Planning a Network

Network problem solving and tweaks
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doo_much
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Planning a Network

Post by doo_much »

As the title says.

I need to plan a network that'll cater for ~1500 IP devices (access controllers). Devices require a static IP address.

Final development (5 phases) will have 25 buildings/4 floors each /~14 devices per floor.

We're talking low amounts of data - although I would like to run fibre between the buildings just in case I can convince the developer to go for IP cameras on every floor as well.

Where do I start?

And then - how much maintenance will something like this need?
Development is in the Northern Cape so if needs be I'll employ someone to do the day-to-day stuff.
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
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Re: Planning a Network

Post by Nuke »

Its hard to plan a network on just what you gave us. Physical layout, budget, future growth is a few quick things I can think of that needs to be taken into account.

Can you run fiber? I mean can you dig trenches between buildings without digging up other services? Or the danger that the fiber is going to be dug up? Fiber is always king, but if you can't, carrier wireless is an option. Btw try to use GBICs directly in your switches, and not fiber converters, less can go wrong that way.

What can you spend? Going cheap on networks is a sure way of getting very frustrated (also fired).

Also, when a network is in, people always want new services on it. Internet, voice, cameras, wireless APs will not take long to follow, because "there is a network, lets use it"

Personally I would use a Vlan per floor(I'm just talking about the access control). Maybe Cisco 2960 for the access switches, and a 3560 as distribution switch on the bottom floor of each building. You can then slot your fiber GBICs directly into your switch. I would try to run the fiber in a ring between buildings, so if any fiber link gets broken RSTP on layer 2 or EIGRP/OSPF on layer 3 can fix that.
On a network this size I wouldn't bother with a dedicated core network, the distribution layer hardware is good enough for that.
If you can't run fiber, I would use Radwin links between buildings. There is some other great wireless solutions out there too, but I know Radwin well.

If there is no (l)users on the network maintenance should be very little. If prober hardware is used and there goes nothing seriously wrong(lighting etc), it can run for years.

Feel free to ask, I quite enjoy designing networks.
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doo_much
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Re: Planning a Network

Post by doo_much »

Thanks for the reply Nuke. Please note that the purpose of this exercise is to get my mind around the basic requirements for this network in order to enable me to make some kind of pitch to the developer with illustrative pricing. (Which means take retail prices, add 25% and pray.)
If they buy into my 'dream', I'll pay someone good money to do proper planning and costing.
Nuke wrote:Its hard to plan a network on just what you gave us. Physical layout, budget, future growth is a few quick things I can think of that needs to be taken into account.

This is for a quote, so in theory I don't have a budget. Which also means that if I quote too much I don't get the job.

Can you run fiber? I mean can you dig trenches between buildings without digging up other services? Or the danger that the fiber is going to be dug up? Fiber is always king, but if you can't, carrier wireless is an option. Btw try to use GBICs directly in your switches, and not fiber converters, less can go wrong that way.

Green fields development so the developer will do all my trenching for me.
See my OP - I want to go fibre, partly because of your point below. If I have an existing, solid, network backbone available, the onselling of additional services becomes my prerogative. I intend selling them IP cameras. And they have a woolly dream of providing 'wifi'. I intend selling them that as well. VOIP telephony? Not likely but I won't slam the door in their faces if they ask.


What can you spend? Going cheap on networks is a sure way of getting very frustrated (also fired).

See above re budget. And I won't fire myself. ;)

Also, when a network is in, people always want new services on it. Internet, voice, cameras, wireless APs will not take long to follow, because "there is a network, lets use it"

In this case I am 'people' - and I intend profiting from it. See above

Personally I would use a Vlan per floor(I'm just talking about the access control). Maybe Cisco 2960 for the access switches, and a 3560 as distribution switch on the bottom floor of each building. You can then slot your fiber GBICs directly into your switch. I would try to run the fiber in a ring between buildings, so if any fiber link gets broken RSTP on layer 2 or EIGRP/OSPF on layer 3 can fix that.

I was kinda thinking of running a star topology - central hub/server to each building with wireless as a backstop (not necessarily installed, but available) in case of failure. Part of my reason for this is that the development will occur in stages.

On a network this size I wouldn't bother with a dedicated core network, the distribution layer hardware is good enough for that.
Can you explain please? Is this something I can implement later on or do I have to cater for it now?
If you can't run fiber, I would use Radwin links between buildings. There is some other great wireless solutions out there too, but I know Radwin well.
I don't think 200 Mbps will cut it - especially if I start supplying those extras. How expensive are their point-to-point solutions though? Will need for backstop.

If there is no (l)users on the network maintenance should be very little. If prober hardware is used and there goes nothing seriously wrong(lighting etc), it can run for years.

Thanks - if I start on-selling services I'll need someone in any case. But that won't happen in the first year of development.

Feel free to ask, I quite enjoy designing networks.

Thanks - I will!
OK - coloured stuff above refers.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

• I plan for fibre from my server control room (think dingy closet in back of security office for now) to each building's distribution switch. (Cisco 3560 with 1000BASE-T interface converter). What hardware (switch) do I need at the central hub at this stage(only access control)?

• CAT6 to every floor's Cisco 2960 (24 port - 8 ports with POE for cameras - 2 spare?) How 'hardy' are these switches - can I chuck them into a cupboard with a UPS or do they need a really clean environment?

• CAT5e/6 to every access controller on that floor.

Right so far?

Which means I'm looking at ~R86k per building for switches only? (1*3560 24port + 3*2960 24port) That's at the prices from http://www.impactisp.co.za.

R2.15m? Sheesh - and I thought the biometric readers were going to be bad! :shock:
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
doo_much
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Re: Planning a Network

Post by doo_much »

Anyone?
MOOD - Thirsty

A surprising amount of modern pseudoscience is coming out of the environmental sector. Perhaps it should not be so surprising given that environmentalism is political rather than scientific.
Timothy Casey
SamSed
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Re: Planning a Network

Post by SamSed »

Hi there,

I am currently doing my CCDP and I might assist you as I am involved with most things in my network, (physical and logical) :!: and putting proposals & recommendations forward for procurement is my game. . . . . .

We also use Biometrics in our environment and I am busy planning to move over to FULL IP Based systems, not a partial or hybrid IP Based system (becarefull regarding the equipment being sold to you)

There is a lot of questions regarding the planned installation you want to set forward,
1. Large Network but doable,
2. Yes Cisco is expensive but will not failover for nothing,
3. Video might be low in data but you want quality, and continious streaming, otherwise its useless if you cannot see the face clearly ! and Some Cameras got Voice recording as well so look at those too. QoS
4. there is no other option than to use fiber between floors and buildings, go for CAT6 from switch to CAM and readers as cost is not that huge difference between CAT 5 and CAT 6, think about 5 years down the line, build a MESH topology between the floors and buildings for failover, no excuses.
5. you dont need a UPS on every floor per cabinet because you get readers that have back up batteries on the floors but for the swithes (Cameras) you might invest in at least a 2 KVA UPS (APC or Eaton) can be managed via network !
6. 14 Devices states that you cannot just put these device in a closet, you need an aircon to cool them down as POE devices tend to be hotter than normal, (protect your investment !) not forgetting the UPS's too,
7. Which Camera and Biometric brand are you going to use as you can integrate it into your existing Network infrastructure too, meaning if you have POE switches currently you can look for a solution from Cisco, What type of Backbone routers do you have?

There is a huge list of things that you need to look out for, I hope this input given will put you on the right track.

I need to plan a network that'll cater for ~1500 IP devices (access controllers). Devices require a static IP address.

Final development (5 phases) will have 25 buildings/4 floors each /~14 devices per floor.

We're talking low amounts of data - although I would like to run fibre between the buildings just in case I can convince the developer to go for IP cameras on every floor as well.
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