The IPv6 migration thread

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Ron2K
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The IPv6 migration thread

Post by Ron2K »

EDIT: (2011-01-22) I'm going to make this the official IPv6 thread now. ;)
The Number Resource Organization (NRO) announced today that less than five percent of the world’s IPv4 addresses remain unallocated.

APNIC, the Regional Internet Registry for the Asia Pacific region, has been assigned two blocks of IPv4 addresses by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA).

This latest allocation means that the IPv4 free pool dipped below 10% in January, just nine months ago. Since then, over 200 million IPv4 addresses have been allocated from IANA to the Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).
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I feel that the migration to IPv6, painful though it might be, is being left a little late here...
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by japie_my_skapie »

But if I have Windows XP does it mean I need to upgrade to Windows 7 in order to browse the internet because XP doesn't support IP6?
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by rustypup »

IPv6 has been included in XP since SP1... :/...
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by japie_my_skapie »

rustypup wrote:IPv6 has been included in XP since SP1... :/...
I don't see the option in the network settings
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by rustypup »

you've installed the protocol?

you need the protocol?
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by japie_my_skapie »

I'm not sure what that means. Anyway, how will I know if my computer is compatible?
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Koko_Lion »

A quick google found this:

http://forums.techarena.in/networking-s ... 098260.htm

I don't have XP so can't test unfortunately :(
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by rustypup »

japie_my_skapie wrote:Anyway, how will I know if my computer is compatible?
when you have need of a public facing IP... panic... until then, try not to break your IP stack :/
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Stuart »

japie_my_skapie wrote:I'm not sure what that means. Anyway, how will I know if my computer is compatible?
It's probably not. In order to make your PC compatible for this, you have to collect the magic pixie dust from the summit of Mount Network in southwestern Australia. I'm guessing that you haven't done so, based on the fact that you oversized biceps appear free from the dragon bites that always accompany those who have climbed the dreaded Mount. Since you quite possibly have no clue as to where southwestern Australia is located, I suggest that you remain content with your old tech. You should probably uninstall all XP service packs just to be sure that your computer doesn't accidentally make itself compatible.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by doo_much »

Raait, it seems to be 'bait the idiot' day. :roll:

Short version please - is this going to interrupt my porn viewing on a 98SE box?

aka What does this mean for normal geezers like myself?
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by rustypup »

nothing... unless you require a block of public facing IPs... your router will need to understand IPv6 addressing, but your LAN will sit behind its NAT service...

the biggest pain behind the transition is that IPv6 doesn't understand IPv4... :/ (which means the rocket-scientist solution was replacement, not upgrade...)

this means that mid-change you will need to juggle 2 IPs, 2 DNS records and 2 DHCP servers for every network segment/machine... not to mention the fiddly changes required on every router when it comes to OSPF/RIP...

it's far beyond "painful"... it's borderline surreal...
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by doo_much »

Thanks. I'll fixate on the first word of that rather interesting mishmash of techno-babble and happily continue enjoying my state of uninformed bliss. ;)
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Nuke »

Biggest issue with IPv6 is that DNS is going to become a far bigger part of the network. Gone is the times where you quickly ping 192.168.1.1, no way anyone will remember 2001:0db8:85a3:008a:8500:8a2e:0370:7334. Other thing id that the IP overhead is becoming alot more, and that will quickly add bandwidth on stuff like VOIP calls.

Btw you can run 6to4 tunnels already to tie into the IPv6 world over the IPv4 cloud. RIPnG IS-IS and OSPFv3 it not really that much harder, and you can run it at the same time as as IPv4.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Sojourn »

Nuke wrote:Biggest issue with IPv6 is that DNS is going to become a far bigger part of the network. Gone is the times where you quickly ping 192.168.1.1, no way anyone will remember 2001:0db8:85a3:008a:8500:8a2e:0370:7334. Other thing id that the IP overhead is becoming alot more, and that will quickly add bandwidth on stuff like VOIP calls.

Btw you can run 6to4 tunnels already to tie into the IPv6 world over the IPv4 cloud. RIPnG IS-IS and OSPFv3 it not really that much harder, and you can run it at the same time as as IPv4.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Nuke »

Nothing wrong with DNS per se, it just the that it will make troubleshooting harder. Let say you can't ping your gateway, it can be either that the gateway is down, or that one(or more) hops after the gateway to the DNS server is down. It will make new techies nuts.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by ghondar »

I agree unless you are a service provider dont worry about it just yet, IPV6 is being used already for a while now in countries like Japan.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by RuadRauFlessa »

If the routing confuses you you have no right of calling yourself a network tech in the first place. Something like debugging where your route terminates should be an elementary thing else I won't pay you for sitting around trying to look intelligent.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Nuke »

Well one good thing about it, it will make the people that can do the job far less. Thus higher pay for those that can.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by ghondar »

not necessarily, people will still use subnet calculators :)
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by StarBound »

Hehe. Funny. Last year I asked how does IPv6 work and the reply I got was "It will give you a headache". 1 year later this happens.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Nuke »

ghondar wrote:not necessarily, people will still use subnet calculators :)
Never used one. The common ones I know, the rest I can quickly work out from that.

Anyway, was not really talking about setting a new thing up, I'm talking about troubleshooting. The average guy on a helpdesk is what I'm "concerned" about.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Ron2K »

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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Ron2K »

Network World wrote:The U.S. military is ratcheting up the pressure on its network suppliers to deploy IPv6 on their own networks and Web sites so they can gain operational experience and fix bugs in the products they are selling that support the next-generation Internet protocol.

For years, the Defense Department in public forums and private conversations has been pushing network hardware and software companies to use their own IPv6 products, a practice known as "eating your own dog food" in tech industry parlance.
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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

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Re: IPv4 unallocated address space drops below 5%

Post by Ron2K »

True - but when IANA runs out of addresses to allocate to the regional repositories, that's going to be a problem. AfriNIC's IP address burn rate is a lot slower than everyone else's, so we'll be the last region to run out of IPv4 addresses though.

Andrew Alson (CTO of TENET) made an informative post on MyBroadband, which I'm going to quote in its entirety:
There are some big differences between this situation and y2k, and some similarities at the same time. The y2k thing was a software bug, it was hyped, and no one was quite sure what would happen because of a date rollover. This is being hyped yes, but the difference here is, we know for a fact this is coming.

In 2005 Tony Hain (Cisco Systems) predicted a date around here, while Geoff Huston (www.potaroo.net) at that point was still talking about 2015 - 2018. Slowly, over the, the figures started to come closer and closer as to when we would run out. Tony seems to have been correct.

The simple fact is, the IPv4 address space *IS* running out, and unlike the Y2K bug where its some bug that may or may not affect various systems, this is something that was a.) predictable b.) something that cannot be denied or ignored.

Less than a month ago the remaining IPv4 address space in the central registry (controlled by IANA) was at around 5%, with the previous 5% having been used up in the space for around 10 months, since then, we've dropped another 3 odd percent. When we hit 5 remaining /8s left in the pool, those 5 blocks are automatically allocated under current policy, with one each of the 5 going to each of the regional registries (afrinic, ripe, lacnic, apnic, apan). At that point IANA runs out. The question as to how long before the regional registries then run out of space to allocate depends on their allocation rates. This could be anywhere from 3 months on the inside to 12 months on the outside.

So what happens when the RIR's can't allocate IPv4 space anymore? One of a couple of possibilities. Either, the companies needing IPv4 space decide to forget IPv4 and go IPv6 only (I'll talk about this in a second), or they attempt to buy IPv4 space through the backdoor (and money is already being offered in vast amounts for space this way, but there are problems with this as well that I will get to), or they attempt to further NAT their space (This isn't practical, and the rates of allocations over the last few years show that the growth of the internet is faster than can be dealt with via NAT, and NAT also breaks many modern day protocols).

So, lets look at the three options mentioned above.

If a site goes IPv6 only, anyone who isn't ready for IPv6 won't be able to reach the site without going through some kind of NAT or translation mechanism, again, this could break many things. This means that IPv4 only providers are going to start getting calls from their customers looking for IPv6, if they aren't ready, their customers will move to someone who is ready. The problem is that for to long, providers have looked at IPv6 as "Revenue Generation", instead of looking at it as "Revenue Retention".

That moves to the next option, the black market sale of IPv4 addresses. There are moves afoot inside the IETF and other places to stop people announcing space that doesn't belong to them. I've been reading some of the documents today on this, and personally, I'm not convinced that in a world of shortage of IPv4 addresses, these mechanisms will actually get adopted. After all, there have been talk about proper filtering of IPv4 space in BGP for years, and while its come some way to getting there, its far far from actually perfect, so many don't implement it at all. I personally believe the black market for IPv4 space is going to arrive, UNLESS the RIR's do something to legitimize the trade in IPv4 addresses (Something I have heard one of the RIR's is looking at, though I can't confirm that, since it is something I only heard the other day and haven't investigated). I do however know of people who have been offered up to a million dollars for a /16 worth of IPv4 space (64k IP addresses).

The next option is to NAT, if you NAT, your end to end connectivity goes for a ball of chalk, and what we're talking about isn't actually NAT that would have to happen, it would be PAT (Port Address translation). If you're doing PAT on a large scale a.) you have scalability issues with translating the number of packets involved, since high bandwidth connections can be moving millions of packets per second b.) Things like torrents and other mechanisms which require some end to end break c.) Other applications that are stateless in nature that require end to end also start to have problems (Good luck doing large scale NAT of VoIP type applications)

So, all in all, if you eliminate options 2 and 3, you're back at option 1, the ISPs need to wake up and do something about IPv6, fast.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts.
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