but people have rights....

It's sad what the human race has boiled down to utterly pathetic.....
This is not going away is it. If it was my child and I had a choice of seeing my child desperately unhappy or allowing him to become who he thought he should be - I would let him change. I would also have made a deal with him that as soon as he reached 16, and if he was still unhappy - I would let him go ahead with it. I do think the boy was too young - but it was their right to make that choice. It would not have been make lightly. There would have been a lot of thought that went into it.

Abortion is another issue. This is not the same at all - not even similar. Bet you even think it is wrong to dye your hair or pierce your ears - after all - you weren't born that way.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's the same as abortions.It's the same in an sense that both is wrong both messes with the evolutionary chain in other words messing with some thing that was ment to be....you were ment to be born/you were ment to be a boy

Do you go out in the jungle and stop a python from killing a wild buck or some thing....of course not if you do your messing with nature....some thing else will be killed when your not looking in any case....

Read it slowly ignore every human right you know.

WE WERE NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE SEX CHANGES IF WE WERE ABLE NATURE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED IT.POINT,PERIOD END OF STORY.

If you can't live with that shyte happens.

Think of land snails.


Well this following is for a good read.....
This is not going away is it. If it was my child and I had a choice of seeing my child desperately unhappy or allowing him to become who he thought he should be - I would let him change
*shakes head*Hard to believe.....

http://www.egypttoday.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1738
Some are 'trapped' in the wrong body, government feels

By Ladane Nasseri
BLOOMBERG NEWS SERVICE

February 7, 2008

TEHRAN, Iran – Nasser didn't think much of Iran's Islamic regime – until it paid for him to become a woman.



Advertisement Growing up in Mashhad, Nasser knew he was different from other boys, sneaking around in his aunt's skirts and experimenting with makeup. At age 14, he told his parents he wanted to have a sex change.
“I realized that I had a problem and that I needed to solve it through an operation,” Nasser, now 18, said at a Tehran clinic two days after he became a she called Hasti. “Even if lots of negative things are said about the regime, they also do things that are good.”

In Iran, where men and women are segregated and homosexuality is punishable by death, the government plans to spend $647,000 this year to help pay for sex-change operations. Iran's State Welfare Organization is processing 116 applications for financial aid.

Iran authorized such operations in 1984 under a decree issued by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. The government considers transsexuals to be people who are “trapped” in a body of the wrong sex, said Mohammad Mehdi Kariminia, a cleric who wrote a thesis on the rights and duties of transsexuals.

By contrast, the Koran condemns homosexuality as a “moral deviation,” Kariminia said.

The policies aren't as contradictory as they seem, because in traditional societies there is more pressure to conform to standard gender roles, said Mahdis Kamkar, a psychologist who works with transsexuals.

Nasser grew up in a religious family, shocking his parents by letting his curly hair grow and wearing tight pants and makeup. At 14, he was expelled from an all-boys school in Mashhad, a city of 2 million in northeastern Iran, because his looks and behavior were deemed “immoral.”

An article in a local magazine prompted Nasser to learn more about transsexuals. Then he turned to the Internet for more background. “Before that I thought I'm a homosexual, but fortunately I got more information and realized it wasn't the case,” Nasser said.

Nasser's transformation took four years. He worked at her uncle's clothing shop and then a candle factory to save money for the operation. At 15, he began 14 months of medical examinations and psychoanalysis to make sure he qualified for a sex change.

In May 2007, a panel of doctors gave Nasser permission for the surgery.

“It was very difficult,” said Mahsoumeh, Hasti's mother, who like her new daughter spoke on condition of anonymity. “I would go pray all night: 'God, please don't let this happen. Let him remain a boy.' ”

Nasser applied to Iran's State Welfare Organization for financial assistance, and in November the agency agreed to pay $3,800 toward the surgery.

His parents finally agreed after his father set one condition: Hasti must wear the chador, a full Islamic cover worn by women from traditional families.

The surgery lasted nine hours. The doctor, Bahram Mir Jalali, is one of about 10 sex-change surgeons in Iran. He said he has performed more than 460 operations in the past 12 years.
http://www.ksnt.com/news/also/15517592.html
DENVER, Colorado, Feb. 11, 2008 (NBC) -- The issue of being transgender usually pops up with students in high school. Now a second grade Colorado boy wants to dress as a girl and be addressed with a girl's name.

"As a public school system, our calling is to educate all kids no matter where they come from, what their background is, beliefs, values, it doesn't matter," said Whei Wong, Douglas County Schools spokesperson.

Wong says the staff at one of Douglas County's schools is preparing to accommodate the student and answer questions other students might have.

In order to protect the child as much as possible, his school or other names that might identify the child aren't being revealed.

"I see this as being a very difficult situation to explain to my daughter why someone would not want to be the gender they were born with," said concerned parent "Dave M".

His daughter will be in the same class as the student.

The student had attended this same school in years prior, but had left to go to classes in another district for about two years.

Dave M. thinks classmates will recognize the change.

"I do think that there's going to be an acknowledgment that 'Why are you in a dress this year when you were in pants last year?'" Dave said.

Wong says teachers are planning to address the student by name instead of using “he” or “she.”

The child will not use the regular boys or girls bathroom. Instead, two unisex bathrooms in the building will be made available.

The school is handing out packets to parents who have questions. The packets contain information about people who are transgender.

"I think it is unusual," said Wong. "It's something we haven't had discussions about before. It's something that we haven't maybe really had to think about before, but now we will."

Family Therapist Larry Curry hopes the child and the child's parents are seeing a counselor just to be safe.

"I am very concerned because with the guidelines in place, this is a very early age," said Curry. "I don't know too many parents who are equipped to answer that kind of question or deal with it without some other support."

Kim Pearson says the family is getting support. She is the executive director of a national organization called TransYouth Family Advocates. The group has been working with the family and Douglas County Schools.

"Initially there was a lot of resistance," said Pearson. "Now, their position is they want this child to be safe in their school."

Pearson says their group is working with an increasing number of families nationwide who have elementary age transgender kids.

"We know that families are more comfortable talking about this," she said. "There was no place for parents to go."

Pearson says children as young as five years old are realizing their true gender identity and her group wants to help parents who may be resisting the acceptance of this.

"Parents are likely to think this is a phase, but how long do phases last?" said Pearson. "With these kids, it's something that's very consistent."

That is not comforting to Dave M., who believes his daughter is not ready to think about the issue of being transgender.

"I don't think a second grader does have the rationale to decide this life-altering choice," said Dave M.

He is also unhappy with the way the school is handling this.

The district has been preparing for the child's return to this school for months.

Dave M. thinks other parents should have been made aware of this sooner.

"I just find it ironic that they can dictate the dress style of children to make sure they don't wear inappropriate clothing, but they have no controls in place for someone wearing transgender clothing," said Dave M.

Curry says parents like Dave M. should not bring the issue up to their students until they ask.

However, he says parents should be ready to answer tough questions from the student's fellow second graders.

"I think reassuring them and letting them know that they'll be okay. Their classmate is okay," said Curry. "This is something their classmate has chosen to do. It is not contagious."

Pearson says the most important thing is to make sure the transgender student does not become the target of bullying or verbal abuse which can lead to suicide.

"These children are high-risk," said Pearson. "Our number one goal is to keep kids safe."

Wong says mental health professionals will be available if students, staff, or parents have any concerns at all.

She says the district views this as just another diversity issue and hopes everyone can accept and respect the student's wishes.

"Our staff has been briefed and trained to look for concerns," said Wong.

The family of the transgender student did not want to comment.


http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2008 ... ments=show


http://www.genderpsychology.org/

have the feeling that I'm out numbered..I still stand my ground on it being wrong no watter what age...
@Judas like I said before "do whatever you like just stay away from me"..doesn't that give you enough to get the picture of me saying it's wrong and stay the hell away from me.....inconsistency.No not all.


I said it's wrong POINT 1
People Have rights POINT 2
That right should be removed POINT 3
I would avoid these people POINT 4

inconsistency?? No I still believe it's wrong just agreeing that people have rights ect....


The point is it's wrong but what I agreed with is humans have rights blah blah
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Post by Judas »

wizardofid wrote:WE WERE NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE SEX CHANGES IF WE WERE ABLE NATURE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED IT.POINT,PERIOD END OF STORY.
I hope that you realise that the argument from nature is a very, very poor one. By the same logic we could argue that clothes are bad - "if we were supposed to be covered, nature would have given us fur" - or that murder is good - "animals kill each other, so we should be able to kill each other too".

Unless you truly think that clothes, buttons and aeroplanes are bad, I call shenanigans on your hypocritical argument.
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Tribble
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Post by Tribble »

wizardofid wrote:Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's the same as abortions.It's the same in an sense that both is wrong both messes with the evolutionary chain in other words messing with some thing that was ment to be....you were ment to be born/you were ment to be a boy
But if you say God is against it - how can you talk of evolution? Do Christians believe in that now?
Wikipedia wrote:Sex change in animals

Some species are known to change sex, including reproductive functions, in special circumstances, such as the clownfish. A school of clownfish is always built into a hierarchy with a female fish at the top. When she dies, the most dominant male changes sex and takes her place. See Hermaphrodite for more details.
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_change

So these fish go against evolution do they? Rabbits can do it too and certain frogs. So it is part of nature.
wizardofid wrote:have the feeling that I'm out numbered..I still stand my ground on it being wrong no watter what age...
So in other words - doesn't matter how rational my argument - you have decided not actually think about this. Your mind is made up.
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Post by hamin_aus »

Wiz you have lost the plot big time in this thread my man.

You aren't even making sense anymore.

As I have said this little German was too young to be given his own way IMHO.
I would have been happy for him if he had started these treatments at a proper age, but hey, I don't even have or want kids, so who am I to judge.

I also knew religion would come into this, but I say to hell with your religion if you are going to use it to try and force your moral beliefs on people.
Most of Western Europe is converting to atheism. I think the chances of this boy and his family being very religion are slim. Thank goodness we now live in a world where what we can and cannot do is not governed by some book written thousands of years ago by fishermen and goat herders!

There are too many people in this world trying to convert from one sex to another for you to dismiss it out of hand the way you do.
This is a problem and always has been. I do believe there are people out there born male whose brain might be wired like females. And vice versa.
Science has done a lot to show the differences between men and womens brains and how they work. You should read up on that.
But you probably wont because you don't want to hear anything that might cast a shadow over your Gods perfect creation. In his own image, nogal....
Tell me, what sex is God :?:
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Post by wizardofid »

Judas wrote:
wizardofid wrote:WE WERE NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE SEX CHANGES IF WE WERE ABLE NATURE WOULD HAVE ALLOWED IT.POINT,PERIOD END OF STORY.
I hope that you realise that the argument from nature is a very, very poor one. By the same logic we could argue that clothes are bad - "if we were supposed to be covered, nature would have given us fur" - or that murder is good - "animals kill each other, so we should be able to kill each other too".

Unless you truly think that clothes, buttons and aeroplanes are bad, I call shenanigans on your hypocritical argument.
animals kill each other, so we should be able to kill each other too".
Look around BOY people kill people every day with rights or no rights........
able
able is the wrong word idiot....do is the word your looking for.....

Are we not animals after all???We act like them have social interactions much the same way they do cluster together...procreate...only really difference between them and us is the canny ability to think we are superior to them..because we think we are smart.We are primitive to compared to most animals.....
By the same logic we could argue that clothes are bad
Your an idoit at best yeah...We have evolved into what we are to day less hair blah blah because we started wearing clothes a few million years ago and became less depended on our body to keep us warm...ect Pretty much the same as the rest of the animals have evolved.....on this world...
nature would have given us fur
Mabye you need a lesson in history.nature did indeed give us fur.....and several layers of skin as well as having the ability to shiver to try and keep our body warm....
Unless you truly think that clothes, buttons and aeroplanes are bad, I call shenanigans on your hypocritical argument.
Your narrow mindedness is truely awsome and primitive.....

My reason I'm calling you an idiot is because you think you are superior to animals....
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Post by D3PART3D »

Wiz, no need to throw tantrums... I think a sex change would do you good :P
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Post by wizardofid »

@tribble
But if you say God is against it - how can you talk of evolution? Do Christians believe in that now?
It's hard not to see evolution taking place the evidence is there...for every one to see...and it's not as simple to dismiss God as well as it has a lot of evidence as well.....

Lucky for me I'm not narrow minded I will always see both sides of the story like the links on the previous page it doesn't do my point of it being wrong any good at all...


@jamin
Yeah well jamin it happens some times.....
But you probably wont because you don't want to hear anything that might cast a shadow over your Gods perfect creation. In his own image, nogal....
Tell me, what sex is God
:lol: :lol: :lol: Male who knows????? :o
Science has done a lot to show the differences between men and womens brains and how they work. You should read up on that.
I love it...I love the part where the brain is a greedy little B#st%rd and slows down body development to feed it's development in the womb ......Yeah jamin I love reading about stuff like that bring it on
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