The IPv6 migration thread

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-Prometheus-
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by -Prometheus- »

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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 03 Apr 2011, 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Ron2K »

^^ We've been assigned a /32 of IPv6 space, which is more addresses than the entire IPv4 space. ;)

In the South African context, the problem is Telkom's IPConnect product that us ISPs have to use to connect our networks with Telkom's ADSL network - it doesn't support IPv6, and while technically we may be able to roll out IPv6 on our own networks, Telkom's limitations mean that we can't assign IPv6 addresses to ADSL subscribers at this time (which is a bit of a moot point at the moment, since I've yet to see a home router that supports IPv6, but still...).
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by -Prometheus- »

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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 02:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by jee »

OK - lets see if my understanding is correct (this will effect us and we pay a few millions to our service provider per year - and am planning to roll out several more sites in the next few years)
* The ISP should support both v 4 and 6
* If they don't certain sites will not be browsed - why?
* Hardware like routers should be configurable to both v4 and v6?
* If not, the routers will have to be replaced?
* What other peripherals will be affected?
* Will this affect my current VSATS?
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

Central IPv4 address pool is almost used up...
According to projections by APNIC Chief Scientist Geoff Huston, IANA's central IPv4 address pool is expected to run out any day now, leaving the internet with a very limited remaining supply of addresses. APNIC will probably request two /8s (33 million addresses) within the next few weeks. This will leave five /8s available, which will be immediately distributed to the five Regional Internet Registries in accordance with IANA policy. It's expected that APNIC's own address pool will run low during 2011, making ISPs and businesses in the Asia-Pacific region the first to feel the effects of IPv4 exhaustion. The long-term solution to IP address exhaustion is provided by IPv6, the next version of the Internet Protocol. IPv6 has been an internet standard for over a decade, but is still unsupported on many networks and makes up an almost negligible fraction of Internet traffic. Unless ISPs dramatically accelerate the pace of IPv6 deployment, users in some regions will be stuck on IPv4-only connections while ISPs in other regions run out of public IPv4 addresses, leading to a fragmented Internet without the universal connectivity we've previously taken for granted.
Source
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

IANA has now allocated the last blocks of IPv4 space to the regional registries.
Following on from APNIC's earlier assessment that they would need to request the last available /8 blocks, they have now been allocated 39/8 and 106/8, triggering IANA's final distribution of blocks to the RIRs. According to the release, 'APNIC expects normal allocations to continue for a further three to six months.'
Source

The regional registries are responsible (amongst other things) for allocating their assigned IP address pool to organisations that need IPv4 space (primarily ISPs). There are five: AfriNIC (Africa), ARIN (North America), APNIC (Asia, Australia, New Zealand), LACNIC (Central and South America) and RIPE NCC (Europe, Middle East, Central Asia). APNIC currently has the highest burn rate of the regional registries, so those guys will be the first to run out of IPv4 addresses; AfriNIC has the slowest burn rate.
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jamin, if you're reading this - you guys will be feeling the squeeze first; what's the IPv6 migration plans like over in your part of the world?
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by jee »

jee wrote:OK - lets see if my understanding is correct (this will effect us and we pay a few millions to our service provider per year - and am planning to roll out several more sites in the next few years)
* The ISP should support both v 4 and 6
* If they don't certain sites will not be browsed - why?
* Hardware like routers should be configurable to both v4 and v6?
* If not, the routers will have to be replaced?
* What other peripherals will be affected?
* Will this affect my current VSATS?
any takers?
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by hamin_aus »

well with Egypt no longer on the internet, surely we can take their IPv4 addresses and put them back in the pool :D
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

jee wrote:OK - lets see if my understanding is correct (this will effect us and we pay a few millions to our service provider per year - and am planning to roll out several more sites in the next few years)
* The ISP should support both v 4 and 6
For an interim yes but the ultimite would be that all ISP's everywhere only employ v6 then there won't be any issues.
jee wrote: * If they don't certain sites will not be browsed - why?
If you are on a IPv4 address and no NAT or PAT is employed to stranslate your requests into an IPv6 range then you will not be able to see the other server as your IP lookup will look for IPv4 and as such you won't get the destination where to send the packet. No addressable address = no communication
jee wrote: * Hardware like routers should be configurable to both v4 and v6?
Some high end core routers are IPv4 and IPv6 capable but internally in your network you can run whatever you like if you employ NAT which your firewall does in any case.
jee wrote: * If not, the routers will have to be replaced?
Correctamundo
jee wrote: * What other peripherals will be affected?
Anything using an IP and/or Ethernet interface with which to send and/or receive data. Printers, IP Phones, routers, desktops, laptops, Wi-Fi phones....... the list goes on and on and on
jee wrote: * Will this affect my current VSATS?
Most definitively.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by jee »

Thanks Ruad... that is rather serious...
"Integrity" and "integer" both contain a Latin root meaning "whole; complete." The root sense, then, is that people may be said to be acting with integrity when their beliefs, words, and actions have a sense of unity or wholeness.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

jee, here's a useful FAQ that might explain things somewhat to you.
Last edited by Ron2K on 01 Feb 2011, 12:37, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Found a better FAQ. :)
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Ye I am not the best to explain this stuff as it is not my field but I can use some common sense..... sometimes :P
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by wizardofid »

@RuadRauFlessa
Having a blond moment here.

How will it affect hardware.In other words cellphones, network cards any thing network related.?
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

Well if a device is only able to connect and send messages to an IPv4 address it stands to reason that it will not be able to send to a device with an IPv6 address.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by wizardofid »

RuadRauFlessa wrote:Well if a device is only able to connect and send messages to an IPv4 address it stands to reason that it will not be able to send to a device with an IPv6 address.
But ISP's could essentially translate if needed.... :?:
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

wizardofid wrote:@RuadRauFlessa
Having a blond moment here.

How will it affect hardware.In other words cellphones, network cards any thing network related.?
What's important for compatibility reasons is that the software supports dual-stack - in other words, it can run both IPv4 and IPv6 simultaneously. PC operating systems are fine: Windows has had a production quality implementation of IPv6 since Service Pack 1 of Windows XP, and it's been enabled by default since Vista (and Server 2008) onwards. Linux and Mac OS X guys are similarly covered. In terms of applications, newer stuff should support both, although legacy applications may still support IPv4 only.

The hardware people are the ones who need to catch up. I've yet to encounter a home ADSL router that's IPv6 capable (and my mails to D-Link enquiring about this have bounced), although I'm guessing that the enterprise level stuff supports dual stack. With the home equipment, it's possible that a firmware upgrade will be all that's needed (unless the network stack itself resides in non-programmable ROM), but it's more likely that the home router manufacturers will see this as an opportunity to make a quick buck and just sell us new kit. That's a whole lot of e-waste that's about to be generated...

On the networking side of things, the ISPs are currently hamstrung by Telkom. ISPs generally fall into two categories: those that have their own network (Internet Solutions, MWEB, Web Africa) and those who resell someone else's network (e.g. Afrihost is an Internet Solutions reseller). The guys with their own network need to link up with Telkom's phone line infrastructure to provide ADSL products, and Telkom provides them with a product called IPConnect that enables them to do just that. Problem is, it doesn't support IPv6. The networks that don't need this kind of interaction are better prepared: TENET (which provides network access to various tertiary institutions) is, from what I've heard, IPv6 ready, with active IPv6 work being done on some (but not all) of the campuses that it connects.

Network cards are the one thing that you don't have to worry about though. They operate at Level 1/2 of the OSI model; the IP protocol operates at Level 4.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

WonWon IP based network phones are stuffed.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by wizardofid »

@Ron2K
:wink: thanks

@RuadRauFlessa
Yeah that was my question.....So my nokia is eventually doomed....
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

@Wiz: Depends what you use it for. Remember that for GSM your phone registers onto the network with the IMEI or some such number as a cellphone network is not actually IP based. It works with phased bands and time slot allocation within the registered communication band. Too complicated to explain right now. The thing is though that your phone does use 3G and when it makes the data connection it goes onto an IP based network and that portion of it should or rather could have an issue. I am not sure exactly how the communication and addressing for 3G/HSDPA works but from what I gather it will also have a problem. Luckily I have an Android phone which should not have an issue seeing as Linux does not have an issue. I have rooted my phone and can tell you there is already a spot in the config where I can go shop it over to use IPv6 addressing. One more reason to go Android and not iFail.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

^^ I've noticed with the 3G networks that typically NAT is implemented in a big way (i.e. a whole horde of users behind one public IP address). The problem here is that NAT is a quick fix and not a long term solution; it breaks end-to-end connectivity and generally makes troubleshooting networking issues a lot harder. And then, if you're hosting something behind the public/private barrier, there's the accompanying port forwarding hassle...
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by wizardofid »

So it is a near guarantee, that public awareness is not going to happen till the last minute...
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Drakonis »

I've linked the news bit to this thread
On Thursday 3rd February this week, IANA and the regional Internet registries, including the RIPE NCC, will hold an event in Miami, U.S., to make an announcement about the status of the IPv4 address pool. The event will be streamed live here at 2:30pm UK time/3:30pm CET
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by DeathStrike »

The internet is dead!!!! Long live IP v6. :lol:
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by -Prometheus- »

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Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 02:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

-Prometheus- wrote:
Ron2K wrote:APNIC currently has the highest burn rate of the regional registries, so those guys will be the first to run out of IPv4 addresses; AfriNIC has the slowest burn rate.
So for once we are in a better position than anybody else. Does this mean when we switch over the rest of the world would already have had to and things will go rather smooth?
Actually, the way I see it is that we'll be the last to be able to access IPv6-only content if we're too complacent.
-Prometheus- wrote:As was said previously with NAT a lot of protocols will break, but with most of us already behind some kind of NAT or blocked ports it is already broken in any case. So I don't see any noticeable effect for a long time.
Putting a lot of users behind NAT is not pretty. Back when Screamer had an ADSL offering, they couldn't figure out how to properly set up routing with their public IP addresses, so they stuck everyone behind a single public IP. The IP protocol allows for 65536 ports per node; when that's shared between a few thousand users, not only are people going to have no connectivity (all ports in use), but those that can connect are going to have horrific latency and packet loss issues due to the processing required on the router performing NAT. Let's just say that they no longer have an ADSL offering (mainly for other reasons, but this was almost certainly a contributing factor).

The Wikipedia article on NAT has a list of drawbacks that I suggest you read. ;)
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