Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Viruses, hackers and crackers
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/02 ... anonymous/
HBGary Federal hacked and exposed by Anonymous
by Chester Wisniewski on February 7, 2011 | 13 Comments

Filed Under: Data loss, Featured, Law & order, Privacy, Social networks, Vulnerability

As the coin was tossed to kick off Superbowl XLV, Anonymous unleashed their anger at a security firm who had been investigating their membership.

HBGary Federal had been working on unmasking their identities in cooperation with an FBI investigation into the attacks against companies who were cutting off WikiLeaks access and financing.

Unlike the DDoS attacks for which Anonymous has made headlines in recent months, this incident involved true hacking skills. Anonymous compromised the HBGary website and replaced it with an image explaining their motivation. In addition to the defacement, they downloaded over 60,000 emails from the company and posted them on The Pirate Bay.

The Twitter account of HBGary's CEO, Aaron Barr, was also compromised and tweeted multiple offensive messages, as well as his home address, social security number and cell phone. According to Forbes, the LinkedIn accounts of other HBGary executives were compromised "in minutes."

Image

The research, which HBGary was preparing to sell to the FBI and which allegedly contains names, addresses and other information on Anonymous, was also posted as part of the attack. Anonymous maintains the information is largely bogus and says they are providing it publicly to prove it.

A writer for the DailyKos claims that, in addition to the other damages, Anonymous also deleted the firm's backups.

From a legal perspective, Anonymous had better hope they remain anonymous. The criminal activities outlined by their own bragging could get them some serious prison time in the US, UK and other countries with strict cybersecurity laws.

While we do not know the methods employed (perhaps Anonymous will tell us that as well) it is a good time to review the basics of security. Audit your own sites, never use the same password on more than one site and try to maintain separation of privileges to prevent the compromise of one account from affecting all of your services.

As of the time of this post hbgary.com is still offline.

Update: According to information from krebsonsecurity.com it appears HBGary was victimized by a combination of social engineering and a shared password between systems. Training employees on the proper verification of identity before exposing secure systems is an essential part of a corporate security program. Staff who feel they need to take any action when someone important like a company executive is apparently asking for help can create disastrous results. The CEO and founders must be subjected to the same rules as everyone else. Employees challenging their superiors should be praised rather than chastised when they follow the policy.
Ouch!
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by hamin_aus »

Now THATS tech-savvy
Image
wizardofid
Registered User
Posts: 10962
Joined: 03 Oct 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel 2500K
Motherboard: Gigabyte B75M D3H
Graphics card: inno3d Jericho 570GTX
Memory: 8Gig DDR3 1333mhz
Location: I'm so Goth, my wrists slit themselves.
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by wizardofid »

jamin_za wrote:Now THATS tech-savvy
I will bet a beer you will hit that :twisted: :P
Image
"In my weird politically incorrect hypothetically incoherent contradicting obscured world definitively maybe"
U_571
Registered User
Posts: 29
Joined: 20 Oct 2010, 20:44

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by U_571 »

It's really puzzling why so many people use the actual word passwordas their password. I have come across this type of silliness 4 times while repairing laptops this year. Wedding dates and birth dates are also very popular among uninformed users... even the so-called tech savvy ones.
-Prometheus-
Resident Drama Llama
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Mar 2008, 02:00
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by -Prometheus- »

........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 02:50, edited 1 time in total.
BBLounge - Broadband and Technology forum
Please like our facebook page
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by hamin_aus »

-Prometheus- wrote:Many times the password for the 'admin' account is 'password' by default. The installer is supposed to change this but it's surprising on how many publicly accessible systems this is still not done. What bothers me more is services like google asking for a recovery question. The defaults are usually easy to guess if you know the person well and they didn't put in something bogus.
Exactly why anyone who is "tech-savvy" should be able to pull this off, especially against people they know well.
Very few of the individuals in Anonymous are actually tech-pro.
Their strength is in numbers - they brute force, DDoS and mass-harass their way around the internet. None of these tactics require any real acumen, just numbers and the ability to follow simple instructions...
This is a group who when they organise and commit can make (Rick Astley, Julian Assange) or break (Sarah Palin, Aaron Barr) people.
Just be thankful they are usually only concerned about rigging polls to make their founder Time Magazines "man of the year", or to send Justin Bieber to North Korea :lol:
Image
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

:lol: I gotta love it when this happens :lol:.

The company responds...

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... mpaign=rss
Anonymous to security firm working with FBI: "You've angered the hive"
By Jacqui Cheng | Last updated about 15 hours ago

Internet vigilante group Anonymous turned its sights on security firm HBGary on Sunday evening in an attempt to "teach [HBGary] a lesson you'll never forget." The firm had been working with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to unmask members of Anonymous following the group's pro-WikiLeaks attacks on financial services companies, and was prepared to release its findings next week.

HBGary had been collecting information about Anonymous members after the group's DDoS attacks on companies perceived to be anti-WikiLeaks. The firm had targeted a number of senior Anonymous members, including a US-based member going by the name of Owen, as well as another member known as Q. In addition to working with the FBI (for a fee, of course), HBGary's CEO Aaron Barr was preparing to release the findings this month at a security conference in San Francisco.

Anonymous, however, felt that HBGary's findings were "nonsense" and immediately retaliated—but this time with something other than a DDoS attack. Instead, Anonymous compromised the company's website, gained access to the documents that HBGary had collected on its members, and published more than 60,000 of HBGary's e-mails to BitTorrent. They also vandalized Barr's Twitter and LinkedIn accounts with harsh messages and personal data about Barr, such as his social security number and home address.

"We’ve seen your internal documents, all of them, and do you know what we did? We laughed. Most of the information you’ve ‘extracted’ is publicly available via our IRC networks," Anonymous wrote in a statement posted to HBGary's site on Sunday. "So why can't you sell this information to the FBI like you intended? Because we're going to give it to them for free."

HBGary cofounder and security researcher Greg Hoglund confirmed on Sunday evening that the latest attacks were sophisticated compared to the group's past shenanigans. "They broke into one of HBGary’s servers that was used for tech support, and they got e-mails through compromising an insecure Web server at HBGary Federal," Hoglund told KrebsonSecurity. "They used that to get the credentials for Aaron, who happened to be an administrator on our e-mail system, which is how they got into everything else. So it’s a case where the hackers break in on a non-important system, which is very common in hacking situations, and leveraged lateral movement to get onto systems of interest over time."

As for the 60,000 e-mails that are now available to anyone with a torrent client, Hoglund argued that their publication was irresponsible and would cost HBGary millions of dollars in losses due to the exposure of proprietary information. "Before this, what these guys were doing was technically illegal, but it was in direct support of a government whistle blower. But now, we have a situation where they’re committing a federal crime, stealing private data and posting it on a torrent," Hoglund said.

It's unlikely that Anonymous cares about what Hoglund thinks, though. Several of the company's e-mails indicated that Barr was looking for ways to spin its info about Anonymous as a pro-HBGary PR move, which Anonymous took special issue with. The group warned HBGary that it had "charged into the Anonymous hive" and now the company is "being stung."

"It would appear that security experts are not expertly secured," Anonymous wrote.
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by hamin_aus »

Anakha56 wrote:The group warned HBGary that it had "charged into the Anonymous hive" and now the company is "being stung."
Stung by /b/'s :lol:
Image
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... mpaign=rss
How one man tracked down Anonymous—and paid a heavy price
By Nate Anderson | Last updated about 4 hours ago

Aaron Barr believed he had penetrated Anonymous. The loose hacker collective had been responsible for everything from anti-Scientology protests to pro-Wikileaks attacks on MasterCard and Visa, and the FBI was now after them. But matching their online identities to real-world names and locations proved daunting. Barr found a way to crack the code.

In a private e-mail to a colleague at his security firm HBGary Federal, which sells digital tools to the US government, the CEO bragged about his research project.

"They think I have nothing but a heirarchy based on IRC [Internet Relay Chat] aliases!" he wrote. "As 1337 as these guys are suppsed to be they don't get it. I have pwned them! :)"

But had he?
had a very funny IRC chat log as well :lol:.
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

How Anon broke into HBGary:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... mments-bar
Anonymous speaks: the inside story of the HBGary hack
By Peter Bright | Last updated about 17 hours ago

It has been an embarrassing week for security firm HBGary and its HBGary Federal offshoot. HBGary Federal CEO Aaron Barr thought he had unmasked the hacker hordes of Anonymous and was preparing to name and shame those responsible for co-ordinating the group's actions, including the denial-of-service attacks that hit MasterCard, Visa, and other perceived enemies of WikiLeaks late last year.

When Barr told one of those he believed to be an Anonymous ringleader about his forthcoming exposé, the Anonymous response was swift and humiliating. HBGary's servers were broken into, its e-mails pillaged and published to the world, its data destroyed, and its website defaced. As an added bonus, a second site owned and operated by Greg Hoglund, owner of HBGary, was taken offline and the user registration database published.

Over the last week, I've talked to some of those who participated in the HBGary hack to learn in detail how they penetrated HBGary's defenses and gave the company such a stunning black eye—and what the HBGary example means for the rest of us mere mortals who use the Internet.
... I am speechless that a security firm had that many vulnerabilities...
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
Bladerunner
Registered User
Posts: 14338
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 02:00
Processor: i386DX Sooper
Motherboard: A blue one
Graphics card: A red one
Memory: Hard drive
Location: On a Möbius strip
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Bladerunner »

Anonymous might normally be a ragtag bunch of skiddies and teenagers, but there are experts involved too. It's wise not to provoke them; even skiddies have luck at guessing passwords.
If I weren't insane: I couldn't be so brilliant! - The Joker
-Prometheus-
Resident Drama Llama
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Mar 2008, 02:00
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by -Prometheus- »

........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 03:37, edited 1 time in total.
BBLounge - Broadband and Technology forum
Please like our facebook page
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

-Prometheus- wrote:Anonymous looks more like a bunch of people who tend to hang around at the same places and not an organised group of people who know who each other are. So there can be experts involved at any time. To test this just do something big that Anonymous would normally do and claim it was Anonymous, if nobody speaks up you know it's the case.
2 Things and I imagine its because I am running low on sleep but...

1: What are you going on about? Up until "To test this ..." I have no idea what you said...

2: I would love to see someone do a huge job, make a claim it was Anon and then get buried alive when Anon says it was not us but this dude we just nuked to hell and back...
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
-Prometheus-
Resident Drama Llama
Posts: 967
Joined: 05 Mar 2008, 02:00
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by -Prometheus- »

........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Last edited by -Prometheus- on 04 Apr 2011, 03:37, edited 1 time in total.
BBLounge - Broadband and Technology forum
Please like our facebook page
Anakha56
Forum Administrator
Posts: 22136
Joined: 14 Jun 2004, 02:00
Processor: Ryzen 1700K
Motherboard: Asus X370
Graphics card: Asus 1060 Strix
Memory: 16GB RAM
Location: Where Google says

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Anakha56 »

-Prometheus- wrote: I think I was pretty clear, they are not an organised group as the word "group" would normally be applied. They have even said there are no leaders. They seem to be able to organise themselves pretty quickly when the need arises but probably only because they have a like minded interest. I doubt they all know who everybody in the socalled "group" is.
Like I said its my lack of sleep that is affecting my reading skills :P.

Will respond tomorrow afternoon, none of my responses make sense right now... :(
JUSTICE, n A commodity which is a more or less adulterated condition the State sells to the citizen as a reward for his allegiance, taxes and personal service.
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Prime »

They are a bunch of immature brats who need to learn to grow the **** up!

if no one gave them publicity, they'd have disbanded within months.
Bladerunner
Registered User
Posts: 14338
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 02:00
Processor: i386DX Sooper
Motherboard: A blue one
Graphics card: A red one
Memory: Hard drive
Location: On a Möbius strip
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Bladerunner »

Prime wrote:They are a bunch of immature brats who need to learn to grow the **** up!

if no one gave them publicity, they'd have disbanded within months.
And your post indicates that you're handling this very maturely. :wink:

It's not about publicity. Many of the "projects" exist because tens of thousands of people believe in the same thing. The destruction of the cult of scientology, freedom of the internet, free of MPAA/RIAA and their goons, etc.

In some of these "projects" I participated, not one person mentioned publicity or the press. It is a common goal we all share.
If I weren't insane: I couldn't be so brilliant! - The Joker
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by hamin_aus »

Bladerunner wrote:It's not about publicity. Many of the "projects" exist because tens of thousands of people believe in the same thing. The destruction of the cult of scientology, freedom of the internet, free of MPAA/RIAA and their goons, etc.
These projects are few and far between...
For every worthy cause, there are hundreds of childish stunts, like online poll rigging, phishing, hacking, fraud that serve no more purpose than to amuse anonymous.
I guess the question is do the few arguably good things they do justify all the shenanigans?

Also, rules 1 and 2....
Image
Bladerunner
Registered User
Posts: 14338
Joined: 04 Sep 2004, 02:00
Processor: i386DX Sooper
Motherboard: A blue one
Graphics card: A red one
Memory: Hard drive
Location: On a Möbius strip
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Bladerunner »

jamin_za wrote: For every worthy cause, there are hundreds of childish stunts, like online poll rigging, phishing, hacking, fraud that serve no more purpose than to amuse anonymous.
Online poll rigging is rather amusing. :lol:
If I weren't insane: I couldn't be so brilliant! - The Joker
User avatar
hamin_aus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18363
Joined: 28 Aug 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i7 3770K
Motherboard: GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
Graphics card: Galax GTX1080
Memory: 32GB G.Skill Ripjaws
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by hamin_aus »

Oh, I agree, it's hilarious.

But just imagine if something were to happen to Justin Bieber as a result of anonymous sending him to Best Korea?

The consequences will never be the same ;)
Image
Hman
Registered User
Posts: 28520
Joined: 06 Oct 2003, 02:00
Processor: Intel i5 650
Motherboard: Asus P7H55-M LX
Graphics card: Gigabyte 7850 2GB OC
Memory: 8GB Kingston DDR3
Location: In my skin
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Hman »

jamin_za wrote:But just imagine if something were to happen to Justin Bieber as a result of anonymous sending him to Best Korea?
We can only hope and dream.
"Every thinking man is a drinking man."


Member of the Barberton Tigers
KALSTER
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5439
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 02:08

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by KALSTER »

But just imagine if something were to happen to Justin Bieber as a result of anonymous sending him to Best Korea?
They send back a clone imprinted with the first three laws of cloning: 1)Kill 2)KILL 3)KILL! :?:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
Monty
Forum Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 05 Feb 2004, 02:00
Processor: Intel i5-4690K @ 4.5GHZ
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus VII Formula
Graphics card: ASUS GTX970 Strix
Memory: 4 x 4GB Corsair Dominators
Location: Messing with your Mind
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Monty »

KALSTER wrote:
But just imagine if something were to happen to Justin Bieber as a result of anonymous sending him to Best Korea?
They send back a clone imprinted with the first three laws of cloning: 1)Kill 2)KILL 3)KILL! :?:
They elect him Vice Person in charge, hack the world and broadcast his voice all over it
Art Williams wrote:I'm not telling you it is going to be easy, I'm telling you it's going to be worth it.
KALSTER
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5439
Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 02:08

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by KALSTER »

^^ 4)KILL!!!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
Intel i5 2500; AsRock Z77 Extreme 4; Asus GTX580; 4x 2GB DDR3 1333; Intel 520 240GB SSD + 2x WD 3TB + 2TB Samsung; Samsung 22X DVD/RW; 23" LG W2343T-PF; Huntkey 700W
User avatar
Prime
Registered User
Posts: 27729
Joined: 01 Mar 2004, 02:00
Location: Getting into trouble
Contact:

Re: Security Firm vs Anonymous: FIGHT!

Post by Prime »

jamin_za wrote:
Bladerunner wrote:It's not about publicity. Many of the "projects" exist because tens of thousands of people believe in the same thing. The destruction of the cult of scientology, freedom of the internet, free of MPAA/RIAA and their goons, etc.
These projects are few and far between...
For every worthy cause, there are hundreds of childish stunts, like online poll rigging, phishing, hacking, fraud that serve no more purpose than to amuse anonymous.
I guess the question is do the few arguably good things they do justify all the shenanigans?

Also, rules 1 and 2....
Actually is the question is, does breaking the law because you believe its a worthy cause, make you any better than those you are fighting against?
Post Reply