Lapping your Heatsink..Lesson 1

Push it to the max but make sure that you keep it cool!
naughty
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Post by naughty »

I34z1k wrote:Going up to 8 thousand you would make it a dam mirror. It will help, a bit, but in my opinion is not worth all that effort.
actually in all reality - going higher than 800 makes almost no difference - or i should say that the difference is negligible

the 1000 and 1200 and 2000 grit is all redundant - ive lapped a few heatsinks and waterblocks in my time :wink: (written a few guides on those in websites too) and its already been researched that above 800 grit is a bit of a waste - and only enhances the look and not the functionality

to use the waterpaper in the proper manner and getting the base flat is more important than going to a mirror finish - since if the base is rough but flat the thermal interface material (ie thermal compound) will fill in the gaps ....... that is what its there for
He is right. It does void the warranty. If the supplier does not ask questions, you are lucky. If they do, you are unlucky and will not have your cpu exchanged.

Standard practice is that it must be installed by a certified techie. Also, the cpu label must be in the inside of the box. To prove that it was purchased for that box (and removing it defaces the label) and is not allowed to be used in another box.

Same as the Windows label on the side of the box. Lately you are allowed to install the windows on another machine if the previous machine has been formatted, recycled or had the OS removed. Only problem with that is that you are not legally permitted to remove the label from the side of the box. So if you install the OS on another machine, you are not allowed to move the label - which makes it an illegal copy (without the label).
yes sir - reading the warranty terms is all very well - it tells you what is applicable in terms of the warranty and what isnt - but how many cpu's or any other items have you RMA'ed

heres a small tip

doing things in practice and reading about them in a warranty booklet is two different things :wink:

also about the windows - if you have the OEM version you cannot install it onto another machine - even if you remove it from the first - you need the retail version to do that - read the EULA again properly - and its not only "lately" that the terms of the EULA apply - its been like this forever - methinks you shouldnt be clicking on the "i agree" when installing windows if you dont know what you are agreeing to :wink:
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Post by Pervasive »

doing things in practice and reading about them in a warranty booklet is two different things
You Think? :roll:

The point being that the exchange or replacement of your hardware is subject to a warranty - and this obviously has guidelines.

Merely because of the fact that most suppliers do not check - or rather care to check - what you did with the hardware and will undoubtedly just swop it out - as they in turn just send it back and get credited with no questions asked, does not affect the suppliers who actually go through all the mess and fuss to check this.

Once again, the point being that there are suppliers who will go through the trouble to have the hardware checked. It is better for somebody reading this forum to know that there are certain limitations and risks involved - as opposed to blindly jumping in and trying it and then not have their hardware replaced.
and its not only "lately" that the terms of the EULA apply - its been like this forever
However it is only lately that your windows version and product key is verified before you are able to install certain updates - such as ie7 or media player 11 - or you have to activate windows within 30 days in order to be able to keep using the OS. A few years ago, this was not the case. Product keys were only verified - or rather compared to keys known to have leaked - when you installed a service pack. :wink:
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Post by naughty »

Merely because of the fact that most suppliers do not check - or rather care to check - what you did with the hardware and will undoubtedly just swop it out - as they in turn just send it back and get credited with no questions asked, does not affect the suppliers who actually go through all the mess and fuss to check this.
how many of them do that - knowing that they have a certain allocation of stock for warranty purposes which will get replaced by the manufacturer anyway without question - the guys who do go through things with a fine tooth comb are actually small fries IMHO - and to be totally honest RMA'ing isnt an everyday occurence - its very rare thus when hardware failure within the warranty period does occur most of the big guys just replace rather than waste time and effort on looking at underlying reasons behind why they occurred (which can rarely be proved anyway - and notice i did not say "cannot" be proved since if you lap something or remove TIM it stands out like a sore thumb)
It is better for somebody reading this forum to know that there are certain limitations and risks involved - as opposed to blindly jumping in and trying it and then not have their hardware replaced.
yes sir 100% agreed on that point
The point being that the exchange or replacement of your hardware is subject to a warranty - and this obviously has guidelines.
agreed again - but sometimes the people involved have been known to use their discretion - considering at a hazarded guess maybe 5 out of 1000 cpus go bad and also considering that this is already built into the cost im sure most suppliers just wont bother

However it is only lately that your windows version and product key is verified before you are able to install certain updates - such as ie7 or media player 11 - or you have to activate windows within 30 days in order to be able to keep using the OS. A few years ago, this was not the case. Product keys were only verified - or rather compared to keys known to have leaked - when you installed a service pack.
and this has to do what exactly with being able to legally install an OEM version of windows into another machine vs that being done with a retail version ???????????

random facts not pertinent to the argument (no matter how clever they seem at first glance) dont mean diddly squat when they dont relate to the issue -so making statements contrived to make you seem clever do not really mean that you are replying to the issue at hand
Once again, the point being that there are suppliers who will go through the trouble to have the hardware checked
well not having come across one of those im barely qualified to comment on that - not saying it doesnt happen - but if it does its probably when the terms have been blatantly ignored - i mean off course guys wont replace chips with physical burn marks or where its obvious that the item "fried" cos it was run too far above its spec - but there are some minor transgressions generally overlooked
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Post by Pervasive »

the guys who do go through things with a fine tooth comb are actually small fries
Which is where most people buy spares from. Not everybody reading this forum has the resources to buy from wholesalers and manufacturers. Most people actually buy their spares from retailers.
and to be totally honest RMA'ing isnt an everyday occurence
Which is why somebody who has no experience in this field and is reading this forum wanting to lap something should know the pros and cons before doing it.
and this has to do what exactly with being able to legally install an OEM version of windows into another machine vs that being done with a retail version?
You brought up the OEM and retail issue. I said
Only problem with that is that you are not legally permitted to remove the label from the side of the box. So if you install the OS on another machine, you are not allowed to move the label - which makes it an illegal copy (without the label).
Unless of course you have purchased a license package where you receive ten licenses for one premises or you have purchased the retail version. it is the responsibility of every person who installs an OS - or any other software for that matter - to know what is stated in the EULA.

Lately more so than ever, you receive a free OEM Windows with most retail machines. That OS was intended for that machine only, besides when you buy your next retail machine (as most people do) you will receive a new OEM OS which (probably) will at that time be more advanced than the one you have on the older machine.

This raises the question, why would you install an older OS on a new machine when you have received a new OS?

Another thing, since you cannot buy an OEM OS, don't you agree that a person building their own machine would have to buy the retail version? and a person only buying retail machines won't care to install their older OS on a new machine.

Also, Microsoft is becoming more strict on the OS issue. They will allow you to activate your software on a new machine (about five times) as it would be seen as an upgrade (on motherboard and CPU). However, they will not let you activate your software on a different machine every week. The timespan is monitored. and the amount of times you can transfer the software is also limited.

Now, to get back to
but there are some minor transgressions generally overlooked
which is exactly why I said:
If the supplier does not ask questions, you are lucky
Now this also relates to when there is no evidence that something went wrong - as then, most suppliers would naturally not ask too many questions, especially when you are a regular customer. However, there are some who go out of their way to check the parts. But yes, mostly they use their own discretion.

It seems to me that we are both agreeing to -more or less- the same argument. "We are just approaching the zenith from different sides of the mountain"
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Post by Cupis »

well not a problem for me then... since im a qualified techie... i can "void"
warrenty s because i am qaulified :P lol if only that was completely true... a supplier wouldn't replace lets say a hardrive that a voided by opening the case... even though im a qaulified technician... or have a lost the plot all tgather... you never know with me anymore P

sorry the way these guys going on..... i even forgot what the topic was :oops: my frendz lapped the took 4 hours to do... lol shame...

but are there not some cpu coolers that come pre-lapped to a certian degreee... a good degree if you wondering..

like the Zalman 9500 (never rememer all those other letters) i asked my friend if it was worth to lapp that and he said that it is lapped pretty well already. and it might take off like 1 deg... any of you varify that?
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Post by naughty »

Another thing, since you cannot buy an OEM OS, don't you agree that a person building their own machine would have to buy the retail version
nope - when you buy that versaion of windows xp pro with service pack two from retailers like pc zone you are getting the OEM version (it even says so on the disc) and when you buy the machine with the label on the side thats also an OEM version - thats why i brought it up - since you say that lately you can change that O/S to another machine - you cannot and never could (legally that is) even though it will allow you to activate and download whatever you want

so what i said was pertinent to the issue at hand - whereas you are "losing the plot" somewhere (paraphrasing from somewhere above)
Most people actually buy their spares from retailers
earlier you used the word suppliers - the retailers are not suppliers - suppliers who worry about the RMA's are guys like rectron and esquire and sahara etc - the retailers wont bother you too much since the supplier will not worry them too much and the supplier isnt worried cos the manufacturer/wholesaler doesnt bother too much - but remember the word supplier will never apply to the retailers
besides when you buy your next retail machine (as most people do) you will receive a new OEM OS which (probably) will at that time be more advanced than the one you have on the older machine.
not stated anywhere above - new machines never came into it at all (until you saw fit to introduce this afterward)

thus .....this
This raises the question, why would you install an older OS on a new machine when you have received a new OS?
is not pertinent
"We are just approaching the zenith from different sides of the mountain"
but you are making a mountain out of issues such as lapping which most suppliers would generally see as a minor transgression
like the Zalman 9500 (never rememer all those other letters) i asked my friend if it was worth to lapp that and he said that it is lapped pretty well already. and it might take off like 1 deg... any of you varify that?
i didnt lap mine and my cpu idles at 36degrees at stock ie a 4800+ at 2.4ghz and it also idles at 45degrees when overclocked to 2.8ghz with 1.5volts and full load is around 50 degrees

im sure it will benefit from lapping - but you could easilly check wether you should ie get a stamp pad (water based) and apply the base to the stamp pad - then place a sheet of paper on a totally flat surface such as a glass coffee table then basically stamp the sheet with the base of the HSF lightly - if the resulting stamp has no gaps or "holes" ie if its a solid layer of the ink colour then it doesnt need lapping ....in which case just wash the ink off - but if there are gaps then you need to lap the base in which case after lapping repeat the test and continue lapping until you get a solid rectangular square of ink with no gaps inbetween - then and only then is it truly flat enough
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Post by Pervasive »

when you buy that versaion of windows xp pro with service pack two from retailers like pc zone you are getting the OEM version (it even says so on the disc) and when you buy the machine with the label on the side thats also an OEM version
No, when you buy that version from the retailer or supplier, it is the DSP version. This is the same as the retail version, without the box. The same goes for Norton Antivirus OEM (for sale and with a new pc - Which is given away on a 3 month trial, or bought without the box) and the like. The difference is: a DSP copy might say OEM - because it has no box and fancy frills - but it is not the same as the OEM version (which comes with a new pc - and only with a new pc - and cannot be bought). The OEM version is labelled according to the manufatcturer (HP, LG, and so on). It has a HP logo (for instance) printed on a Windows disc.

This does not make the DSP windows disc (even if labeled OEM) an OEM disc. A DSP and an OEM disc can both be activated 5 times, but it is illegal to activate the OEM disc on more than one machine. The difference is in the product key and the product version number. And this is not the build no, the product version is stored on the disc and is checked in conjunction with the product key. This means that -on the new winxp- you will no longer be able to install windows xp on several machines using the same disc and diffirent product keys - unless you have bought a license pack (before that becomes an issue too)

Getting back to suppliers and retailers. Yes Esquire is one of the suppliers who gives trouble on warranties. Which is why I don't buy from them anymore. Even if nothing has been modified on the part, they still don't want to swop it out - Wheras Wavestone doesn't have a problem.

The retailers, on the other hand, give problemss too. Have you tried to swop out memory from PC Worx? I have. It is not a very enticing experience. You tend to lose your money and go buy the part from C.C.
not stated anywhere above - new machines never came into it at all (until you saw fit to introduce this afterward)
As did OEM and retail software.....
but you are making a mountain out of issues such as lapping which most suppliers would generally see as a minor transgression
Which is why I said
Merely because of the fact that most suppliers do not check - or rather care to check - what you did with the hardware and will undoubtedly just swop it out - as they in turn just send it back and get credited with no questions asked, does not affect the suppliers who actually go through all the mess and fuss to check this.
Obviously stating that all suppliers, retailers, wholesalers and manufacturers do no check what happened to the parts, but some do. Hence, be aware that it is a posibility that the organisation which sold you the part might check whether it was damaged or whether it was faulty from the date of sale.
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Post by naughty »

okay - ill concede to all your points - now lets get back to the lapping
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Post by Cupis »

here here to that ...... back to lapping
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Post by Dust »

Hey just finished lapping of my Gigabyte 3D RocketCooler.

Came down from 24deg idle to 18deg!!!
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Post by KillerByte »

naughty wrote: im sure it will benefit from lapping - but you could easilly check wether you should ie get a stamp pad (water based) and apply the base to the stamp pad - then place a sheet of paper on a totally flat surface such as a glass coffee table then basically stamp the sheet with the base of the HSF lightly - if the resulting stamp has no gaps or "holes" ie if its a solid layer of the ink colour then it doesnt need lapping ....in which case just wash the ink off - but if there are gaps then you need to lap the base in which case after lapping repeat the test and continue lapping until you get a solid rectangular square of ink with no gaps inbetween - then and only then is it truly flat enough
cool tip
thanx


think i'll lap my zalman. its nearly a year old and i've reapplied heat past numerous times.
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Post by krepunk »

What about lapping of the cpu itself?
Anyone ever done it?
They have an article in the NAG about it, they got some pretty good results... I'm thinking of doing it to my E6600 :)
Last edited by krepunk on 16 Mar 2007, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by viceroy »

krepunk wrote:What about lapping of the cpu itself?
Anyone have ever done it?
They have an article in the NAG about it, they got some pretty good results... I'm thinking of doing it to my E6600 :)
I wouldn't
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Post by Dust »

Ill try it but not on my current CPU, mabe my old S939 Athlon64 3500+ Venice :twisted:
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Post by viceroy »

Well goo luck, but I don't think you'll see any gains.

you'll get better gains by using a high quality thermal paste
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Post by Dust »

Where I live, I can't get my hands on Artic Silver. Closest I got was Antec's Pro 5 Silver.
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Post by krepunk »

And you live where?
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Post by KillerByte »

Artic Silver's latest version of Artic Silver 5
i'm going to get my next tube soon.
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Post by Rayne »

I've been using the same set for over 3 years now.

Btw of course you can, order it online.
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Post by KillerByte »

doobs and i will be lapping my zalman this weekend. its just a stop gap measure till i get my Enzotech Ultra-x

but at least my brothers e6300 will have a nice lapped Zalman.
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Post by ADV4NCED »

@KB you gonna lap the enzotech Ultra-X?

Every review I've read said it makes great contact and that the shiny base is extremely level and has one of the best mirror like finishes.

You can use the shiny heatsink base as a mirror - literally.
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Post by KillerByte »

no. not going to lap the enzotech.
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Post by maxxis »

Dust wrote:Where I live, I can't get my hands on Artic Silver. Closest I got was Antec's Pro 5 Silver.
Thats some pretty good stuff.

Im replacing my Vapochill's paste with this tonight.
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Post by KillerByte »

i've been using that stuff for a while. when i buy new heatsinks i give the crap stuff to my friends. I only use arctic silver 5.
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Post by DAE_JA_VOO »

KillerByte wrote:when i buy new heatsinks i give the crap stuff to my friends. I only use arctic silver 5.
That's awfully nice of you :D

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