Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

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Anakha56
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

SykomantiS wrote:Right... Back on topic :?
jamin_za wrote: If you thought the F-22 was a death-trp, wait till you see the knock-off the Vhinese made
The article doesn't explain why the Chinese knock-off would be worse off?
Remember your faulty toys that read "Made in China"? If I had a choice between the two I would fly the US version every time but then I cant fly a paper airplane so I know nothing :P.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by SykomantiS »

So it's simply the premise that something is bound to go wrong?
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

For me that is my conclusion because I had a lot of faulty toys from China :P.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by GreyWolf »

Anakha56 wrote:Remember your faulty toys that read "Made in China"? If I had a choice between the two I would fly the US version every time but then I cant fly a paper airplane so I know nothing :P.
Have you ever experienced an American car?

Now that I think about it, if militray aircraft were the same quality as the cars made in the same country I would prefer a SAAB Grippen to any other jet in the world... That is until the Germans made their own plane
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by KALSTER »

A 藍光播放器 branded Blu Ray player is still better than a German-made CD player.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Ron2K »

Probably the most appropriate thread for this: Emirates upgraded the equipment on OMDB-FALE to B77W as of yesterday.

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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/03/us/po ... .html?_r=1
Oxygen Problems on F-22 Elude the Air Force’s Fixes
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: July 2, 2012

JOINT BASE LANGLEY-EUSTIS, Va. — Capt. Jeff Haney was at 51,000 feet on a night flight above Alaska in November 2010 when the oxygen system in his F-22 Raptor fighter jet shut down, restricting his ability to breathe as he plummeted faster than the speed of sound into the tundra below. His plane burned a crater into the ice, froze 40 feet beneath the surface and was not fully recovered until the spring thaw.

Captain Haney’s death unnerved the elite community of F-22 pilots, as did a series of episodes over the next 18 months in which an alarming number of them experienced symptoms of hypoxia, or oxygen deprivation. The Air Force grounded the Raptor, the jewel of its fleet, but could not find anything wrong, so it put the jet back in the air — only to have the episodes increase. In May, two seasoned pilots took the extraordinary step of telling CBS News’s “60 Minutes” that they refused to fly the plane.

Last month, a breakthrough seemed to come at last. Investigators believed that a malfunctioning pressure vest was restricting pilots’ breathing and that narrow oxygen hoses were leaking and not delivering enough air. Pilots began flying without the vest, and, buoyed by three months without an episode, Air Force officials told the news media that they might be close to a solution.

But last week, as Air Force officials escorted a reporter and a photographer to the Langley flight line to watch F-22s roaring on and off the runway for an ostensible good-news story, it happened again. A pilot pulled his emergency oxygen handle sometime after landing because of what the Air Force characterized as “discomfort” from intermittent air flow into the pilot’s mask during flight. The Air Force is investigating but so far has said little.

...
Wow still unable to solve the problem...
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Hman »

lol
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

www.wired.com wrote:How to Defeat the Air Force’s Powerful Stealth Fighter

The fast, stealthy F-22 Raptor is “unquestionably” the best air-to-air fighter in the arsenal of the world’s leading air force. That’s what outgoing Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz wrote in 2009.

Three years later, a contingent of German pilots flying their latest Typhoon fighter have figured out how to shoot down the Lockheed Martin-made F-22 in mock combat. The Germans’ tactics, revealed in the latest Combat Aircraft magazine, represent the latest reality check for the $400-million-a-copy F-22, following dozens of pilot blackouts, and possibly a crash, reportedly related to problems with the unique g-force-defying vests worn by Raptor pilots.

In mid-June, 150 German airmen and eight twin-engine, non-stealthy Typhoons arrived at Eielson Air Force Base in Alaska for an American-led Red Flag exercise involving more than 100 aircraft from Germany, the U.S. Air Force and Army, NATO, Japan, Australia and Poland. Eight times during the two-week war game, individual German Typhoons flew against single F-22s in basic fighter maneuvers meant to simulate a close-range dogfight.

The results were a surprise to the Germans and presumably the Americans, too. “We were evenly matched,” Maj. Marc Gruene told Combat Aircraft’s Jamie Hunter. The key, Gruene said, is to get as close as possible to the F-22 … and stay there. “They didn’t expect us to turn so aggressively.”

Gruene said the Raptor excels at fighting from beyond visual range with its high speed and altitude, sophisticated radar and long-range AMRAAM missiles. But in a slower, close-range tangle — which pilots call a “merge” — the bigger and heavier F-22 is at a disadvantage. “As soon as you get to the merge … the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22,” Gruene said.


This is not supposed to be the sort of reaction the F-22 inspires. For years the Air Force has billed the Raptor as an unparalleled aerial combatant. Even former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who in 2009 famously cut F-22 production to just 187 copies, called the stealth jet “far and away the best air-to-air fighter ever produced” and predicted “it will ensure U.S. command of the skies for the next generation.” And it’s slowly getting taken off the probation it incurred after seemingly suffocating pilots.

Admittedly, advanced air forces plan to do most of their fighting at long range and avoid the risky, close-in tangle — something Gruene acknowledged in his comments to Combat Aircraft. But there’s evidence that, in reality, most air combat occurs at close distance, despite air arms’ wishful thinking. That could bode poorly for the F-22′s chances in a future conflict.

In a 2008 study (big file!), the Air Force-funded think tank RAND warned against assuming long-range missiles will work. RAND looked at 588 air-to-air shoot-downs since the 1950s and counted just 24 that occurred with the attacker firing from beyond visual range. Historically, American long-range air-to-air missiles have been 90-percent less effective than predicted, RAND asserted.

Despite the historical facts, there persists in Air Force circles “a hypothetical vision of ultra-long range, radar-based, air-to-air combat,” to quote air power skeptic Pierre Sprey, co-designer of the brute-simple F-16 and A-10 warplanes.

It remains to be seen whether the Raptor and its AMRAAM missiles can reverse these trends. If long-range tactics fail, the F-22 force could very well find itself fighting up close with the latest fighters from China, Russia and other rival nations. And if the Germans’ experience is any indication, that’s the kind of battle the vaunted F-22s just might lose.

Update, July 31: Some commenters claim the Red Flag exercise is not indicative of the way the F-22 would fight in the real world. In an actual shooting war, an F-22′s opponent “won’t make it to visual range,” one reader asserted. The Raptor’s stealth would allow it to sneak up high and fast and kill the enemy from long range using an AMRAAM missile, commenters insist.

But that’s assuming two things. One, that the rules of engagement in a future conflict will allow to the Air Force to shoot down targets without visually identifying them — a risky assumption given the world’s increasingly crowded airspace. Two, that the AMRAAM even works. Missile-maker Raytheon hasn’t delivered a new AMRAAM in two years after it was found that the weapon’s rocket motor doesn’t work in a cold environment, which is exactly where the high-flying F-22 is most at home.

Even when the AMRAAM functions as designed, it’s still not a reliable long-range killer. Since the AMRAAM entered front-line service in 1992, it has been used by Air Force F-15s and F-16s in at least nine aerial battles resulting in the destruction of nine Iraqi and Serbian aircraft. But that’s pretty much all we know. Public data “does not include the number of shots taken or the engagement range,” Air Force Lt. Col. Patrick Higby wrote in a 2005 paper.

Higby, for his part, concluded that at least four of the AMRAAM kills occurred within visual range. In the balance, long-range missiles are not as effective as the Air Force has long hoped, Higby wrote. “Air-to-air combat has not transformed into a long-range slugfest of technology.”

Given that even the F-22 could find itself in a close-range dogfight, the stealthy jet has other disadvantages besides its heavy weight and large size. Technical problems forced the Air Force to omit a helmet-mounted sight from the Raptor. This key piece of gear allows pilots in other planes — including the German Typhoon — to lock missiles onto a target merely by looking at it. “We had a Raptor salad for lunch,” one German pilot quipped after using his jet’s helmet sight and maneuverability to get the best of an F-22 over Alaska.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

:lol: Wonder what the pilots thought when they were getting gunned down in a "superior" aircraft in those tests? Must have made for a good laugh.

Could they not use drones to identify the long range targets and then engage based on that feedback? So if you are flying into a war zone deploy some stealth drones to scout the area and identify the targets. Hell get the drones to plant a transmitter on the enemy plane and then the radar on the F-22 will pick that signal up and help direct the missiles to the intended target. Could that idea even work or am I going to futuristic on the whole thinking?
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

Who needs drones?
You could have a long range AWACS with active radar pinging planes from well out of LRM range and relaying the info back to the Raptors.

Altho this news is making waves, it's hardly surprising. The Typhoon is a plane specifically built for tight turns and dogfights, it's no surprise it is on par with the Raptor in a dogfight.

If you look at the 4th gen planes, an F-16 can do the same with an F-15 - and the F-16 is throw-away plane while the F-15 was the pre-eminent air superiority fighter of its day.

It all boils down to fight doctrine.
If the US policy is to make a visual confirmation on a plane before firing, the Typhoons chances of winning start at about 30%, given that the Raptor will most times see the Typhoon first and can approach from a vector that is not in the Typhoon pilots sight
It can come in from 3, 6 or 9 o'clock and make a visual and fire.
Even from a few km's away the radar on the Typhoon wont pick up the Raptor (citation needed)
The Typhoon pilot will have to see the Raptor before it gets a lock and can fire.
If all goes well for the Typhoon at that point, it's more or less even-stevens. But at any time prior to that, the advantage is still with the Raptor.
Assuming it's pilot hasn't asphyxiated from a faulty G-suite ;)

With all the bad press the Raptor has gotten recently, these games are, I think, calculated to be in the Typhoons favour. They did the exact same thing n the 90's during war games with the Indian air force.
They put their F-15's in mock-combat situations that the USAF would almost never find themselves in.
That is a fight with another plane or group of planes where both sides were evenly matched in terms of intel and the rules of engagement were WVR only.
The F-15's only won about half of the engagements against the Indian Su-30's and the hoo-ha surrounding that was the final push the USAF needed for their 5th gen fighter program.

Now they are doing the exact same thing, using the Typhoon.
Scaremongering to ensure that the Raptor and Lightning programs stay funded and don't go the way of the Comanche attack helicopter.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

http://gizmodo.com/5931419/these-f+15-e ... t-any-time

Awesome wallpaper if you follow the link...
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

I don't see any image large enough t be wallpaper material on your link :?:

Also that blogger is smoking something.... the F-14 was the plane the Robotech fighters were modelled on, not the F-15 :P
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

Click on the image in the article and you get a bigger one. Granted it's not 16:9 size but it still looks good.

As for Robotech, I wouldn't know.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

Anakha56 wrote:As for Robotech, I wouldn't know.
GTFO of this thread :P
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

jamin_za wrote:
Anakha56 wrote:As for Robotech, I wouldn't know.
GTFO of this thread :P
:lol:

Would these allow me back in? Some of them might be big on size for wallpapers hence the reason for links and not img tagged ;).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n03pkeqart6gr ... 242f5f.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f93yweygzkg1o ... 74dbfd.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7cgribra2zl5 ... 963a58.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s5xbpj3r6ufe ... 3354f5.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/axcylf7ri5c1f ... 86f750.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qktcmmpfckrkz ... 59d1fd.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/64ld7z8lufdjx ... 81b479.jpg

;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qgf86olo8j9x ... 8df8b2.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oasemk9z0xnxt ... 93e3bd.jpg

Have a few more coming in so keep a eye on this post... ;)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gvfehj5x7g5c ... 057a2.jpeg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1idky00wxsale ... bec341.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpy19kx0ougli ... 95616e.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kgbwligj3629c ... 65dbfa.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jgigq9uamhb7e ... 928763.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkdwf5agysxbl ... 86c33b.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1toba97s20d2g ... bc6cdb.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqzydnix21h8o ... b145a0.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvfx5mcs8mnhv ... 2deca4.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5hcgdywivk415 ... 5173d7.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpz7ko24tnlqf ... 9d523c.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/by4fqqgscbzl6 ... a0f92b.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6wk1rfqxpyen ... 053f89.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qli1at8iaer0w ... 90de66.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgb4na23zef7h ... 8b88c4.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dyzmqr3tv695q ... 68a60a.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gfx3r7og9bx7g ... 06335c.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ur7regzvdr5en ... 8ad45e.jpg

*edit*

thats all of them ;).
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

You have redeemed yourself, young padawan :D
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Hman »

Nice pics Anky, I approve.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Anakha56 »

Not sure if I posted this before or not...

http://navyvets.com/photo/super-hornet-detroit

Follow the link for a awesome fly by from a F-18.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by Ron2K »

Linking elsewhere, but here's the result of putting some torpedoes and missiles on a B738...
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by GreyWolf »

jamin_za wrote:
www.wired.com wrote:How to Defeat the Air Force’s Powerful Stealth Fighter
This is so delicious I can hardly contain my giddiness.

"F22 will kill everything because long range, stealth blah blah blah" - certain emigrant forum member.

Looks like a Mig- 15 can take the F22 on and win!
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

Let your failure at trolling forever serve as a caution to would-be's.
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

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http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09 ... Stories%29
Engine Woes Could Ground China’s Stealth Armada
By David AxeEmail Author September 18, 2012 | 5:15 pm

China’s newest stealth fighter prototype is made in the People’s Republic and could pose a challenge to U.S. air power. But it’s got an Achilles’ heel: Its engines are Russian imports.

Without reliable, homemade motors, China’s planned stealth armada will continue relying on Russian-made engines that aren’t always adequate — and in any event can be withheld by a wary Moscow.

“China’s inability to domestically mass-produce modern high-performance jet engines at a consistently high-quality standard is an enduring Achilles’ heel of the Chinese military aerospace sector,” wrote Andrew Erickson, a Naval War College analyst. Erickson chalked up the engine gap to a lack of standardization, cooperation and quality control in Chinese industry.

The new J-21, which apparently hasn’t flown yet, first appeared over the weekend in photos snapped at the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation’s factory airfield in northeast China. One high-res pic clearly featured the twin-tail fighter’s two engines. “A good early guess is that the engines are Klimov RD-93s,” ace aviation reporter Bill Sweetman concluded.

...
Follow the link for further reading and a pic of the fighter.

/Have some backgrounds for you hamin if you are interested ;).
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

Post by hamin_aus »

China's "Stealth Armada" you say? LOL!

They have one non-working prototype.

The US at least has 100 non-working prototypes :lol:
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Re: Worlds most kick-@$$ aircraft!

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